2024 State of the genepool discussion.

[PetePrice]

Exactly it’s self explanatory the obvious divergence the Y brings into the equation thus adding to hybrid vigor…. Horse to water buddy; put the work in yourself to find out what else he does, you’ll be amazed !

Well what are all these magical things the Y brings that are exclusive to the Y? You've made the statement and provided vigor... What else?

 

[linde]

One thing that I HAVE learned in all of the yrs of growing and breeding is there is always a sacrifice when cross breeding. There's a give and take for everything in the cross that you're benefiting from. Oh man this dope tastes so much better than before. But wait...shit! Now the plant doesn't ripen until end of October outdoors and it gets powdery mildew. And I live in Northern Michigan. Damn it. I know first hand cuz I've wrecked damn fine strains doing exactly that. Always always self the plant before you try creating unobtainable quality by cross breeding.

 

[PetePrice]

seed market as we know it is gonna collapse

nearly everything is gonna be tc clones for dirt cheap and most people aren't gonna grow seeds so it'll be even more homogeneous than it is now



what's that old Tom Hill post lol... "weed is gonna go the way of the strawberry"

I don't think that is what he was getting at, I remember he stated that we shouldn't look at breeding cannabis like corn and instead should treat it like strawberries ie propergated asexually by finding those standouts now where those standouts come from I don't think to him was of of importance

 

[led05]

One thing that I HAVE learned in all of the yrs of growing and breeding is there is always a sacrifice when cross breeding. There's a give and take for everything in the cross that you're benefiting from. Oh man this dope tastes so much better than before. But wait...shit! Now the plant doesn't ripen until end of October outdoors and it gets powdery mildew. And I live in Northern Michigan. Damn it. I know first hand cuz I've wrecked damn fine strains doing exactly that. Always always self the plant before you try creating unobtainable quality by cross breeding.

We live in similar climates, I wonder whom gets more snow

The common assumption that cross breeding ends in worse is crazy to me (different of course), if you want the exact same; clone it, period, IF you've got a lab do some TC.... selfing drifts fast, even in the S1

When crossing out properly vetted parents your F1 should be better than either parent for many attributes and overall, that's the entire point.

I've gotta run, way too much harvesting & processing to be done.... Thx for the convo

 

[PetePrice]

We live in similar climates, I wonder whom gets more snow

The common assumption that cross breeding ends in worse is crazy to me (different of course), if you want the exact same; clone it, period, IF you've got a lab do some TC.... selfing drifts fast, even in the S1

When crossing out properly vetted parents your F1 should be better than either parent for many attributes and overall, that's the entire point.

I've gotta run, way too much harvesting & processing to be done.... Thx for the convo

Yet the F1 cross outs don't bare out... You're in lala land if you think so, still waiting on the magic the Y brings??? You gonna leave that hanging...

 

[eastcoastjoe]

You've made the statement and provided vigor... What else?

I’m not sure there is much else.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

Testing numerous relationships within same genetics isolating differences b/w M:F & F:F F1 relationships, Regs always have more vigor, perhaps even too much when a pure F1; it’s not hard to understand why the Y adds vigor, it’s additional differentiation b/w the parents, it’s a simple math equation - it doesn’t mean unrelated Fem F1’s can’t show good hybrid vigor, just not as pure as a true M:F F1

PS: don’t forget it’s easy to flip males & monky @ too buddy, ethephon

But aside from vigor, I haven’t really seen anyone make a good argument as to what makes traditional breeding superior.

I’m not really directing that question towards you specifically. I guess it’s really more directed at Charles because he kind of claimed that in another thread.

 

[silverhazefiend]

Let’s get to the real questions at hand

When and why did Sensi change there genetics
When and why did Mr nice change there genetics

If you say there the same from the originals im gonna ignore you .. even if these where f15s by now there not the same genetics

Cali connection releasing all them “ogs” with diff moms and same dads using real og names during there hay days got more fake Sfv and Tahoe cuts out here then ever

Rez releasing sour d ibl watering down the sour market during its hay day causing mass confusion with seed cuts 10 years later

Loompa calling his OG headband during the headband hype days and dna releasing headband seeds causing more confusion

Why have seeds made by accident (gg4) been better than seeds made on purpose in the last 10 years

If GSC was bred on purpose (eye roll) where tf is the other phenos only other known pheno is ogkb which was found in a bag of weed

Honestly we have some really really good strains made on purpose but all the accident ones and bagseeds from the 90s ( og and chems sours) hazes etc are still king so nature has a way of sorting shit out .. we got Runtz from the new age and it’s fire new things will come even by accident

 

[eastcoastjoe]

Pollen is a good indicator for an easy mental experiment… why does a true male release 10-100X pollen vs what a reversed fem does? Now continue that to a pure F1 hybrid relationship, the Y brings something the X never could, many things - it’s really simple to understand if your not hedged one way or the other into an argument

PS: I have lots of Fem & Reg pollen stored in my freezers at all times, JIC

It could just be that pollen is produced in excess to ensure survival ? I understand the male brings half the genome to the party but in terms of the progeny, I don’t see what makes it superior to that of a reversed female parent ? If I’m missing something please tell me, I’m open to new ideas.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

but all the accident ones and bagseeds from the 90s ( og and chems sours) hazes etc are still king

Thai right here was my argument in another thread where the idea was that fems are destroying the genepool.
To your point , If that were true, why are all the old cultivars like Chem, sour, and Og still king ? No one can answer that

 

[linde]

Let’s get to the real questions at hand

When and why did Sensi change there genetics
When and why did Mr nice change there genetics

Simple answer....when they lost their original mother's and breeding stock. Serious Seeds lost their original stuff. Ak47. Bubblegum. Brothers Grimm lost original Cindy 99. Subcool...well look what happened to his original stuff. House fires. Cops. Narcs. Thieves. People lose their original mother's and males. Then we have the whole clone drift subject with mother's getting old. Losing vigour and flavor. Contributing factors why dope generally gets worse and worse.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

Then we have the whole clone drift subject with mother's getting old. Losing vigour and flavor. Contributing factors why dope generally gets worse and worse.

