WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[DocLeaf]

And I am very curious to hear from an enlightened breeder about their thoughts on forcing a true female plant (one of the 6%...or should I say 3%). I don't think it can happen....

Do you mean like UK Cheese?

The UK Cheese Clone will NOT reverse. While suspect Cheese clones will sometimes spit pollen of their own accord,, the UK Cheese clone will not reverse,, even when subjected to Colloid Silver treatments.

The idea of a "true female" then holds much weight in debate these ends.

Hope this helps

 

[hahhh]

hempy i knew you had no idea what you were posting there. your cut and paste has NOTHING to do with feminizing cannabis and how it will be the end of the world.fukin internet pot forums...jesus.

I have never seen a plant that could not be reversed. and i have done a lot of it. hahhhh

Its more likely that there is an error in doing the reversal. i.e. inexperienced 'technicians', poor calibration of the chemical agents, ...and colloidal silver is a JOKE compared to other chemical agents. There are plenty of people who use poor methods and are quick to make assumptions based on ONE hacked experiment.

the only person in the world who has claimed to have found a "true female" is Sam. Of course he has seen more than ONE.... And when he finds them he never uses them to make a sexually 'true' variety. ??? For whatever reason it must be preferable to make commercial seeds with hermaphroditic males and females instead of "true" female plants.

DocLeaf, i cant hardly believe anything you have to say. the list of crazy shit out of you is too long.

 

[DocLeaf]

If Cheese was reversable,, then dont you think BigBuddha would have done it,, plus 100 other UK growers (its not like CS is expensive and Cheese clones are free these ends)!

Likewise why did GHSco need BigBuddha's seeds,, if it was possible to reverse the original UK Cheese clone? (cause we'd have sent Franco one)

You can't con a con!

DocLeaf, i cant hardly believe anything you have to say. the list of crazy shit out of you is too long.

Maybe get enough posts so that you can enter the chatroom,, and we'd be happy to help educate you on the subject

Half the people making comments here never grew a feminized plant,, or made a feminized seed line ,, let alone did any breeding with them... lol

Hope this helps

 

[Dalaihempy]

hempy i knew you had no idea what you were posting there. your cut and paste has NOTHING to do with feminizing cannabis and how it will be the end of the world.fukin internet pot forums...jesus.

I have never seen a plant that could not be reversed. and i have done a lot of it. hahhhh

Its more likely that there is an error in doing the reversal. i.e. inexperienced 'technicians', poor calibration of the chemical agents, ...and colloidal silver is a JOKE compared to other chemical agents. There are plenty of people who use poor methods and are quick to make assumptions based on ONE hacked experiment.

the only person in the world who has claimed to have found a "true female" is Sam. Of course he has seen more than ONE.... And when he finds them he never uses them to make a sexually 'true' variety. ??? For whatever reason it must be preferable to make commercial seeds with hermaphroditic males and females instead of "true" female plants.

DocLeaf, i cant hardly believe anything you have to say. the list of crazy shit out of you is too long.

On The Importance Of Male Fitness In Plants PatternsOf Fruiet Set

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1938317?cookieSet=1


And these Quotes

Evidence is also presented indicating that increased selfing resulting from changes to floral design, or geitonogamy in large clones, can act as a stimulus for the evolution of dioecy. The scope of future research on mating strategies needs to be broadened to include investigations of functional links among flowers, inflorescences and plant architecture within the framework of life–history evolution.



Evolution of dioecy. Most plants are hermaphroditic, with both male function (with pollen and stamens) and female function (with ovules, pistils, seeds, and fruit) in each flower. About 6% of flowering plant species are dioecious (unisexual plants with male flowers or female flowers in the population).

Have no relevance ? Are you kidding your self.

increased selfing resulting from changes to floral design, or geitonogamy in large clones, can act as a stimulus for the evolution of dioecy.


