Why are you still growing organic?

[Dignan]

Perfectly-said, H3ed. Yes, bro- I get it now.

I'm not against using synthetic nutrients and if I ever go back to experimenting with all the new synth products, I WILL be hitting you up via PM because you're obviously using the thinking-man's synthetic regimen. Good on ya.

 

[Guest]

I think the dirt gives the weed character, like grapes for wine. I am not above using chemicals if an organic alternative is not available. The same applies if the organic is priced ridiculous. We are dealing with shit and what's left over at the cannery not platinum. I could not myself take care of 200 plants in pots indoors there would be tons of dirt. That is a case when hydro would be much easier to take care of. Pounds of chemicals and water vs. tons of dirt and shit. Gratfulhead has it as close as it gets.

 

[Mr Celsius]

Sure, there is no perfectly right or perfectly wrong... That's pretty much a given and I would never argue anything of the sort... More suited to and less suited to would be much more accurate to my stance. I NEVER said that either one was innapropriate, I said that one method is better suited to indoor and one method is better suited to outdoor. You can't really argue with that.

Also... there definitely ARE right and wrong ways to grow a plant... The people that have to post up "help, there is something wrong with my plant" threads are not growing the right way... The right way to do something gives the best results... The wrong way to do it has lots of consequences all the way from "diminished yield" or "crappy burn" up to "dead Plant"...

Your analogy does point to why I use purified mineral nutrients, If you make Hydroponics the airplane...

I hope I'm not coming off as too relativistic. What I mean by, this is no wrong or right, is that if it isn't being successful, you/anybody are just not doing it right.

Again, with the airplane: People attempted to fly be strapping wings onto themselves and jumping off of hills. It could work, but just wasn't worked correctly. I mean to say that there is a right and wrong way of doing something, depending on the system or implementation of said project.

I still have to disagree that synthetics are more efficient. Well... lets define what efficient is.

From dictionary.com: Efficient

1. performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort; having and using requisite knowledge, skill, and industry; competent; capable: a reliable, efficient secretary.

Now if we accept this definition, then I can't see how synthetics are more efficient. Nor am I saying that organics is more efficient. If you have knowledge in one field and the resources at hand, the amount of time spent to earn money, so that you may buy resources, then they take the same amounts of time. How deep do we want to go into efficiency.... do we wanna measure every ounce of time going into the project; including time spent to earn money for materials?

Do we want to measure the consequences for using organic fertilizers that aren't sustainable, along with synthetic nutrients? Are they efficient for the earth and circuitously inefficient for our everyday lives?

This could go very deep, thats why there is no right and wrong way of approaching something. I believe with knowledge, resources and time, humans can do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

They're more efficient because they provide exactly and only what the plant needs in the most available form in the correct ratios.

Time to earn money for materials... lol
1 gallon of GH micro $32... 1 gallon of GH Bloom $25...
473 gallons of nutrient solution for 57$... Enough of everything other than sunlight air and water to grow 8 pounds of buds... Nutrient cost of 44¢ per ounce of bud... pretty damn efficient, especially when using reuseable media...

I'm not going to argue this with you anymore, your concept of right and wrong is irrelevant to any of my points... I'll continue to stand by every word I've printed here... Hydro is more efficient indoors for any grow of any significant size.

Here's what one of the organic forum moderators said of Hydro...

Hydro is idot proof, any asshole can follow a Luca Formula and get a great crop, if you use RO water in ANY hydro system with AN or GH and boosters.

So... With that being said... Anyone with any skill or intelligence, who puts a bit of thought and research into it, and then applies years of growing experience and a willingness to test things out... well, then you get a really great crop... efficiently and easily.

