Wuhan Coronavirus is an Offensive Biological Warfare Weapon

[Chimera]

Hey Chimera, could a virus mutate to become not as potent or even mutate itself out of existence?

You mean.. like this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...utation-one-sample-signal-getting-weaker.html


Problem is, that the virus replicates clonally. That means all variant strains exist in parallel, not series.

Look at the nextstrain.org cladograph. Think of the divergence viral variants like the tines on a fork. Each tine with go on indefinitely, until that line is not able to infect new hosts- then it dies or fizzles out.

Once genetic variant (a tine of the fork) may acquire genetic weaknesses that slow its spread, or even stop it dead in its tracks. But it can't transfer that genetic weakness "across tines". These viruses do'nt cross-breed like we do with cannabis. They essentially replicate through clones, or "down the tine" of the fork.

Make sense?

 

[RudeDog]

Yes that makes perfect sense...Cheers. Quite fascinating really.

 

[shaggyballs]

I think you missed this.

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y

Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

You have the floor.
Thank you

That was a politicians speech.
Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

Also you avoided the are the bodies contagious debate?

 

[Chimera]

I didn't avoid the contagious corpse discussion. I explained clearly I thought that nCoV can persist in body fluids, urine, feces, blood, saliva after death.. I agree the body doesn't emit spittle or droplets because there is no ongoing respiration (breathing), but if you handle a corpse without PPE, you take a significant risk. Fomites on the patients skin, clothes, bed sheets & covers... all potential sources of contamination.

I mean this is really, really, really basic biology stuff here shaggy. It doesn't take an expert to learn the basics of viral transmission or viral behaviour. You claim to be so informed, but fail to do even the most basic of searches on the topics you want to debate.

Google: "corona virus corpse contagious)

https://www.google.com/search?q=corona+virus+corpse+contagious&oq=corona+virus+corpse+contagious


... there is a ton of evidence showing that corpses are contagious. But you choose to focus on a claim by a Thai government official? That's the best source you can find? Or maybe that's the source you want to find? There's a huge difference.

Given your history of conspiracy posts, seeing that you haven't put in the absolute minimum of effort to understand the basics... I'm supposed to get caught up in some distracting off topic debate based on some obscure quote from an obviously & demonstrably mis-informed (at best) Thai government official?

I mean broooooo... are you for fucking real? I'm honestly leaning towards bot at this point... what programmer in hell

Sorry. Not wasting my time.

 

[shaggyballs]

I didn't avoid the contagious corpse discussion. I explained clearly I thought that nCoV can persist in body fluids, urine, feces, blood, saliva after death.. I agree the body doesn't emit spittle or droplets because there is no ongoing respiration (breathing), but if you handle a corpse without PPE, you take a significant risk. Fomites on the patients skin, clothes, bed sheets & covers... all potential sources of contamination.

I mean this is really, really, really basic biology stuff here shaggy. It doesn't take an expert to learn the basics of viral transmission or viral behaviour. You claim to be so informed, but fail to do even the most basic of searches on the topics you want to debate.

Google: "corona virus corpse contagious)
This describes you not me, check to facts here.
Where is your search results, google???? WTF dude.
Talk about calling the kettle black.
You are guilty of the exact thing you accuse me of.
What kind of logic is that?
You have it backward, just look you will see it is true.

https://www.google.com/search?q=corona+virus+corpse+contagious&oq=corona+virus+corpse+contagious


... there is a ton of evidence showing that corpses are contagious. But you choose to focus on a claim by a Thai government official? That's the best source you can find? Or maybe that's the source you want to find? There's a huge difference. provide goot is that?y not provide any sources for your argument.
I have provided 3 different sources to make my point.
Again you have provided none.
But you think you have won the debate convincingly.


What kind of BS is that, you provide only your opinion, no facts.
You are the expert, you are a man of science.
Do people just take you word for shit?
But you are a know liar, proven beyond debate.
You seem to be stating that you know more than the doctors that make those claims.
Does the scientific community accept your word without anything else to back up your claims?

