Wuhan Coronavirus is an Offensive Biological Warfare Weapon

[shaggyballs]

shaggy,you're gonna want to back off on this one and maybe take a few minutes to look into who Chimera is and then possibly consider apologizing...

I know good and well who he is.
So do the good folks of ICMag.

Ok, I will apologize.

Right after he gives his apology to the folks he did wrong here.
Not sure if you know about all of that?

If he ain't, I ain't!

He came round making personal attacks on me, I am responding in defense of that.

 

[Chimera]

Which one specifically do you think has merit? I'm open to watching anything, it's just that all the info I have seen that people use to support the lab/ manmade theory is weak af.

 

[Chimera]

Please point out who exactly I wronged here?

Post the list!

I'm sure it's not seen as a distraction at all, by anybody Shaggy... I mean obviously you don't need to attempt the old & weak red herring do you?

 

[Dropped Cat]

Funny you refer to expert testimony as children playing in the sandbox.
That does make me scratch my head.

40 years, worked with people like faucci.
But you call it entertainment.
She explains how it all works.
Accelerated evolution, you musta misses that?

Oh, thats right you commented without watching the video didn't you?
Sorry bout that.
You have all the facts you need to back your opinion and seem to need no more.
Carry on, nothing for you here then.

I and many others are entertained by the push of
political themed responses to covid 19.

Must have escaped from a lab, lol.

Legally, a lab escape is more likely to gain traction than the wet market origins.
The courts can easily prosecute single contagion origin scenario.

The idea that a simple virus naturally occurring can
be spread globally is beyond the grasp of folks who
have near zero credible reputation among those who
actually understand the mechanisms behind the outbreak.

Your arguments are moot, circular logic is no substitute for
peer reviewed studies.

Doesn't mean I hate you, just that I strongly disagree with your
methods and examples.

Your arguments remind me of doctors in the mid 20th century
stating how healthy cigarette smoking was.

 

[Chimera]

Can I get a what what?


As they used to say, K++

 

[shaggyballs]

Please point out who exactly I wronged here?

Post the list!

I'm sure it's not seen as a distraction at all, by anybody Shaggy... I mean obviously you don't need to attempt the old & weak red herring do you?

You started the whole distraction here with the personal attacks.
I simple said "Do you really want to go there?"

You drug us into the mud, now you don't wanna wrestle?
So lets just keep personal attack out of the discussion.
Talk like men not children shall we?

 

[shaggyballs]

Which one specifically do you think has merit? I'm open to watching anything, it's just that all the info I have seen that people use to support the lab/ manmade theory is weak af.

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y

Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

You have the floor.
Thank you

 

[gaiusmarius]

thanks for that Chimera, i freely admit i don't understand it.

yeah, yeah thats me, EVERY conspiracy. thats exactly what i have said in my posts, not.

still would be nice to have it broken down for us lesser beings. are you saying you know its origins for sure? why are the chinese investiagating the origins as we speak if its 100% clear?

 

[shaggyballs]

I don't want to get too crazy here.
But if the bodies are not contagious, why do you think they are burning them?
Again I am sorry to ask multiple questions at once.

Thank you again for taking the time to talk about this important issue.

 

[shaggyballs]

I and many others are entertained by the push of
political themed responses to covid 19.

Must have escaped from a lab, lol.

Legally, a lab escape is more likely to gain traction than the wet market origins.
The courts can easily prosecute single contagion origin scenario.

The idea that a simple virus naturally occurring can
be spread globally is beyond the grasp of folks who
have near zero credible reputation among those who
actually understand the mechanisms behind the outbreak.

Your arguments are moot, circular logic is no substitute for
peer reviewed studies.

Doesn't mean I hate you, just that I strongly disagree with your
methods and examples.

Your arguments remind me of doctors in the mid 20th century
stating how healthy cigarette smoking was.

You arguments are like an empty box.
There is nothing fucking in there...LOL

All opinion and feelings.
Leave politics out of this discussion.
It really is a problem, it just gets in the way.
Come on back an present some facts.
Or stand on the sideline spewing hot air, if that gets you off.

