WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[englishrick]

to find the best phenos,,, sometimes you need to look trough many seeds,,,,the hetrogeneous advantage is too big to miss out on,,,,its like packing divercity into a plant,,an divercity is allways advantgious

 

[funkymonkey]

I grow seeds every run, I always have a few clones in there that I can rely on, but there's always a few seeds plants thrown in for shits n giggles too. I like to flower em as soon as they sprout and ruthlessly cull anything that doesn't grow well or shows any issues, I start more seeds than I will have room to flower out, expecting a high cull to keep ratio. I got one cutting I worked with for over 5 years that I selected from over 70 seeds, starting 10 at a time, they were bagseed but I knew that killer pheno was in there, just finding it was tough.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

I grow seeds every run, I always have a few clones in there that I can rely on, but there's always a few seeds plants thrown in for shits n giggles too. I like to flower em as soon as they sprout and ruthlessly cull anything that doesn't grow well or shows any issues, I start more seeds than I will have room to flower out, expecting a high cull to keep ratio. I got one cutting I worked with for over 5 years that I selected from over 70 seeds, starting 10 at a time, they were bagseed but I knew that killer pheno was in there, just finding it was tough.

nice going mate! selection for the win 1 from 70 would have you with a great plant! but if you started 10 at a time, does that mean you kept say 1 from each of 7 runs, then chose your fav out of those 7?

 

[stagger lee]

For those of you saying dutch passion is a joke and just jumping on the feminized bandwagon is a joke in itself. theyve spent more loot,longer, on researching feminized seeds than any other company. Almost laughable to think those who've been doing it longer and spending more than any1 else still cant figure out the correct selection process to create and offer worthy feminized seeds.

 

[BENJI]

Stagger for the last time OBVIOUSLY you haven't read or taken any of the facts into consideration there is no CORRECT way it is all about selection of the parents how many times do you have to be told,,

And for like the 100th time which breeders do offer worthy feminized seeds.

Do some research were you born with a spoon in your mouth i don't think so, Any1 wanting to go with Fems best do their research i know i like to research and find out as much as i can before i spend my money on any seeds at all period...

Your consistent arguing and ignorance is getting old fast look at the facts ive dealt with many fem seeds any many normal seeds and i have found more "Hermies" as we like to call it in normal seeds so once again it all goes back to SELECTION of the parents when are you going to realize that...?

 

[hartstocht]

I do love a good arguement


Sometimes people just want to be as right as they can even when they are so very wrong. It has resulted in a mighty fine debate though.

 

[stagger lee]

yeah, I must be ignorant, cause I see nothing wrong w/asking which breeders are selecting correctly and producing feminized seeds worthy of the price their asking? Thats what grow forums are all about.Why learn the hard way and buy shitty seeds from shitty breeders if you can find out from fellow growers.

 

[Baba Ku]

For those of you saying dutch passion is a joke and just jumping on the feminized bandwagon is a joke in itself. theyve spent more loot,longer, on researching feminized seeds than any other company. Hard to jump on the wagon when your already driving it!Almost laughable to think those who've been doing it longer and spending more than any1 else still cant figure out the "correct way".And if true,then many breeders arent creating feminized the "correct" way and with that a higher # of herm probs. Regardless if theres a "right way" of creating feminized seeds(w/no probs) most arent doing it. theres several good breeders that have been called out in this thread for creating them the wrong way. Doesnt this prove that there are more problems with fem seeds than with standard? Why arent they on the same page? Do these breeders not have access to this same info?

And for like the 100th time which breeders do offer worthy feminized seeds. Any1 wanting to go w/fem genetics need to know who's a joke and who aint? Who's doing proper selection and offering fem seeds that are worth the "taxed" price? Any1 that takes the time to read this entire thread still comes out with nothing unless/until given this info....still the same old arguement?

Selective breeding, like any other occupation, has the good in with the bad. The learned in with the non-learned. Selective breeding seeds for commercial sales means that one has to adhere to what could be considered as "industry strandards" that dictate much of the methodology used by most. Going outside of that box can lead to problems with the consuming public, and sales can suffer as a result. People that are in the business for monetary gain are usually up on the latest technologies. They may not employ all of these technologies in their system for what ever reason, but most all of them know what is what when it comes to selective breeding.

That includes the knowledge of manipulating sexual expression mechanisms that cannabis possesses. It may not be common knowledge within the general consuming population, as the science is such that only the truly interested would ever attempt to delve into the specifics. But the commercial breeder knows all about it, and that you can trust. But this leaves the door open for rumors and hearsay to infiltrate the general public, as they usually don't know the specifics.