Given your history of conspiracy posts, given your history of deliberate deception of the public.seeing that you haven't put in the absolute minimum of effort to understand the basics...You have put the minimal effort forth, not me. Here you are calling the kettle black again. What is with you and the personal attacks? is that how you work? I'm supposed to get caught up in some discrattionary debate based on some obscure quote from an obviously & demonstrably mis-informed (at best) Thai government official?
No, how about answer the question I asked short and simple,with out all the dancing and singing.
I mean broooooo... are you for fucking real? I'm honestly leaning towards bot at this point... what programmer in hell

Sorry. Not wasting my time.

Dude you have done nothing but waste my time here.
You come here spread lies like they are the only answer, you provide nothing but take my word for things.
don't you know who I am.

Yea I know who you are.
You are the guy that told the public to trust the scammers that you admitted to knowing they were scamming good folks.
You advocated the scam, knowing full well what their intentions were.
You were involved in an organized scam.
Therefor you helped perpetrate the crime.
You sir are a liar and a scammer.
But you suggest we need to take your word for things.
Just like Phylos right.

Everyone you can trust Chimera now, he is not a scammer anymore....LOL

You have avoided my question time after time.
I feel you are not able to answer the question.
If so why do you keep avoiding it.

So where are you sources?
You knock my source and provide google....WTF kind of shit is that?

This will be the fourth time you have avoided the question.
Saying just trust me I know what I am talking about.

Well since you are a know liar and scammer....
Why should we trust you opinion again?

Provide some facts to back up your side of the debate.
Or you are just blowing hot air......SCAMMER!

 

[troutman]

Dude you have done nothing but waste my time here.

 

[shaggyballs]

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y

Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

You have the floor.
Thank you

That was a politicians speech.
Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[shaggyballs]

He apparently is not willing to play nice.
He insisted on the personal attacks.
So I figured I would fight fire with fire.

Why is it so hard for an expert to answer one question.
Maybe he does not have the answer.
Maybe he knows I am right and he can not prove me wrong.
Therefore you need to discredit the source/me.

These folk operate on a double standard.
I provided 3 sources to my statement.
He says I am wrong, saying google it.
That is laughable, what a joke this guy is...

The worst thing is the cannabis community looks up to this scammer as a hero.
He is out for himself.
He is not looking out for you.

 

[shaggyballs]

You said not a word but I asked this, you missed it.
Are you saying this is a false statement?
During the first SARS outbreak in 2003, data suggested the virus could remain infectious in bodily fluids such as blood, urine and feces for 72 to 96 hours, says Jason Kindrachuk, microbiologist and assistant professor at the University of Manitoba.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/covid-questions-answered-bodies-1.5535139

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y
I am still waiting on Chimera's answer to this question.
Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[Chimera]

Not a word about the fact that corpses are still contagious after death though?

AND an appearance from trout?

 

[shaggyballs]

Not a word about the fact that corpses are still contagious after death though?

AND an appearance from trout?

Sure lets talk about that.

Why don't you like my sources?
Dr Somsak Akhasilp, the DMS director-general, said the virus dies when its host dies and there is no chance of it being transmitted to another person.

Here is the info I have on this subject.
Apr 16, 2020

On March 25, the head of Thailand’s Department of Medical Services had announced the bodies of coronavirus victims were not contagious

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-spread-dead-body-coroner

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1885840/covid-19-corpses-not-contagious

https://vietnamtimes.org.vn/covid-1...e-contagious-coroners-case-reveals-19509.html
https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/heal...y/news-story/49e86cd69a08f9eafa95bf7f6f6d7ca6

During the first SARS outbreak in 2003, data suggested the virus could remain infectious in bodily fluids such as blood, urine and feces for 72 to 96 hours, says Jason Kindrachuk, microbiologist and assistant professor at the University of Manitoba.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/covid-questions-answered-bodies-1.5535139

 

[gaiusmarius]

Careful with claims like above.

Fauci didn't fund the lab in Wuhan, he backed the funding in his role as director of NIAID. It's in US and global interests to study potential threats like corona viruses, which is why we investigate them and try to learn how they infect us and are transmitted, so that we are better prepared to deal with them if such a situation should arise. It has, and we are fortunate to have spent money funding CoV research, because now we have an education base to work from.




China has certainly acted inappropriately at times during the outbreak when nCoV was isolated to China; see Li Wenliang, the Dr who tried to warn others about a flu of unknown origin circulating in a Wuhan hospital. They punished him for spreading rumours (truths), but in my opinion this is a result of an overly aggressive authoritarian Chinese censor, not the result of a coordinated attempt to increase the spread of the disease by withholding the truth. Yes, the net result is the same, but there's an expression that fits well here- one shouldn't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. I see it all as a morbid consequence of a series of errors in the handling of the virus, that led to massive consequences. It happened in the US too, had it been taken more seriously early on, better control might have been possible.



