hey englishrick some nice punnet diagrams, what are they in relation to? i mean, what organism were the genes in the diagram from? was it cucumbers like you were speaking of after it?
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WTF is w/feminized genetics,
- Thread starter stagger lee
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they are snakes I bet
choi morcha,,,,mornin Darwin
snakes bro,,,,
im presuming the "striped snow" are them cream snakes with yellow stripes i allways see in the petshop,,,im sure you have seen them,,,,
whatever they are ,,,,in that Punnet square they look like they are totaly homozygote for recessive traits
good to see you bro
snakes bro,,,,
im presuming the "striped snow" are them cream snakes with yellow stripes i allways see in the petshop
,,,im sure you have seen them,,,,whatever they are ,,,,in that Punnet square they look like they are totaly homozygote for recessive traits
good to see you bro
hey mate! nice to see you too haha i should've guessed at least that they were animals, ADAH! no plants are albino... what a fail on my part! hahaha thanks for filling me in! and if they're not native to aus i probs havent, we can't buy any animals in pet stores that aren't native, well pretty much, especially when it comes to herpetofauna (reptiles/amphibians etc)
gettitreal
Member
mrwags? Why is your consultant a secret? Who is it?
I can tell you for me, the discussion is more than just a power trip like your friend has implied.... Its about getting the correct information out and understood by the people who DO feminized matings on drug cannabis. Because there are SO MANY wrong conclusions among people who are not directly involved.
Can you clarify what this means?
"The only important part of the conversation is that feminising has nothing to do with genetic manipulation. And yes, the quality of the seeds is dependent on the quality of the breeder."
>>> What does your friend mean by "feminising has nothing to do with genetic manipulation"?
That second part is wrong. The quality of the seedline has nothing to do with the breeder, its the genetic material that is culled or kept.(selection)
Those quotes dont exactly sound like that of an expert. An expert wouldnt leave that much to question.
p.s. some plants can be albino. for a little while, until they die. I have seen lots of albino plants(seedlings) arise from SELFING.
I can tell you for me, the discussion is more than just a power trip like your friend has implied.... Its about getting the correct information out and understood by the people who DO feminized matings on drug cannabis. Because there are SO MANY wrong conclusions among people who are not directly involved.
Can you clarify what this means?
"The only important part of the conversation is that feminising has nothing to do with genetic manipulation. And yes, the quality of the seeds is dependent on the quality of the breeder."
>>> What does your friend mean by "feminising has nothing to do with genetic manipulation"?
That second part is wrong. The quality of the seedline has nothing to do with the breeder, its the genetic material that is culled or kept.(selection)
Those quotes dont exactly sound like that of an expert. An expert wouldnt leave that much to question.
p.s. some plants can be albino. for a little while, until they die. I have seen lots of albino plants(seedlings) arise from SELFING.
ahh well spotted mate! i was actually going to ask the exact same thing about that same statement, i'd argue that feminization is playing with the genes of a plant as it's reshuffling them through recombination and that's manipulation in my books, though at that stage it isn't selection if that's what he means. i'd argue though that the quality of the line has a lot to do with the breeder as they're the ones who are doing the selecting and are therefore directly responsible for the resultant line and its quality.
albinism as we think about it with animals doesn't occur in plants, as far as i know it only occurs in vertebrates as it's related to an enyzme which controls levels (presence or absence even) of melanin.
"Albinism (from Latin albus, "white"; see extended etymology, also called achromia, achromasia, or achromatosis) is a congenital disorder characterized by the complete or partial absence of pigment in the skin, hair and eyes due to absence or defect of an enzyme involved in the production of melanin. Albinism results from inheritance of recessive gene alleles and is known to affect all vertebrates, including humans. The most common term used for an organism affected by albinism is "albino". Additional clinical adjectives sometimes used to refer to animals are "albinoid" and "albinic"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism
if a similar thing to albinism is occurring in a plant it'd be loss of colour due to no chlorophyll etc being present as a result of some sort of genetic disorder or nutrient issue i think, and yeah no chlorophyll = dead plant
darwin
mmmm sorry for the hijack of the thread.