 

[Tom Hill]

I'll stand by every word you've printed here as well, & the moderators comment was correct & to the point. I think organics are more forgiving but also much more difficult to really master- a lot of folks are claiming the former to be the draw, but I think it's the latter that keeps plenty coming back, much more room for advancement. Admit it, save the hippy dippy crap. You guys are gluttens for punishment & hungry for personal advancement/achievement- just like me

 

[Suby]

Here's what one of the organic forum moderators said of Hydro...


Quote:
Hydro is idot proof, any asshole can follow a Luca Formula and get a great crop, if you use RO water in ANY hydro system with AN or GH and boosters.

I said that and in fact I totally stand by that comment, I make no apologies for my methods or for my love of organics.


Suby

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Excellent, so Me, Suby, and Tom all agree that hydroponics is simple and efficient enough so that anyone who can read and measure can grow a great crop, and It logically follows that Hydroponics done with proper care and attention by a skilled grower can grow an awesome crop.

I don't fault anyone for their love of organics, I applaud love of organics, in fact... It's hate toward hydroponics and/or hydro growers that annoys me... Growers who really take the time to properly grow organically I respect, Growers who really take the time to grow hydro properly deserve my respect as well... but, People who buy organic potting soil and dump PBP on it and think they're superior or holier because of it annoy the shit out of me...

Respect to all of you who take the time and care to grow proper herb...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Upon further reflection... I guess there is a big difference between an organic method of growing and growing using organic products... And I guess the thing that bothers me is the latter thinking they are the former... In my mind, simply buying organic products to use in alot of the types of indoor set-ups which utilize no organic principles (running to waste and disposable non-sustainable media and the like) is not organic growing by a long shot... By the same token, in my opinion, refined mineral nutrients can be used with organic principles and responsible methods like using lowered concentrations and recyclable renewable media and systems which involve little to no waste and such...

Proper organic growers who use truly organic methods absolutely have good reason to be proud of their skills... So do hydro growers who produce organic quality buds with organic principles in mind...

 

[Johnny Rotten]

I would also like to add that most organic growers have a much greater symbiosis with their plants than hydro growers. Hydro works so well and is so idiot proof that the growers don't develop a real "feel" for their plants, they rely on them not having any problems. Then when the shit hits the fan they are so damn lost it isn't funny. The really good hydro growers i know started in dirt and went from there.

 

[Dignan]

Nice posts H3ad, everyone.

It's all so subjective... varies by person, their abilities, their values, their situation.

From my own quirky Dignan perspective , hydro seems to me like a very volatile way of growing, not user-friendly at all for the novice grower. I rarely poke my head into hydro forums, I admit, but when I do it sure seems like the problems they are experiencing are plentiful and, more dangerously, when a problem manifests itself, the plants can be fried in a matter of hours. Scary stuff.

My perception is that hydro takes as long to dial in as growing organically does.

To be perfectly honest and frank with you all, I think they're both absolute child's play in the grand scheme of things. I mean, compared to learning to rebuild the engine on my air-cooled Volkswagen, growing weed is the vestigial Piece of Cake. It's a cliche but it's true: it's a weed. It practically grows itself. This ain't rocket science. It ain't even a junior high science fair. LOL

To say that organics is somehow complex is silly, IMO. I mean, if you think simply needing to have 10-12 "ingredients" on hand is somehow complex ... well I guess organic soil may be "complex."

But if that's considered complex, then so is baking a cake or making pasta sauce.

Both of those things are, of course, very simple. And so is organics, IMO. Take soil, add 1 cup of this, 2 TBS of that, 1 TSP of that...... fill a container with it, add a seedling, water from a good source. SIMPLE.

Understanding what is happening in soil biology, on the other hand, requires quite a bit of work and knowledge. And experimentation. That's where it becomes complex.

So that being the case, I guess part of my love of growing in organic soil stems from the fact that, to truly understand what is happening within healthy, organic soil, you must really dive deep into a bunch of wonderful science/biology. It gives you a whole new expanse of knowledge and challenges to tackle.

Which is attractive after you've spent an extended amount of time growing a plant that can grow itself and are looking for more to learn and understand.