I don't think we'll ever know because we will never get access to every sample in the lab, and be able to sequence them all and show 100% conclusively that this virus didn't come from their genetic stock. Even if we somehow could get all that data, the doubters would just say "well the government obviously destroyed the samples"

Remember there are 1000's of predicted corona viruses. We have studied dozens and collected maybe hundreds (see Shi Zengli). A drop in the bucket of the genetic diversity of what exists in nature. That we don't know the exact relative this virus evolved from is only a sign of our ignorance and evidence of the holes in our sampling of these viruses from nature. We do know her closest relatives though, which is a testament to Shi Zengli's efforts to understand the viruses. She's spent more than 15 years since SARS trying to understand the genetic diversity of these viruses so humanity can truly understand their threat. It's no coincidence that the location of the zoonotic outbreak is near the lab- why? Both the lab & the outbreak are in quite close proximity to where the natural reservoirs for these viruses exist in nature.

I agree with you- the more access we have to truth and knowledge is always better. Shutting down inquiry on the virus' origins is not helpful, but to be expected from an authoritarian regime, and again- not evidence of lab/ man-made origins. Suspicious & puzzling behaviour, yes. Despicable, yes. Evidence of human creation of the virus? Absolutely not.

thanks again, good post. yes, incompetence in authoritarian regimes is prevelant, so it could have been prevelant at the bio weapons lab too, no? hehe, sorry just had to.

as for origin story, i guess you are right, i was hoping scientists of various nations would keep researching till they get answers. maybe the samples that explain it all are still out there some where waiting to be found. even if some chinese scientist done messed up while working with it, you can't blame china as a nation, or even the communist party, as reprehensible as they are.

if it was a natural occurence, as widely assumed, it shows the awsome power of nature to its fullest. who would have thunk it would be something like this that brings cibvilization to its knees in a matter of months. crazy times...

 

[shaggyballs]

To use you words....
Not a word on the question I have asked 5 times now...LOL

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y
I am still waiting on Chimera's answer to this question.
Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[gaiusmarius]

please shagy, this is not the way to discuss, you don't have to agree, but learn to move on. why so fixed on corpses now, then making a bunch of wild ot accusations just spoils the mood. he has answered, just cause its not the answer you want is no reason to get pissy. as was said so many of the youtube stuff and articles have alterior motives, it shines through.

 

[shaggyballs]

please shagy, this is not the way to discuss, you don't have to agree, but learn to move on. why so fixed on corpses now, then making a bunch of wild ot accusations just spoils the mood. he has answered, just cause its not the answer you want is no reason to get pissy. as was said so many of the youtube stuff and articles have alterior motives, it shines through.

Here is my question.

When he answers he need not provide sources.
Why?
Everyone else has to, right?
He knocks my sources, without reason.
Just dismisses it as trash.
But it is the testimony of real doctors.
Why does he get to discredit a doctor only on his word?
When he speaks folks bow and kiss the ring.
Even though he is a scammer.

I did not want the personal attacks.
I even asked nicely to keep it out of the discussion.

It was he that insisted on the personal attacks, I tried hard to avoid it and even asked another member to refrain them himself.

Beside that he is trying to pass his personal feeling off as fact.

Let us discuss if the bodies are contagious or not.
I don't claim to have all the answers.

But the info I provided has more value than a scammer saying just take my word on this.

No I will not.
If he would like to provide back up for his feelings fine.
But all I get from him is I know more than you, concede to me.

It is wrong for me to ask that he provide back up for his belief?
Or am I wrong I should just accept his word as truth?

And why will he not answer my original question?

 

[shaggyballs]

I have asked 5 times now...LOL

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y
I am still waiting on Chimera's answer to this question.
Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[Chimera]

Shaggy, why don't you make a transcript of that video on that lonely little youtube channel of yours. That way I can debunk it point by point. C'mon, it's less than 2 minutes long. If you do your part and transcribe the video accurately, I'll point out the flaws for you.


As far as evidence showing that corona virus can be transmitted through corpses...