To try and convince a person the worth of feminizing seeds as a part of a breeding strategy is a meaningless venture without bringing specific information concerning genetics. And unless the person who is to be convinced does not care to fully understand the science behind the concept, they will never fully grasp the worth of the thing.

For what it's worth, my thoughts are that it makes no difference if a breeder is providing fem seeds or reg seeds, the selective process uses the very same criteria, and the resulting progeny of a selection is a product of that selection process, and nothing more.
Also, forcing is probably the fastest way to stabilize a true breeding mother plant.

Also for what it's worth, plants have been forced for a generation now, and it is NOT a new thing by any standards. The science is solid. Any problems that are seen in fem seeds can all be traced back to the selection process. Although Mother Nature calls dibs on all things and will do as she pleases sometimes.

 

[G.O. Joe]

I was reading this article, that has been mentioned and quoted from here and everywhere else for years, the first in the "The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa" series, and there was this little quote in it that struck me and I thought I'd mention it here. The pdf is easily found with google from the publisher, but I quote from the html because they don't bother using an OCR program that works correctly for their pdf. So why add OCR at all then?

Constitution of inbred lines:
All parentals used in this study were doubly inbred plants (S2's) obtained through the self-fertilization of selected female clones from the Cannabis collection of HortaPharm B.V., The Netherlands. The original plants had either CBD or THC as the predominant cannabinoid. The 00.45.1 clone was an exception, having both CBD and THC in similar amounts. The clones were obtained through in vivo propagation of lateral branches. An individual from each clone was partially sex reversed according to the procedure described by MOHAN RAM and SETT 1982 Down and allowed to self-pollinate in isolation. In many cases it was possible to collect sufficient viable seed to constitute a first-generation inbred line (S1), which was completely female and showing the same chemotype as the parental clone. The 00.45.1 S1, however, segregated into pure CBD, mixed CBD-THC, and pure THC individuals.

They dropped that in there casually and they treat that very lightly. That clone was "Afghani-Skunk hybrid". The Mohan Ram/Sett procedure is of course STS.

 

[DocLeaf]

For those of you saying dutch passion is a joke and just jumping on the feminized bandwagon is a joke in itself. theyve spent more loot,longer, on researching feminized seeds than any other company.

In the garden,, Dutch Passion produce the most unstable feminized seeds of ALL the feminized seeds currently available to homegrowers. We sow out feminized seeds all the time as testers and we wouldn't touch Dutch Passion again with a barge-pole,, not even if they where free... regardless of how much money they spent on research and development.

Let's keep things real and in perspective shall we.

Hope this helps

 

[englishrick]

doc,,,are you talking about dutchpassion`s blueberry?,,,because that 1 was bound to flop as an S1,,all the choco thai intersexed issues were bound to rise to the surfice in the S1,,imho

DP didnt work the intersexed traits out of the Bluebery beffore sendeing it out as a fem,,,silly if you ask me,, but im sure they will have had more luck on the other lines,,,S1 aint allways full of the intersexed isses,,it depends on the plant used in the feminization,,imo

 

[hoosierdaddy]

DP didnt work the intersexed traits out of the Bluebery beffore sendeing it out as a fem,,,silly if you ask me,,

Precisely! That is the root of most ALL of the arguing that gets done on this topic. Had they actually had a better understanding of what they were doing, the community would be a better place now.
This whole thing stems back to the issue DP had with it's less than desirable method of breeding.
(Poor fucking selection is the bottom line).

 

[englishrick]

absoloutly hooz!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

There are probably hundreds of threads with "feminized" or "feminised" in the title alone (or some other form of the word.) Some of them aren't replete with personal battles. Some concepts are supported by general botany experiments and some are cannabis related. There are countless more that consider selection techniques that haven't anything to do with feminization in general.

As far as proper, documented methods, I'm not sure how many of those you'll find. It's as broad as it is long, much info reads like consideration or speculation rather than practical application. It's worth considering some of what others are sharing in whatever form they may choose to express. Creative ways to bash others just makes it harder to find info worth the time to read.

 

[Azra'eil]

oh common fellows stop this, its unnecessary and not very productive, is this why the thread was re-open ? to fight again ? please, im nobody but stop now, thanks
sincerely

Az

 

[Chimera]

This whole forum sucks.....isn't it supposed to be the repository of higher knowledge and discussion on ICMAG? It most certainly has failed in that endeavour.

The OG Breeder's Lab was far, far superior in terms of signal to noise ratio.