http://whitershadeoftail.wordpress.com/albinsim-in-plants/
some interesting stuff there on albinism in plants etc, but mmm i'd probably be hesitant in using the term albinism as its normal use is referring to melanin pigment issues. but yeah seems there're plants with it too however they all die as they can't produce energy, so it's a mutation that will never be breed true through a line etc as any progeny with it cark it before they're old enough to reproduce.
beautiful pic though englishrick thanks for searching your memory and find it to share
http://whitershadeoftail.wordpress.com/albinsim-in-plants/
some interesting stuff there on albinism in plants etc, but mmm i'd probably be hesitant in using the term albinism as its normal use is referring to melanin pigment issues. but yeah seems there're plants with it too however they all die as they can't produce energy, so it's a mutation that will never be breed true through a line etc as any progeny with it cark it before they're old enough to reproduce.
beautiful pic though englishrick thanks for searching your memory and find it to share
gettitreal
Member
Albinism in plants DOES OCCUR. Its not melanin thats missing, its chlorophyll.
This is caused by a double recessive condition, usually brought on by severe inbreeding.
It occurs often in SELFINGS of single cannabis plants and Ive also seen it in an interspecies hybrid I made with papaver somniferum and papaver orientale.
This is caused by a double recessive condition, usually brought on by severe inbreeding.
It occurs often in SELFINGS of single cannabis plants and Ive also seen it in an interspecies hybrid I made with papaver somniferum and papaver orientale.
funkymonkey
Member
I got a question for you brainboxes, what is the effect on vigour of selfing?
What I mean is, if I selfed a P1 to make S1s, then selfed one of the S1s to make S2s, and carried on selecting an individual from each successive generation to self, with the goal of stabilising a set of traits, then what would be the effect on vigour? How many gens before the vigour would suffer?
What I mean is, if I selfed a P1 to make S1s, then selfed one of the S1s to make S2s, and carried on selecting an individual from each successive generation to self, with the goal of stabilising a set of traits, then what would be the effect on vigour? How many gens before the vigour would suffer?
gettitreal
Member
There is a loss of vigor in the First generation. (S1) Some people do not notice this, but its happening.
The leaves become smaller, the plants grow slower, the flowers are smaller, the germination is erratic, albinos and mutants arise.
In S2, there are sterile plants and many very feeble/weak ones.
By S3 its difficult to even get a population to germinate together.
This happens because cannabis is NOT an inbreeding species. It is an outcrosser. It needs to be heterogenous and heterozygous to be vigorous.
Of course, when you say this to people who THINK selfing is a good way to make seeds for growing, they get a far away look in their eyes......
The leaves become smaller, the plants grow slower, the flowers are smaller, the germination is erratic, albinos and mutants arise.
In S2, there are sterile plants and many very feeble/weak ones.
By S3 its difficult to even get a population to germinate together.
This happens because cannabis is NOT an inbreeding species. It is an outcrosser. It needs to be heterogenous and heterozygous to be vigorous.
Of course, when you say this to people who THINK selfing is a good way to make seeds for growing, they get a far away look in their eyes......
do you have/know of any papers that back that up in Cannabis or any other related species that i'd be able to read?
funkymonkey
Member
So using selfing to stabilise a line is not a good idea then? Sounds to me like making anything beyond S1s is a bad idea.
It's a shame that most of the people with knowledge that are posting in this thread have 'book learning' and don't have the hands-on experience of doing breeding work with femming techniques, but with the nastiness that keeps surfacing, it's easy to see why guys with the actual experience of this work would be unlikely to join the discussion.
It's a shame that most of the people with knowledge that are posting in this thread have 'book learning' and don't have the hands-on experience of doing breeding work with femming techniques, but with the nastiness that keeps surfacing, it's easy to see why guys with the actual experience of this work would be unlikely to join the discussion.
hay getitreal
selfing defo lowers yeald,,,,propper breeders use selfing to test inderviduals an to observe ratios,,
but wouldnt you say "the best way to remove intersexed expreshion from a seedline is via selfing"?
fem outcrosses are a different story...
selfing defo lowers yeald,,,,propper breeders use selfing to test inderviduals an to observe ratios,,
but wouldnt you say "the best way to remove intersexed expreshion from a seedline is via selfing"?
fem outcrosses are a different story...
funkymonkey
Member
Are you sure selfing reduces yield? Is that something you have experience of - I mean, have you grown a mother plant several times, then selfed that plant and grown out a bunch of the S1s or is it just something you read in a book?