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...onavirus-can-jump-from-the-dead-to-the-living

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coron...sed-body-transmits-covid-19/story?id=70144804
By Dr. Angela N. Baldwin
17 April 2020


BC Centre for Disease control
Safe Handling of Bodies of Deceased Persons with Suspected or Confirmed COVID-19:
Interim Guidance
April 2, 2020

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Professionals-Site/Documents/COVID19_SafeHandlingBodies.pdf


Considerations related to the safe handling of bodies of deceased persons with suspected or confirmed COVID-19

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...g-of-bodies-or-persons-dying-from-COVID19.pdf

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-corpses-contagious.html

 

[gaiusmarius]

if someone refered to me as a scammer i wouldn't be interested in having a discussion.

its really annoying that even something like this has become a partisan issue for the US. i notice myself, if i happen to say something that in anyway agree with 1 of the million things Trump has said you get hate, from 1 side and love from the other, no one actually makes their own mind up it seems. but yeah, you need to refrain from insulting people if you really are interested in what they have to say.

 

[Chimera]

Just look at the last few pages... this is what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum.

I've known most of you mods for years... I know how hard it is to be a moderator. It's all volunteer work and thankless. But this thread is what happens when you lay off the delete button. The conversation gets diverted by one user's agenda.

The topic is "Wuhan Coronavirus is an Offensive Biological Warfare Weapon".

You have one user diverting the entire thread, throwing a tantrum to distract from actual contributors, so everyone can debate whether corona virus can spread via corpses?

Something to be said for free-speech. But when it all just becomes confused noise... what's the point of paying for the bandwidth?

No offence to the mods, I don't blame you. This is simply life on the internet of anons.

 

[shaggyballs]

Shaggy, why don't you make a transcript of that video on that lonely little youtube channel of yours. That way I can debunk it point by point. C'mon, it's less than 2 minutes long. If you do your part and transcribe the video accurately, I'll point out the flaws for you.


As far as evidence showing that corona virus can be transmitted through corpses...

https://nationalpost.com/news/world...onavirus-can-jump-from-the-dead-to-the-living
We don’t know whether human remains are infectious,
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coron...sed-body-transmits-covid-19/story?id=70144804
By Dr. Angela N. Baldwin
17 April 2020
What was in this article?
I found nothing worth noting.

BC Centre for Disease control
Safe Handling of Bodies of Deceased Persons with Suspected or Confirmed COVID-19:
Interim Guidance


April 2, 2020

https://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Professionals-Site/Documents/COVID19_SafeHandlingBodies.pdf

Not a valid link
Considerations related to the safe handling of bodies of deceased persons with suspected or confirmed COVID-19

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/de...g-of-bodies-or-persons-dying-from-COVID19.pdf

This info is out dated.

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-corpses-contagious.html

See my source for updated information.

Here are my sources
Your turn to read them and tell me why they are not acceptable.
On March 25, the head of Thailand’s Department of Medical Services had announced the bodies of coronavirus victims were not contagious

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-spread-dead-body-coroner

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1885840/covid-19-corpses-not-contagious

https://vietnamtimes.org.vn/covid-1...e-contagious-coroners-case-reveals-19509.html
https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/heal...y/news-story/49e86cd69a08f9eafa95bf7f6f6d7ca6

During the first SARS outbreak in 2003, data suggested the virus could remain infectious in bodily fluids such as blood, urine and feces for 72 to 96 hours, says Jason Kindrachuk, microbiologist and assistant professor at the University of Manitoba.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/covid-questions-answered-bodies-1.5535139

Most infectious agents do not survive long in the human body after death, according to the World Health Organization.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coron...sed-body-transmits-covid-19/story?id=70144804

Contrary to common belief, there is no evidence that corpses pose a risk of epidemic disease after a natural disaster. Most agents do not survive long in the human body after death. Human remains only pose a substantial risk to health in a few special cases, such as deaths from cholera or haemorrhagic fevers.

https://www.who.int/diseasecontrol_emergencies/guidelines/risks/en/

Fact Check: Can Dead Bodies Of COVID-19 Patients Transmit Novel Coronavirus?
https://thelogicalindian.com/fact-check/dead-body-coronavirus-covid-19-20387

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...died/507-a694ea4a-ed5a-4780-91bc-6bba29d752ab