Evolution of dioecy. Most plants are hermaphroditic, with both male function (with pollen and stamens) and female function (with ovules, pistils, seeds, and fruit) in each flower. [/B]

It says selfing causes problems.

 

[hahhh]

hempy said " It says selfing causes problems"

First, its not even talking about
a) the sexual orientation of cannabis, which is a mixture of monoecy,dioecy.
b)its not talking about breeding plants for crop improvements, its talking about the ecological implications of plants sexually reproducing in a Natural stand. There is a BIG difference here.
c)its not talking about sexually reversing a plant with a FOREIGN chemical stimulus which is NEVER present in a Natural stand. The exogenous application of said chemical agents produces a TEMPORARY hormone imbalance in BREEDING plants, to encourage MALE FUNCTION in that plant. Feminization does not make changes in the DNA, it produces a hormone imbalance that wears off in several weeks. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ARTICLE.

Second, you seem to believe that chemical sex reversal leading to the expression of male flowers on those treated plants, and HYBRIDIZATION with another plant is SELFING. It is NOT selfing.

EVERYONE KNOWS INBREEDING CAUSES decreased fitness in RIDGID OUTCROSSING species, selfing increases(f) the inbreeding coefficient, and pairs up ancestorally related alleles. But temporary chemical sex reversal in some ARTIFICIAL BREEDING PROGRAMS is not making evolutionary changes in the entire species. get a grip.

Third, you keep quoting in bold that selfing leads plant species to DIOECY. I ask you...is that going to be the end of the world for cannabis then? dioecy? hahhhhhhh

have you ever thought about how cannabis plants all carry intersex alleles(male function), and that fact means it is quite likely that cannabis has gone through several or more periods in its evolution of it being completely monoecious, completely dioecous, and every phase inbetween??? and you are fearing DIOECY IN CANNABIS??????jesuschrist. its all so ridiculous........

 

[stagger lee]

LOL. Greg Green is actually Strawdog from Overgrow who got all his info for his book from the Overgrow website before it went down. Copy and paste. lol

I know Greg Green mentions overgrow and it being a source of info, along w/a hundred others. Every grow book out has a long list in back of book of sources.Nothing wrong w/using website forums for info is there? Like I said I think his breeders book has the best info on feminized seeds,breeding in general, and environment influences ect...,

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Nothing wrong w/using website forums for info is there? Like I said I think his breeders book has the best info on feminized seeds,breeding in general, and environment influences ect...,

Yeah, there is a problem with using a message board for source info for a book. Especially when shit like you are trying to pass around gets published.

Basically it is hard headed ignorance perpetuated by the less-than-learned.

Very weak kung fu.

 

[Dalaihempy]

hempy said " It says selfing causes problems"

First, its not even talking about
a) the sexual orientation of cannabis, which is a mixture of monoecy,dioecy.
b)its not talking about breeding plants for crop improvements, its talking about the ecological implications of plants sexually reproducing in a Natural stand. There is a BIG difference here.
c)its not talking about sexually reversing a plant with a FOREIGN chemical stimulus which is NEVER present in a Natural stand. The exogenous application of said chemical agents produces a TEMPORARY hormone imbalance in BREEDING plants, to encourage MALE FUNCTION in that plant. Feminization does not make changes in the DNA, it produces a hormone imbalance that wears off in several weeks. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ARTICLE.

Second, you seem to believe that chemical sex reversal leading to the expression of male flowers on those treated plants, and HYBRIDIZATION with another plant is SELFING. It is NOT selfing.

EVERYONE KNOWS INBREEDING CAUSES decreased fitness in RIDGID OUTCROSSING species, selfing increases(f) the inbreeding coefficient, and pairs up ancestorally related alleles. But temporary chemical sex reversal in some ARTIFICIAL BREEDING PROGRAMS is not making evolutionary changes in the entire species. get a grip.

