War

[So Hai]

Yes I have..

Yeah, you look like you have an interesting book shelf for true. Which version did you read and was there a part of it that you found more important or insightful to your understanding?

 

[So Hai]

They do a good job in these articles to explain things.

Redemption through genocide

The ICJ ruled that Israel’s Gaza campaign poses a plausible and urgent threat of genocide. Future historians of Jewish messianism may recount how in 2024 “redemption through sin” became “redemption through genocide,” with unconditional U.S. support.

mondoweiss.net

‘We are the masters of the house’: Israeli channels air snuff videos featuring systematic torture of Palestinians

Israeli TV channels aired a number of reports showing the torture and humiliation of Palestinians in Israeli prisons. The videos are consumed by the Israeli public as entertainment, revealing the sadism of Israeli society.

mondoweiss.net

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

 

[Cannavore]

 

[moose eater]

Yeah, but "they're (IDF) not targeting civilians (intentionally)."

And you should see the presents Santa brought me for Christmas, or the chocolates the Easter Bunny brought to me.

Just like the Germans who stood by and did nothing when the Jews were being loaded onto railway cars, because the rumors of what was really happening couldn't possibly be true. And the Nazi propaganda proved the rumors were wrong, right?

Apathetic mostly apolitical mental dodgers with blood on their hands, directly or not.

 

[Chi13]

That has changed my mind, but only somewhat.

I think it was after the 30 minute mark before they even mentioned Hamas! It's as if they think that Israel is only targeting civilians. Nothing about Hamas tactics of hiding amongst civilians. Nothing about Hamas stated aim being genocide. The whole tone around this debate is as if Hamas weren't part of the equation.

I'll ask what I did earlier. If Hamas were actually defeated completely, would Israel continue with the "genocide"?

If Hamas were to win (impossible but hypothetically) would they wipe out the Jewish population? No need to answer as we already know.

 

[moose eater]

That has changed my mind, but only somewhat.

I think it was after the 30 minute mark before they even mentioned Hamas! It's as if they think that Israel is only targeting civilians. Nothing about Hamas tactics of hiding amongst civilians. Nothing about Hamas stated aim being genocide. The whole tone around this debate is as if Hamas weren't part of the equation.

I'll ask what I did earlier. If Hamas were actually defeated completely, would Israel continue with the "genocide"?

If Hamas were to win (impossible but hypothetically) would they wipe out the Jewish population? No need to answer as we already know.

Israel was forcibly removing Palestinians, stealing land and homes in Palestine, and massacring Palestinians as part of their land grab 39 years before Hamas even existed, if that (ought to) answers your first question.

It's almost as though people can't seem to understand where this shit all started.

Now maybe find the interview I posted more than a week or 2 ago with the Jewish Arab professor, born in Iraq, and moved to the new State of Israel in 1948, who talks about the increase in violence toward Palestinians that followed, who initiated that, and why.

Many are seemingly willing to look past Israel's (then) newly arrived European Jews as the initial source of the violence, despite there being lots of evidence available, including from Arab Jews..

Though my favorite (disgusting) comments depicting an insulated reality (demonstrated by too many) revolve around how Joe's OK, because he's "good for our economy" and (maybe) lies less than Trump. As though those points somehow eclipse the significance of Israel's and the US' commission of genocide in Palestine or are even somehow comparable. Or the fact that to even compare our economic well-being with genocide as equally balanced factors points toward collective sociopathy and selfish ego-centric nationalism beyond measure.

By the way, whatever Hamas -MIGHT- do if they were victorious against the 4th most powerful military in the entire world, Israel -IS- doing in the here and now. Period. And they've been doing it for 75 years, albeit more slowly in the past than today. No 'maybes' about it. Think on that for a moment or 2..

 

[moose eater]

Here, I made it easier.

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

 

[Chi13]

Israel was forcibly removing Palestinians, stealing land and homes in Palestine, and massacring Palestinians as part of their land grab 39 years before Hamas even existed, if that (ought to) answer your first question.