 

[Chimera]

Sorry Gaius if I offended you, was not the intention. I don't think you are a conspiracy theorist at all, so if somehow that came across I apologize. To be honest the only post of yours I had read in this thread initially was the one I quoted.

You said it exactly right- it's a complex subject, and anyone that tells you they understand it 100% is wrong- there is so much we still don't know about this thing.

All I can do is tell you from my perspective. I'm not a virologist, but I do understand biology & even genomics to a certain degree. Enough to inform a discussion at least, and interpret some basic data.

I just want to preface the discussion though by the fact that there are all sorts of agendas at play these days, confusing a message that is already difficult to understand.

In China, some are spreading information saying this was a US-based bio-weapon.
Iranian leaders also made the same claim. Chinese state media posted a quote from a moyor in NY state, who happened to have coronavirus antibodies, saying that he has the virus in November (in NY). The alternate & more likely scenario, he became an asymptomatic carrier when the virus arrived in NY. In fact if he were to have his virus sequenced, it would tell the tale of when & where he was infected, but the Chinese state media is pushing a narrative that it came from the US. And US media is pushing this equally uninformed narrative, that it's has been created in a lab.

Why? World powers have their own agendas, and will use all sorts of situations to get an upper hand. They thrive on creating confusion for other nations.

So please just keep in mind that the media you/we all consume, is greatly influenced by the political affiliations & leanings of the corporate conglomerate that owns that particular branch of big media.

In this climate, you need to develop a serious bullshit-o-meter. Don't just listen to the few words of a sound bite. Listen to the rest of what they say. Lots of people talking about things they don't understand. Newspaper & periodical (Newsweek!) articles posting articles written by people pushing an opinion.

Someone sent me a vid that had been taken down by youtube, it was 2 Drs that were involved with testing saying how we need to just open society back up, and they had all these data points they were using to justify their position.

Problem was, if you even had a basic understanding of biology & epidemiology, you could see all the flaws n their logic. So you could dissect the logical fallacies one by one, rather simple debate if you cared to take the time.

But this person said to me, "well everyone is arguing about facts these days, sometimes you just have to listen to the overall message"m which frankly blew my mind. If your overall message is supported by a series of assumptions (ie facts), and those assumptions can all easily (although time consumingly) refuted, once would assume that the overall arching message could be dismantled, too, right?

Nope. This was an ideology to this person. The facts didn't matter, which is frustrating to someone that believes that there is such a thing as an intrinsic truth in the universe, not multiple truths that are debatable.

So disproving the lab-made virus theory is kind of like proving God doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative.

So we look at all the other information that is available.

- When the genetic sequences were first released, someone did an analysis and decided that the novel coronavirus was an assembly from SARS & HIV. They had the genetic proof, and spread it everywhere. The internet near-completely agreed it was man made, but a second paper came out about a week later, showing that the first group made a mistake and the new work proved conclusively that there were no HIV genes in the novel coronavirus. They also characterized the S-spike on the virus and the gene involved, and realized that it wasn't quite as efficient as the one on the original SARS virus. When they compared the genetic structures, looking for shared features & using the genetics variations in each strain as markers, they were able to group the viruses into "families", for lack of a better word. They noticed that for sure SARS-CoV-2 didn't come from, descend from, evolve from- however you want to say it-SARS1 wasn't the progenitor of this new virus.

This disproved the stories of the day, but the internet didn't want to give up the man made theory. I mean we have never been decimated by a corona virus before, so why now? Seems unlikely. Truth is we have been getting infected by corona viruses for a lot longer than anyone can say.

Most likely scenario is that this one learned how to be really contagious, and took off running in the population. If it were more like SARS, we'd be fucked- because SARS killed about 10% of the people it infected, this seems to kill about 1% or less- we don't really know because we don't know how many people in the population get infected without showing symptoms.

Anyway on topic- how do we know it wasn't created in a lab? We can't say for sure, because there is no way to ever know. But what we do know- this (now) group of relatively slowly mutating viruses are very, very closely genetically related to other virus we have seen before. 97% identical. Now some say, yeah but that the same difference between humans & chimps- but corona viruses have much smaller genomes- 29,800 nucleotides long. 97% identity is less that 800 RNA letter changes, and watching how fast this thing changes genetically (again, relatively slowly, but calculable), it is definitely realistic that one of the previous Corona viruses we have seen, or a closely related family member, mutated into the one currently on world tour.