A good start would be a solid house cleaning, a banishment of those who can't contribute respectfully and on topic, and maybe stop letting just anyone start threads in the lab, only moving the best and most promising threads from S%H like we used to do @ OG?

Respectfully,
-Chimera

 

[DMXAK47]

This whole forum sucks.....isn't it supposed to be the repository of higher knowledge and discussion on ICMAG? It most certainly has failed in that endeavour.

The OG Breeder's Lab was far, far superior in terms of signal to noise ratio.

A good start would be a solid house cleaning, a banishment of those who can't contribute respectfully and on topic, and maybe stop letting just anyone start threads in the lab, only moving the best and most promising threads from S%H like we used to do @ OG?

Respectfully,
-Chimera

i havent followed or read through this thread but was wondering chimera whats your take on fem seeds and do you ever plan to put some fem strains out?

 

[Chimera]

Chimera Seeds will NEVER offer feminized seeds. I will however offer TRUE GYNOECIOUS releases in the next couple of years. 'Feminization' or 'Feminized' seeds are marketing terms, not plant breeding terms. I think feminized seeds have problems because that's what they are: poorly "feminized" version or the same - not a true gynoecious populations.

I have been working with gynoecious selections for the better part of a decade and have parallel gynoecious populations of almost all of my lines.

The creation of gynoecious lines is a technique- an ends to a means, and not a result per se. They are neither all good nor all bad. Anyone that espouses either position as 'the only way' is missing the point, IMHO. The seeds are only as good as the technique used to create them, and the genetic contributions of the selections on which they were based. The future health of the population is directly dependent on the genetic diversity contained therein.

I did an interview with Dolce Vita a couple of years back (an Italian cannabis mag) and one of the questions was about 'feminized seeds and whether feminized seeds would ruin the global cannabis genepool'... my reply was that I was far more concerned with the technique of 1:1 matings, genetic bottle necks and founder events than the creation of feminized seeds per se. Why? Because 1:1 matings significantly reduces the genetic diversity wihin any given line.

The creation of gynoecious populations can be achieved without 1:1 matings. They are not mutually inclusive. The problem in my eyes is that the vast majority (perhaps even ALL) of the current 'feminized' seeds are produced by 1:1 matings. People sit around and try to argue that they are bad because they are 'feminized'... whereas in my opinion, if they created using proper technique (ie - NOT something silly like "Rodelization').... they are of ill genetic health because of the fact that they are products of 1:1 matings schemes, and not the result of 'feminization' in and of itself.

Make sense?.

Respectfully,
-Chimera

 

[FreshGenetics]

Chimera Seeds will NEVER offer feminized seeds. I will however offer TRUE GYNOECIOUS releases in the next couple of years. 'Feminization' or 'Feminized' seeds are marketing terms, not plant breeding terms. I think feminized seeds have problems because that's what they are: poorly "feminized" version or the same - not a true gynoecious populations.

I have been working with gynoecious selections for the better part of a decade and have parallel gynoecious populations of almost all of my lines.

The creation of gynoecious lines is a technique- an ends to a means, and not a result per se. They are neither all good nor all bad. Anyone that espouses either position as 'the only way' is missing the point, IMHO. The seeds are only as good as the technique used to create them, and the genetic contributions of the selections on which they were based. The future health of the population is directly dependent on the genetic diversity contained therein.

I did an interview with Dolce Vita a couple of years back (an Italian cannabis mag) and one of the questions was about 'feminized seeds and whether feminized seeds would ruin the global cannabis genepool'... my reply was that I was far more concerned with the technique of 1:1 matings, genetic bottle necks and founder events than the creation of feminized seeds per se. Why? Because 1:1 matings significantly reduces the genetic diversity wihin any given line.

The creation of gynoecious populations can be achieved without 1:1 matings. They are not mutually inclusive. The problem in my eyes is that the vast majority (perhaps even ALL) of the current 'feminized' seeds are produced by 1:1 matings. People sit around and try to argue that they are bad because they are 'feminized'... whereas in my opinion, if they created using proper technique (ie - NOT something silly like "Rodelization').... they are of ill genetic health because of the fact that they are products of 1:1 matings schemes, and not the result of 'feminization' in and of itself.

Make sense?.

Respectfully,
-Chimera

This was a great post!

 

[englishrick]

chimera has a good point,,1:1 is of large concerne,,,look at DJ,,,my mate GreenIntheThumb calls DJ the king of of 1:1 ,,,,,,

once Ne numbers hit rock bottom all figin hell brakes lose,,,,the rate of mutation must be of some thought??,,,DP picked a bad 1 to sell S1`s from imo,,