2024 State of the genepool discussion.

[eastcoastjoe]

thanks for being a good sport.


I think the same.

As long as we talk about the plants and not people.

Goes for everyone.

For sure man. Was a honest mistake on my part.

 

[ledo]

90% of today's genetics for sale are washed out garbage. Legalization is making it worse and speeding up the process. If you've got something special you better hang onto that mother as long as u can. Dont ever ever BX the thing until you absolutely have to cuz once BXed that pheno is gone forever. No matter how many BXes back to the mother. Never the same. Learning to clone and preserve desirable existing genetics is the only way to save the genepool. Back to the basics. Dig deep in your basement drawers to find your oldest seeds. Those are the genetics we need right now.

Let me help a second - see above

 

[linde]

Let me help a second - see above

Thanks! That's what u call team work. Lol. Fellows growers are brothers in my book.

 

[linde]

I've got some fine genetics....by today's standards.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I say this all the time, if the market didn't only want Fems we wouldn't make them.

It's 100 x easier to produce Regular seeds but the customers want Feminized seeds 9/1 Fem/Reg customers sales so we have to.

I produce Regular and Feminized and won't ever stop but Feminized seeds keeps the bills paid.
Luckily there is a big resurgence of Regular seed buyers coming back and even some seedbanks who only stock Regular seeds from seed companies.

Very good explanation of the marketing aspect and why even Shantibaba has now jumped on the sexual deviant bandwagon.

Here in the US, I can get Sensi's feminized Northern Lights but not the standard/normal NL.

I can certainly understand the demand for feminized seeds for the small closet or tent grower but I'm simply astounded at the number of relatively inexperienced growers here on ICM chemically fucking with the sexuality of a pistillate plant, when they've only been growing four or five years.

At least they're not fucking with colchicine like dumbasses did in the '80s-90s.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

I can certainly understand the demand for feminized seeds for the small closet or tent grower but I'm simply astounded at the number of relatively inexperienced growers here on ICM chemically fucking with the sexuality of a pistillate plant, when they've only been growing four or five years.

Why constantly take shots at people who don’t agree with your point of view ? I asked you in a other thread and you wont answer. But why are regular seeds superior ? I seriously don’t think you have any good answer

 

[eastcoastjoe]

On another note, Todd McCormick has all the regular NL seeds anyone may need from Greg

 

[ledo]

HatWhy constantly take shots at people who don’t agree with your point of view ? I asked you in an other thread and you wont answer. But why are regular seeds superior ? I seriously don’t think you have any good answer

The Y brings a ton of unknown genetic & epigenetic relationships & additional vigor into the equations. Some believe true/ the purest hybrid vigor requires a M:F relationship, I’m definitely one of them.

That said only a fool relies on a single set of tools, both Regs & Fems rightfully have there place, personally when I’m creating/breeding I only use regs, that’s just me, however.

**********

So many funny posts in this thread holding certain “breeders” on pedestals, some of them fellas barely did any of their own work, ever, well outside marketing, sales & running a business, but actually plant work not so much…. Haha, it takes a ton of attributes to do that though & kudos to them & their successes

 

[eastcoastjoe]

The Y brings a ton of unknowns & additional vigor into the equation

How can we be 100% it’s the Y and not the outcrossing ? There are tons of vigor in hybrid feminized seeds. I’m not talking S1

 

[ledo]

How can we be 100% it’s the Y and not the outcrossing ? There are tons of vigor in hybrid feminized seeds. I’m not talking S1

Decades of testing & proving it, using Fem vs Regs of the same genetic makeup

An easy mind experiment we all can easily relate to, think what the Y does in humans with nearly identical genetics otherwise

Cannabis is an extremely complex plant with billions of genetic interactions; the Y is a huge one that sadly many overlook…

PS: I was editing my above post as you responded, I didn’t mean to post it yet quick trigger

 

[eastcoastjoe]

That said only a fool relies on a single set of tools,

That’s my position as well. I think they both have a place. Just really depends on the end goal

 

[linde]

I think a lot of times people selfe plants because they have no other option rather than simply wanting feminized seeds to work with. They acquired a clone only with no male protege to pollinate and selfe it rather than cross it to retain the most DNA of the mother. Always selfe the plant before you cross and bx the plant in case the bx turns out inferior like it most always does. I bx'd a couple of clone only strains of mine and neither was worth a shit after 3 bxs even on the one before I gave up and threw in the towel.. I'll self any day before I bx if and when the mother finally gets tired.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

Decades of testing & proving it, using Fem vs Regs of the same genetic makeup

When you say decades of testing, what kind of testing we talking ?