Third, you keep quoting in bold that selfing leads plant species to DIOECY. I ask you...is that going to be the end of the world for cannabis then? dioecy? hahhhhhhh

have you ever thought about how cannabis plants all carry intersex alleles(male function), and that fact means it is quite likely that cannabis has gone through several or more periods in its evolution of it being completely monoecious, completely dioecous, and every phase inbetween??? and you are fearing DIOECY IN CANNABIS??????jesuschrist. its all so ridiculous........

Think i know who you are and if you are who i think its nice to see you back posting but just like before i still have my opinions and you yours.

How can you honestly tell me that The exogenous application of said chemical agents produces a TEMPORARY hormone imbalance in BREEDING plants, to encourage MALE FUNCTION in that plant. Feminization does not make changes in the DNA, it produces a hormone imbalance that wears off in several weeks.

It has to change the plants DNA to go from being a female to a male if it only lasts a few weeks on the treated plant then will a treated plant that was a female then turned into a male become a true female agine no.

I am no scientist never sed i was or do i fully understand a lot of the more complex research terms but what i do understand is the importance of healthy males in any given population of plants or animals.

As i see this it comes down to basics you that support fem seeds are putting across an argument that female seeds are great will produce female plants with no problems now or in the future and if they do you blame the genetics or the grower.

Saw this happening over and over how can any of you supporting female seeds tell me or any one it will not cause female seeds to produce both male and female flowers on female plants grown it has and does happen with all methods of producing female seeds it is documented by growers right threw the boards.

I even saw reports of reversed plants producing sterile pollen one was from dman at cw.

Reversing or selfing is not the same ? how so your using a clone of its self to pollinate its self.

The exact copy of its self in the form of clone plant is reversed to make pollen but it is still self pollinating after all it is a clone of its self an exact copy of the plant it was cloned from it has just been turned into a male.


Plant Hormones: Roles

Auxins Involved in differentiation of vascular tissue, control cellular elongation, prevention of abscission, involved in apical dominance and various tropisms, stimulate the release of ethylene, enhance fruit development

Cytokinins Affect cell division, delay senescence, activate dormant buds

Gibberellins Initiate mobilization of storage materials in seeds during germination, cause elongation of stems, stimulate bolting in biennials, stimulate pollen tube growth

Abscisic Acid Maintains dormancy in seeds and buds, stimulates the closing of stomata

Ethylene Causes ripening of climacteric fruits, promotes abscission, causes formation of aerenchyma tissue in submerged stems, determines sex in cucurbits

Jasmonates Involved in response to environmental stresses, control germination of seeds

Brassinolides Promote of elongation, stimulate flowering, promote cell division, can affect tropic curvature

Salicylic Acid Activates genes involved with plant's defense mechanisms

The exogenous application of said chemical agents produces a TEMPORARY hormone imbalance in BREEDING plants, to encourage MALE FUNCTION in that plant. Feminization does not make changes in the DNA, it produces a hormone imbalance that wears off in several weeks. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ARTICLE.

Hormones, Plant

Plant hormones are chemical messengers that are produced in one part of the plant and have a physiological effect on a target tissue that may be distant from the site of production. When hormones reach the target tissue they can: (1) have a direct effect on the target tissue causing a rapid metabolic response; (2) involve the use of a second messenger within target cells; and/or (3) affect transcription of nuclear deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)

It does change the DNA.

DNA

A nucleic acid that carries the genetic information in the cell and is capable of self-replication and synthesis of RNA. DNA consists of two long chains of nucleotides twisted into a double helix and joined by hydrogen bonds between the complementary bases adenine and thymine or cytosine and guanine. The sequence of nucleotides determines individual hereditary characteristics.

How can a plant have its DNA changed TEMPORARY to produce male flowers it looks like your changing its DNA to achieve this full stop.

 

[madback]

personally, I think that feminized seeds are a cash cow for the seed companies, and I wish people didn't use S1 seeds to make crosses. Your basicity contaminating a pure female, with hermaphrodite pollen. You cannot argue against that, thats just how the world works. If a hermaphrodite had sex with it's brother, don't you think the offspring might have penis' on them?