 

[Guest]

The infirmary is a case in point that "any idiot" can do neither. Most cases are sad, too much love. Neutes organic or not will not make up for stupidity. Plants wont grow in the dark. There is no albino New York sewer pot with albino gators guarding it. The point I can not agree with is any idiot can grow it. Most idiots don't inhale it anyway. So why would they bother growing it? Dialling in an organic soil mix from scratch takes, record keeping, and patience. Neither takes an extreme intelligence level to master. notebooks and pencils are the most useful tools. Honestly it took 3 organic grows to get the soil finished.The second grow had way to much longer acting nutrients that flushing could not help. The third grow ran out of neuts just as the girls finished. Last and least was the first organic grow. That was the funniest looking grow, buds 6 inches long and 1 calyx wide. I cured it and give it to moochers they don't ask again. Its easy now but organic grow number 1 was hard and I still consider it a loss. I have enough organics for 6 more grows. After that I may be growing another way. Taking what I learned from organics with me. Maybe I will get some self watering pots to ease me into the transition. I have nothing against organics or chem-weed. I have given everyone K+ or karma(That I could), no one who posted was belligerent or condescending. This truly has been a debate. Nobody seemed as "idiots". The idiots were too busy running nations to post.

 

[guest123]

without producing it yourself ,,, i find organic fertalizers are not that easy to come across ,, in fact ive found pretty well all of them seem to say organically based ....
given what is fed to chickens etc ,, you couldnt really call their manure totally organic , nor could u say the same for blood and bone ???
i wouldnt consider it totally organic unless i made my own ... then u will know whats in there ....

 

[Mr Celsius]

They're more efficient because they provide exactly and only what the plant needs in the most available form in the correct ratios.

Time to earn money for materials... lol
1 gallon of GH micro $32... 1 gallon of GH Bloom $25...
473 gallons of nutrient solution for 57$... Enough of everything other than sunlight air and water to grow 8 pounds of buds... Nutrient cost of 44¢ per ounce of bud... pretty damn efficient, especially when using reuseable media...

I'm not going to argue this with you anymore, your concept of right and wrong is irrelevant to any of my points... I'll continue to stand by every word I've printed here... Hydro is more efficient indoors for any grow of any significant size.

If you look at the definition of efficient, it pretty much screams better-then. So your saying that hydro is better then organics.



You don't want to debate with me anymore because you can't prove me wrong.

 

[Dignan]

I don't see that H3ad was trying to prove anyone wrong. ??
----------------------
The term organic as used in food production is subjective, to be sure. Thus all the trouble with the organic food industry regulation currently. My organic growing is more about methods than source of materials. I try to find the cleanest/purest forms of everything that I can, but I'm not out to earn a certification from the US Dept of Agriculture, so if the chicken poo my neighbors give me came from chickens who were fed Cheerios as part fo their diet, and Cheerios are not Certified Organic, I'm not too concerned about that.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

If you look at the definition of efficient, it pretty much screams better-then. So your saying that hydro is better then organics.



You don't want to debate with me anymore because you can't prove me wrong.

Nope... the definition of efficient is not 'better than'... I won't argue anymore because you just want to argue... wanting to focus more on your disection of what you think I might have meant, than on what I've said...

Peace and Love... And good day

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I would also like to add that most organic growers have a much greater symbiosis with their plants than hydro growers. Hydro works so well and is so idiot proof that the growers don't develop a real "feel" for their plants, they rely on them not having any problems. Then when the shit hits the fan they are so damn lost it isn't funny. The really good hydro growers i know started in dirt and went from there.