 

[eastcoastjoe]

I think a lot of times people selfe plants because they have no other option rather than simply wanting feminized seeds to work with. They acquired a clone only with no male protege to pollinate and selfe it rather than cross it to retain the most DNA of the mother. Always selfe the plant before you cross and bx the plant in case the bx turns out inferior like it most always does. I bx'd a couple of clone only strains of mine and neither was worth a shit after 3 bxs even on the one before I gave up and threw in the towel.. I'll self any day before I bx if and when the mother finally gets tired.

But instead of selfing to that plant, you could always just use that pollen to a different female. That’s the same thing as outcrossing like you would traditionally breeding but instead you’re just using two female plants. In my experience, you get very similar vigor that way with feminized seeds.

 

[ledo]

When you say decades of testing, what kind of testing we talking ?

Testing numerous relationships within same genetics isolating differences b/w M:F & F:F F1 relationships, Regs always have more vigor, perhaps even too much when a pure F1; it’s not hard to understand why the Y adds vigor, it’s additional differentiation b/w the parents, it’s a simple math equation - it doesn’t mean unrelated Fem F1’s can’t show good hybrid vigor, just not as pure as a true M:F F1

PS: don’t forget it’s easy to flip males & monky @ too buddy, ethephon

 

[ledo]

But instead of selfing to that plant, you could always just use that pollen to a different female. That’s the same thing as outcrossing like you would traditionally breeding but instead you’re just using two female plants. In my experience, you get very similar vigor that way with feminized seeds.

Pollen is a good indicator for an easy mental experiment… why does a true male release 10-100X pollen vs what a reversed fem does? Now continue that to a pure F1 hybrid relationship, the Y brings something the X never could, many things - it’s really simple to understand if your not hedged one way or the other into an argument

PS: I have lots of Fem & Reg pollen stored in my freezers at all times, JIC

 

[PetePrice]

Pollen is a good indicator for an easy mental experiment… why does a true male release 10-100X pollen vs what a reversed fem does? Now continue that to a pure F1 hybrid relationship, the Y brings something the X never could, many things - it’s really simple to understand if your not hedged one way or the other into an argument

PS: I have lots of Fem & Reg pollen stored in my freezers at all times, JIC

What are these many things? Regardless of why a male plant produces more pollen as that's self explanatory, what is it specifically it brings other than the Y that Xs can't?

 

[linde]

But instead of selfing to that plant, you could always just use that pollen to a different female. That’s the same thing as outcrossing like you would traditionally breeding but instead you’re just using two female plants. In my experience, you get very similar vigor that way with feminized seeds.

Right. Self the plant. Grow out some s1's. Pick your favorite. Use the same pollin to pollinate the s1 but only IF the s1 is good enough quality compared to the mother.

 

[ledo]

What are these many things? Regardless of why a male plant produces more pollen as that's self explanatory, what is it specifically it brings other than the Y that Xs can't?

Exactly it’s self explanatory the obvious divergence the Y brings into the equation thus adding to hybrid vigor…. Horse to water buddy; put the work in yourself to find out what else he does, you’ll be amazed !

 

[PetePrice]

Testing numerous relationships within same genetics isolating differences b/w M:F & F:F F1 relationships, Regs always have more vigor, perhaps even too much when a pure F1; it’s not hard to understand why the Y adds vigor, it’s additional differentiation b/w the parents, it’s a simple math equation - it doesn’t mean unrelated Fem F1’s can’t show good hybrid vigor, just not as pure as a true M:F F1

PS: don’t forget it’s easy to flip males & monky @ too buddy, ethephon

Why are we breeding for an F1 hybrid? It's individuals we seek, how many found keepers from old reg seeds that where done like this?