Drift isn’t a thing with clones. Maybe over time the health can decline due to pathogens. But that doesn’t change the genetics.
If you make seeds today with the same mother and father, you can do it 10 years later and nothing will change

 

[Thcvhunter]

There are people that have preserved things not to go forward but to keep the past. I'm one of them. I've shared mostly everything I have unless I've been told to do so otherwise. And even those plants have been shared to an extent.

I'll say this. Some of the cuts I've had possession of that I haven't been able to talk much about is because I don't want to ruin the reputation of the person I sourced it from. A tight lip goes a really long way in this crazy community. There are some people that are magnets for genetics, and those guys have people they trust to keep things around. It's not about hoarding or not sharing, it's about playing your part in the big scheme of things.

A lot of people on this board are running a cut or cuts that came from me indirectly. I share, just not in the conventional way.

This.
There's cash croppers then theres stewards.

People looking to cash out can firstly afford to pay for what cuts they want. Second, they can easily tarnish both the cut itself and the people supplying them. Just look at how the Chinese cartel trashed Bubba Kush by growing it poorly to make more money.

Then there's stewards who see something other than the cash value of a room full of cuts.
10 yrs ago, anyone in the preservation circle got whatever they wanted, for free. But, the cashcroppers pretending to be stewards fucked that up for everyone.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

When crossing out properly vetted parents your F1 should be better than either parent for many attributes and overall, that's the entire point.

If it were only that fucking easy.

Until you mix and match, you never know.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

... original Cindy 99. Subcool...well look what happened to his original stuff.

The old fucking dinosaur mutters to himself... "Not going to respond, not going to respond, do _not_ respond.... nothing _original_... Vic High's work... ripped off... same with super soil..."

From someone who was there and participated in the BCGA website, I have a vastly different opinion and perspective.

 

[kro-magnon]

I think there were many more skunk renditions than the supposed one and only that Sam made. I think we give that guy more credit than he deserves. In his own words he said his skunk was sweet and not roadkill. Well ok there you have it right from the horses mouth. The skunks I've grown up with in mid 80s to early 90s in northern Michigan were indica skunks. So definitely not Sam's creation. My father grew them outdoors at 45th parallel. Harvested mid to end of Sept at 45th parallel. Roadkill as hell Indica not 75% sativa. Definitely not Sam's creation.

Because it was certainly some type of Afghan called skunk because of their smell.Not the same cross developped by Sam The Skunkman.
The small network of passionate growers, breeders has never been bigger, all your strains are available with enough research;

 

[kro-magnon]

This isn't a seasonal or lighting thing for me, I've only recently made the change to led from hid, with hid I noticed the same thing summer and winter and yeah it's the same with led
It's summer here atm and purple is already showing at 5 wks
View attachment 19045898
View attachment 19045897
It's just the start of it.

It might be colder where you live compared to my place but that's the LED influence for most of the purple.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

The old fucking dinosaur mutters to himself... "Not going to respond, not going to respond, do _not_ respond.... nothing _original_... Vic High's work... ripped off... same with super soul..."

From someone who was there and participated in the BCGA website, I have a vastly different opinion and perspective.

You took Nevil’s work and made it your own. Judging by your own standards, how are you any different?

 

[led05]

If it were only that fucking easy.

Until you mix and match, you never know.

True - Some are worse, some similar some better, choose the best, if it’s a fail move on, of course you’ve gotta test the progeny…

GL y’all & happy growing & chucking

 

[kro-magnon]

Im not really saying leds cause it or at least not only leds. Afaik the photopigment causing purple is Anthocyanin. Same as in red and purple stems. One main way of getting it happening is to give intense radiation without enough high temps (googlable as high irradiation response, or may high irradiance reaction, cant quite remember ) Also believe you can get the purpling of stems with too cold water. Theres a lot of noise about nutes and P i think, which may well be aswell. Not seen this in a clear cut way myself, only that purple may come when the plants not quite happy.

We typically see it around time of fade/flush but its probably already in the leaves already; when the plant starts to fade and remove chlorophyll from the leaves the green wont cover it up anymore; you get a purple/yellow fade with really nice fade/fall colors. Sometimes it appears as black leaves, suppose thats when youre not getting out all the green. Our animal cakes does this even if we flush the shit out of them. But they are always naturally dark green.

You can see similar in outdoor plants and leaves if your in good outdoor light conditions, youll always find more purpling on the side that gets more sun in the summer, and you see if in fall leaves.

Theres probably other genetic mechanisms playing into this, especially with regards to buds. Weve never had those fully purple buds from this, only purple sugar leaves. Main thing is that i dont think it is a one thing phenomenon; probably parallel processes both in leaves and buds.

We saw rarely under HID but quite consistently under led, as long as we flush properly. UV irradiation seems to get this going a bit easier.

Anyways were getting of topic with purple here, its not really something super relevant to current genepool.
Best vibes and peace

When I was growing outdoor the part of the plants who got purple were the part less exposed to the light not the opposite, there is some pictures of a few outdoor plants in my album, check media on my profile, you can see the purple ,is where the plats are in the cold not in the sun.(I can't tkae them from my album anymore to post my pictures)