I also believe that 1 female from a pure breeding seed pack, would be 100 times better than 10 females from a feminized pack...

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Your comprehension skills seem to be the real problem you face, Hempy.
For example, there is a difference between "can" and "will".
A treatment to cause a hormone trigger is a temporary thing which does not change the DNA of a plant at all. Once the treatment has dissipated, there is nothing left to trigger the hormone response, and if the plant is still living and healthy it will eventually see no more of the chemicals responsible for the previous triggering, and will revert to it's natural mode of operation.
I think we will find that in the case of CS, it is a physical action involving the silver that triggers the stamen response, as opposed to chemical. (basically a physical response delivered by a chemical vehicle)

 

[THC123]

personally, I think that feminized seeds are a cash cow for the seed companies

yeah it's a disgrace that some are only offering fem and no more regular

Dutch passion is an example , such nice genetics but many now are only available as fem

i will just buy their flagship strains in reg and copy them so in the future i can grow these strains in REGULAR form

say no to fem!

 

[indifferent]

I worry that soon all we will be able to buy is femmed seeds, sad days.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

What is a disgrace is the lack of understanding, and those in our community who continue to push voodoo and bad juju in lieu of facts and reality.

Sort of like politics in a way...many have no real fucking clues as to the issues and what they are all about, but by god they know what side they have chosen to be on! And these folks will argue the talking points of their side till the cows come home, even when they understand fuck all about the issue.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

hey all-knowing hoosierasshole , i know that with regular packs i can get a MALE , some people like males

i really don't like your aggressive know it all tone and wasn't really talkin to you

Apparently I know more than you do on this topic.
Not once have I said anything about not using standard seeds. Are all you folks who tout voodoo as bad with comprehension skills as you and Hempy?
Is there a pattern here? I think maybe there is...

I really don't like the ignorance and lack of skills that you display, but to each his own. And I am talking directly to you.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Your comprehension skills seem to be the real problem you face, Hempy.
For example, there is a difference between "can" and "will".
A treatment to cause a hormone trigger is a temporary thing which does not change the DNA of a plant at all. Once the treatment has dissipated, there is nothing left to trigger the hormone response, and if the plant is still living and healthy it will eventually see no more of the chemicals responsible for the previous triggering, and will revert to it's natural mode of operation.
I think we will find that in the case of CS, it is a physical action involving the silver that triggers the stamen response, as opposed to chemical. (basically a physical response delivered by a chemical vehicle)

Apparently I know more than you do on this topic.
Not once have I said anything about not using standard seeds. Are all you folks who tout voodoo as bad with comprehension skills as you and Hempy?
Is there a pattern here? I think maybe there is...

I really don't like the ignorance and lack of skills that you display, but to each his own. And I am talking directly to you.

hoosierdaddy your so full of shit and watch your self i have been nice and not attacked any one personally yet you do and have the hide to attack my comprehension skills like i give a toss what you think.

Lets cut threw all your bull shit shall we its not voodoo as you say that fem seeds do produce males females and plants expressing both male and female flowers.

hormone trigger is a temporary thing which does not change the DNA of a plant at all. Once the treatment has dissipated

Hormone rigger is temporary ? Prove it wise man.

How can you honestly tell me that The exogenous application of said chemical agents produces a TEMPORARY hormone imbalance in BREEDING plants, to encourage MALE FUNCTION in that plant. Feminization does not make changes in the DNA, it produces a hormone imbalance that wears off in several weeks.

It has to change the plants DNA to go from being a female to a male if it only lasts a few weeks on the treated plant then will a treated plant that was a female then turned into a male become a true female agine no.

I am no scientist never sed i was or do i fully understand a lot of the more complex research terms but what i do understand is the importance of healthy males in any given population of plants or animals.