If selfing for several gens has all the negatives that getitreal lists then it can't be of any use to remove intersex because it would just be introduced a load of undesirables in order to remove one other undesirable.
Again, rick, have you actually done a fem outcross?
If selfing for several gens has all the negatives that getitreal lists then it can't be of any use to remove intersex because it would just be introduced a load of undesirables in order to remove one other undesirable.
Again, rick, have you actually done a fem outcross?
I found Mr' Wag's consultant to be spot on, as well as easily understandable.
I just wanna know one thing...
Where does a poor sod get a cut of that striped-snow???
I just wanna know one thing...
Where does a poor sod get a cut of that striped-snow???
yes i have first hand experence but 99.9% of the time my firends grow the weed,,not me
just understanding the basics of inbreeding will tell you that at some point within an entirly inbreeding project yealds get lower,,,,,,book`s help us understand our experence and the experence of our friends,,,,are you expecting to "re-descover" all cannbis plant mechanisms via first-hand experence?
ive grown my Cheese clone for years, in all different enviroments, ive made Cheese S1`s!!,,,ive gown Cheese S1`s!!,,,id like to point out that im sure Cheese S1 yeald more than the Cheese itself but im allso pretty sure that continued selfing would lower the yeald as any extreem inbreeding will!!...
i have the OGKA clone,,,ive grown OGKA S1`s [i didnt make them, but still],, i have the FFA witch is a fem outcross,,,,
are you guys aware of Hardy–Weinberg violations?
just understanding the basics of inbreeding will tell you that at some point within an entirly inbreeding project yealds get lower,,,,,,book`s help us understand our experence and the experence of our friends,,,,are you expecting to "re-descover" all cannbis plant mechanisms via first-hand experence?
ive grown my Cheese clone for years, in all different enviroments, ive made Cheese S1`s!!,,,ive gown Cheese S1`s!!,,,id like to point out that im sure Cheese S1 yeald more than the Cheese itself but im allso pretty sure that continued selfing would lower the yeald as any extreem inbreeding will!!...
i have the OGKA clone,,,ive grown OGKA S1`s [i didnt make them, but still],, i have the FFA witch is a fem outcross,,,,
are you guys aware of Hardy–Weinberg violations?
funkymonkey
Member
I wasn't having a go at ya rick, just asking if you were basing what ya said on book learning of actual experience. I think discovering the inner mechanisms of anything is best done through a balanced approach using both academic knowledge and hands-on experience.
Cheese is probably the lowest yielding shittiest pheno of Skunk #1 I've seen so I'm not surprised the S1s could yield more, I've grown Skunks that yielded 3x what Cheese does nut those were longer flowering ones.
Cheese is probably the lowest yielding shittiest pheno of Skunk #1 I've seen so I'm not surprised the S1s could yield more, I've grown Skunks that yielded 3x what Cheese does nut those were longer flowering ones.
Black Jack [Sweet? Seeds].. 50+ something days,, force flowered from seedling,, natural sunlight,, feminized genetics
This plant has problems,, could be generic, could be environmental.
Some do 15g ,, others make upto 400g per plant depends on the plant,, Skunks an open IBL in that sense.
This plant has problems,, could be generic, could be environmental.
Some do 15g ,, others make upto 400g per plant depends on the plant,, Skunks an open IBL in that sense.
funkymonkey
Member
What problems does that plant have, the petioles are rather long, which is a sign of low light conditions but i don't see much else wrong with it apart from the small yield.
Let me clarify what I meant about Cheese being low yielding, it's a 9 week Afghan leaning pheno of Skunk, whereas the 12-13 week phenos, particularly the fluffy looking Mexican leaning phenos can yield 3x as much given the same conditions, pot size etc. Compared to most other Dutch skunky lines, the Cheese cutting would be below average yield.
Let me clarify what I meant about Cheese being low yielding, it's a 9 week Afghan leaning pheno of Skunk, whereas the 12-13 week phenos, particularly the fluffy looking Mexican leaning phenos can yield 3x as much given the same conditions, pot size etc. Compared to most other Dutch skunky lines, the Cheese cutting would be below average yield.