Happy to discuss any specific point you have otherwise Gaius... like I said it's a complex subject, and lots of different aspects to it. I can only rely on the science to lead the way for me.

Lots of weird stuff like China wanting to put a stop to study of the viruses origin, but again I think that is explainable by the actions of authoritarian regime. At best they get the truth and prove the chain of transmission from an animal source (now impossible), but the cost in terms of disinformation festering is incalculable. The longer it goes on, at a certain point they are guilty even if they prove they are innocent.

In Iran they are having this exact same conversation right now. But China isn't the bad guy, in their version it's the US labs that created & released it. Same story, totally different 'facts' & narrative.

People always looking to create a boogie-man.

But sometimes, it's just Mother Nature doing what she does.

 

[Chimera]

I don't want to get too crazy here.
But if the bodies are not contagious, why do you think they are burning them?

Corpses of people who died from CoVID aren't contagious?

That's just not a fact.

Corpses aren't respiring, so they aren't actively putting droplets or spittle into the air, but any saliva in their mouth, urine or feces, blood etc still has the virus & can infect others. Fomites on their bodies can still be transferred to healthcare workers, or morgue workers, etc

This is why people handling bodies wear PPE.

 

[shaggyballs]

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y

Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

You have the floor.
Thank you

That was a politicians speech.
Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[Medfinder]

When are the Airlines. gonna roll?

Nothing like more Chinese tourist industry to cement an economy.

 

[shaggyballs]

Corpses of people who died from CoVID aren't contagious?

That's just not a fact.

Corpses aren't respiring, so they aren't actively putting droplets or spittle into the air, but any saliva in their mouth, urine or feces, blood etc still has the virus & can infect others. Fomites on their bodies can still be transferred to healthcare workers, or morgue workers, etc

This is why people handling bodies wear PPE.

Are you sure that is not a fact?


Dr Somsak Akhasilp, the DMS director-general, said the virus dies when its host dies and there is no chance of it being transmitted to another person.

Here is the info I have on this subject.
Apr 16, 2020

On March 25, the head of Thailand’s Department of Medical Services had announced the bodies of coronavirus victims were not contagious

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-spread-dead-body-coroner

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1885840/covid-19-corpses-not-contagious

https://vietnamtimes.org.vn/covid-1...e-contagious-coroners-case-reveals-19509.html
https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/heal...y/news-story/49e86cd69a08f9eafa95bf7f6f6d7ca6

During the first SARS outbreak in 2003, data suggested the virus could remain infectious in bodily fluids such as blood, urine and feces for 72 to 96 hours, says Jason Kindrachuk, microbiologist and assistant professor at the University of Manitoba.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/covid-questions-answered-bodies-1.5535139

I am not claiming to know the truth.
I would like to know the truth.
I am just showing what I have on the subject.
I don't much care for the source, but could not find a better one.
Again this is an open debate, I don't state my side as the only answer.

 

[bsgospel]

:thumbs down:

 

[troutman]

I think I know why bats don't get sick from those viruses and humans do.
Where's a good patent lawyer when you need one? Maybe, MonSamTo
can help with that?

 

[shaggyballs]

I think I know why bats don't get sick from those viruses and humans do.
Where's a good patent lawyer when you need one? Maybe, MonSamTo
can help with that?

Now troutman lets play nice with him.
That is if he is interested in that.

 

[shaggyballs]

Let us start with this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-S-Qq9M53Y

Why is it very clear to her this thing is a product of Accelerated evolution.

The jump is too large to make in on leap.
It would need to do it incrementally.
But the natural evolutionary steps are missing, they do not exist.
This indicates human intervention does it not.

You have the floor.
Thank you

Your last reply was a bit of a politicians speech.
Could you be as short and direct as possible leaving any and all political references out of you explanation.

In short dumb it down for us stoners who don't talk politics, please.

 

[troutman]

Bat shit virus.