As i see this it comes down to basics you that support fem seeds are putting across an argument that female seeds are great will produce female plants with no problems now or in the future and if they do you blame the genetics or the grower.

Saw this happening over and over how can any of you supporting female seeds tell me or any one it will not cause female seeds to produce both male and female flowers on female plants grown it has and does happen with all methods of producing female seeds it is documented by growers right threw the boards.

I even saw reports of reversed plants producing sterile pollen one was from dman at cw.

Reversing or selfing is not the same ? how so your using a clone of its self to pollinate its self.

The exact copy of its self in the form of clone plant is reversed to make pollen but it is still self pollinating after all it is a clone of its self an exact copy of the plant it was cloned from it has just been turned into a male.


Plant Hormones: Roles

Auxins Involved in differentiation of vascular tissue, control cellular elongation, prevention of abscission, involved in apical dominance and various tropisms, stimulate the release of ethylene, enhance fruit development

Cytokinins Affect cell division, delay senescence, activate dormant buds

Gibberellins Initiate mobilization of storage materials in seeds during germination, cause elongation of stems, stimulate bolting in biennials, stimulate pollen tube growth

Abscisic Acid Maintains dormancy in seeds and buds, stimulates the closing of stomata

Ethylene Causes ripening of climacteric fruits, promotes abscission, causes formation of aerenchyma tissue in submerged stems, determines sex in cucurbits

Jasmonates Involved in response to environmental stresses, control germination of seeds

Brassinolides Promote of elongation, stimulate flowering, promote cell division, can affect tropic curvature

Salicylic Acid Activates genes involved with plant's defense mechanisms





Hormones, Plant

Plant hormones are chemical messengers that are produced in one part of the plant and have a physiological effect on a target tissue that may be distant from the site of production. When hormones reach the target tissue they can: (1) have a direct effect on the target tissue causing a rapid metabolic response; (2) involve the use of a second messenger within target cells; and/or (3) affect transcription of nuclear deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)

It does change the DNA.

DNA

A nucleic acid that carries the genetic information in the cell and is capable of self-replication and synthesis of RNA. DNA consists of two long chains of nucleotides twisted into a double helix and joined by hydrogen bonds between the complementary bases adenine and thymine or cytosine and guanine. The sequence of nucleotides determines individual hereditary characteristics.

How can a plant have its DNA changed TEMPORARY to produce male flowers it looks like your changing its DNA to achieve this full stop.

 

[hahhh]

hempy:"It has to change the plants DNA to go from being a female to a male if it only lasts a few weeks on the treated plant then will a treated plant that was a female then turned into a male become a true female agine no."

>>>No, it does not have to change the DNA hempy. As your quote says, it can have an effect on THE TRANSCRIPTION OF(let's say the 'reading of') THE DNA. It never makes mutations(changes) in any of the actual DNA sequences. I dont even think what we are doing is a transcription thing, its just a hormone imbalance; hormone therapy.
You obviously do not understand enough about this to comment with any authority.

hempy:"but what i do understand is the importance of healthy males in any given population of plants or animals."

>>No you dont. You THINK you know, but you have misunderstood what youre reading and twisted all the facts so bad, its ALL WRONG now in your mind. This is why you and others like you who dont understand things should not be allowed to throw your shit into the stream of data!!! You CAUSE POT FOLKLORE to be passed on down the line.

hempy:"As i see this it comes down to basics you that support fem seeds are putting across an argument that female seeds are great will produce female plants with no problems now or in the future and if they do you blame the genetics or the grower."

>>>You did get THAT right. Add "the breeder" to the list of who needs to take to most blame. Stupid hack breeders make POOR matings and then stupid hack seed SELLERS allow the selling of these hackjobs. Then stupid growers come on here and say that feminization is CHANGING cannabis DNA. See how that works?

hempy:"Saw this happening over and over how can any of you supporting female seeds tell me or any one it will not cause female seeds to produce both male and female flowers on female plants grown it has and does happen with all methods of producing female seeds it is documented by growers right threw the boards."