Indeed... learning organics you learn to read your plants not to read charts and meters... That is what makes the difference in a good grower, you are absolutely right... That's how I grow with my mineral nutrients, by reading my plants (I don't own one single meter)...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I don't see that H3ad was trying to prove anyone wrong. ??
----------------------
The term organic as used in food production is subjective, to be sure. Thus all the trouble with the organic food industry regulation currently. My organic growing is more about methods than source of materials. I try to find the cleanest/purest forms of everything that I can, but I'm not out to earn a certification from the US Dept of Agriculture, so if the chicken poo my neighbors give me came from chickens who were fed Cheerios as part fo their diet, and Cheerios are not Certified Organic, I'm not too concerned about that.

I agree with that as well... I try to find the cleanest purest forms of every element a plant needs to live and grow... I found them all in GH flora series, but there are plenty of other ways too...

I also agree with wally, unless it's yours produced by you, then you don't know exactly how organic it is... That's taking your organics seriously, eh...

 

[Gumbala]

Jumping late on this one, but my girlfriend works for Amy's Kitchen , who are one of the top Organic Food Producers here in California. The trouble they have to go through and all Organic Food Producers is very strict.

In this sense , it does not relate well with how "organic" growers view themselves. One would be amazed at how people claim organic , yet use chem's in the mix as if the flush would hide it all!

Personally I very much dislike herb grown with GH. GH started right around the corner from me, been to the warehouse, first products pretty much at the hydro depot etc.. So i know plenty of herb grown with their set products. If you dont use anything else but the grow micro bloom then your herb just wont taste as good "usually". Just mix in something "organic". However I do like the Floranova, Floralicious herb, but then again is this really and organic product?

Either way , Ive grown strictly organic in Hydro, using only seabird guano and I popped a very tasty crop. I had done organic type ferts in hydro for a long time, until i realized you cant go away for long , a pump might clog, PGE might go out etc.. So i switched back to soil.

A good grower can grow without a chart, meter, etc.. Shit I usually just eyeball my nutes , check for how the plants react and adjust.


And I always say LESS IS MORE!!

 

[Loudcall]

Octodiem....and H3ad much love you guys your right on it my friends.... Both Hydro and Organics can be done efficient if utilized right....If you can't post with respect dont post at all....We may not be all professionals on here but we should conduct ourselves in a professional way....And that person knows who they are....I respect anyones method just as long as it's done safely....And if it tastes like chemicals they used too much fertilizer, and they did'nt flush properly....And the same goes with organics also excess is a sin where I come from, too much of anything is'nt good....So everyone can we all just get along here. And get good at whatever grow method that YOU prefer....

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Jumping late on this one, but my girlfriend works for Amy's Kitchen , who are one of the top Organic Food Producers here in California. The trouble they have to go through and all Organic Food Producers is very strict.

In this sense , it does not relate well with how "organic" growers view themselves. One would be amazed at how people claim organic , yet use chem's in the mix as if the flush would hide it all!

Personally I very much dislike herb grown with GH. GH started right around the corner from me, been to the warehouse, first products pretty much at the hydro depot etc.. So i know plenty of herb grown with their set products. If you dont use anything else but the grow micro bloom then your herb just wont taste as good "usually". Just mix in something "organic". However I do like the Floranova, Floralicious herb, but then again is this really and organic product?

Either way , Ive grown strictly organic in Hydro, using only seabird guano and I popped a very tasty crop. I had done organic type ferts in hydro for a long time, until i realized you cant go away for long , a pump might clog, PGE might go out etc.. So i switched back to soil.

A good grower can grow without a chart, meter, etc.. Shit I usually just eyeball my nutes , check for how the plants react and adjust.


And I always say LESS IS MORE!!

I use nothing but micro and bloom...
I've had several organic growers tell me my weed taste and smells organic... I think it is as good as any organic I've had anywhere... I've never had an organic grower smoking my weed have one single negative comment about the smoke, quite the contrary...
You simply cannot tell me any different because I know better from experience...

Other than the statements about GH, I agree 100% with your post...


On a side note... It sure would be fun if everyone would participate in the growers cup this april... Then we could compare the score sheets with the methods used...