>>hempy, are you AWAKE? YES, feminized matings can create intersexed offspring AND typical MalexFemale matings can create intersexed offspring. DID YOU FUCKIN CATCH THAT? That has NOTHING to do with the mating being FEMINIZED. ANY KIND OF MATING CAN PRODUCE OFFSPRING WITH INTERSEXUAL BEHAVIORS. In fact, femalexfemale matings allow the breeder to see if the female parents have intersexual behaviors before using them in a mating scheme. That is not possible by viewing male plants and evaluating them for sexual stability.

hempy:"I even saw reports of reversed plants producing sterile pollen one was from dman at cw."

>>>Sterile or NON-functional pollen is part of the picture of cannabis sexuality. Since sexual expression has such a wide range, -the result of an X/Y system with autosomal modifiers- it is not unusual to discover some plants with a genotype that gives non-functional pollens. People never even thought about the genetic ability of a FEMALE plant to make viable or sterile pollen until we began really reversing them.

hempy:"Reversing or selfing is not the same ? how so your using a clone of its self to pollinate its self."

>>> hempy, there is SELFING; there is HYBRIDIZATION. right?
A sexually reversed female clone that gives pollen and donates that pollen to another DIFFERENT, UNRELATED plant is hybridization, not selfing. You seem to think the only way to feminize is to SELF something. NO.
REVERSING the sex of a clone is just that: a process to produce a TEMPORARY RESPONSE in plants, to allow the plant to express different sex organs. The plant makes the other sex organs because it is carrying the genes to do it in its DNA but is not expressed until the cue from the chemical agent comes to induce the response.

hempy:"it does change the DNA"

>>>NO IT DOES NOT. NO base pairs(nucleotides) are changed. It is the transcription of the DNA that can be manipulated. Sounds to me like you need to read up on HOW DNA goes from base pairs to physical traits. THEN participate in the discussion.

 

[kopite]

Do you mean like UK Cheese?

The UK Cheese Clone will NOT reverse. While suspect Cheese clones will sometimes spit pollen of their own accord,, the UK Cheese clone will not reverse,, even when subjected to Colloid Silver treatments.

The idea of a "true female" then holds much weight in debate these ends.

Hope this helps

well i've seen it done.....

 

[kopite]

If Cheese was reversable,, then dont you think BigBuddha would have done it,, plus 100 other UK growers (its not like CS is expensive and Cheese clones are free these ends)!

Likewise why did GHSco need BigBuddha's seeds,, if it was possible to reverse the original UK Cheese clone? (cause we'd have sent Franco one)

You can't con a con!



Maybe get enough posts so that you can enter the chatroom,, and we'd be happy to help educate you on the subject

Half the people making comments here never grew a feminized plant,, or made a feminized seed line ,, let alone did any breeding with them... lol

Hope this helps

it segregates.... so what good is selfed seed? Big blubba did countless backcrosses to try to replicate the "cheese" clone.... but he couldn't even do that friggin right...

Kopite

 

[DocLeaf]

it segregates.... so what good is selfed seed? Big blubba did countless backcrosses to try to replicate the "cheese" clone.... but he couldn't even do that friggin right...

Kopite

Think you have us confused

We don't dig feminized seeds so much,, and bigbuddha's a cool gizza (the BIGGEST breeder in the UK). Heads up!

We've grown plenty fem. seeds,, produced S1 eekamouse seeds ,, and breed with feminized seeds. But still what do we know? (we can always learn something new)

Peace, less hatn, more love

 

[bicycle racer]

led have there purpose and are improving as tech gets better great for those with electrical footprints/cost/heat/space issues. lowriders are useful for outdoor growers who have limited space or a short season or want small stealth plants in non med states. feminized seeds are fine if made properly by reducing ethylene through binding up copper and only using herm free stress tested genetics. why do people bash things they dont understand for no reason stupid lol.