It's almost as though people can't seem to understand where this shit all started.

Now maybe find the interview I posted more than a week or 2 ago with the Jewish Arab professor, born in Iraq, and moved to the new State of Israel in 1948, who talks about the increase in violence toward Palestinians that followed, who initiated that, and why.

Many are seemingly willing to look past Israel's (then) newly arrived European Jews as the initial source of the violence, despite there being lots of evidence available, including from Arab Jews..

During the early conflict there were horrific atrocities on both sides, including infants slaughtered. Is your view that Israel shouldn't exist? I have mixed views on this but the fact is the State does exists now. I can understand why it does in the context of the holocaust.
Of course I am aware of the land grabs and the context. However it goes both ways. Hamas have been lobbing rockets at Israel for as long as I remember, not military targets either.

Though my favorite (disgusting) comments depicting an insulated reality (demonstrated by too many) revolve around how Joe's OK, because he's "good for our economy" and (maybe) lies less than Trump. As though those points somehow eclipse the significance of Israel's and the US' commission of genocide in Palestine or are even somehow comparable. Or the fact that to even compare our economic well-being with genocide as equally balanced factors points toward collective sociopathy and selfish ego-centric nationalism beyond measure.

By the way, whatever Hamas -MIGHT- do if they were victorious against the 4th most powerful military in the entire world, Israel -IS- doing in the here and now. Period. And they've been doing it for 75 years, albeit more slowly in the past than today. No 'maybes' about it. Think on that for a moment or 2..

I disagree with your last bit. Hamas have already stated, and demonstrated, that they would commit wholesale slaughter, by that I mean every citizen. The Israeli's are not doing that, although I agree that certainly some within the ADF are.
As I have said earlier, I really am not taking sides, and I loath that I am seeming defending Israel, but I just see this debate as very one sided.

 

[moose eater]

During the early conflict there were horrific atrocities on both sides, including infants slaughtered. Is your view that Israel shouldn't exist? I have mixed views on this but the fact is the State does exists now. I can understand why it does in the context of the holocaust.
Of course I am aware of the land grabs and the context. However it goes both ways. Hamas have been lobbing rockets at Israel for as long as I remember, not military targets either.

I disagree with your last bit. Hamas have already stated, and demonstrated, that they would commit wholesale slaughter, by that I mean every citizen. The Israeli's are not doing that, although I agree that certainly some within the ADF are.
As I have said earlier, I really am not taking sides, and I loath that I am seeming defending Israel, but I just see this debate as very one sided.

Israel as we know it now was formed by UN decree and 'treaty'. The boundaries were shortly thereafter blown, and Palestinian land was seized during the 1948 Nakba, during which no Israeli land was lost.

To date, no Israeli land has been taken by Palestine. The same can obviously -not- be said of Israel taking Palestinian land.

Again, there is ONE country involved here that has routinely taken another's land and killed without consequence... and really without just cause.

The dismissal of significance in this by some who claim that 'both sides operate out of religious fanaticism' is based in a fallacy for the most part (currently). The Zionists hide behind obscure and inaccurate (Jewish) religious beliefs that they are somehow entitled to Palestine, despite going well beyond the land granted and identified in the creation of Israel in 1948. Those who are not fanatical Muslims in Palestine (the majority from my view), simply want their fucking land back, as would most of us who've built our homes and developed our land.

Please show me the legitimate historical accounts of baby-killing/beheading by Palestinians in the period surrounding the Nakba. I've listened to and read first-hand accounts of the raids on villages by armed Israelis during the Nakba and since.

Please refer to the interviews above for exceptional historical accounts, and there are other accounts of the Nakba, in interview format, involving those who were there.

Israel IS targeting civilians in Palestine, Israel IS lying repeatedly to set up PR so they minimize the loss of backing around the world in their over-ripe, long-expired playing of the holocaust victim card. They're a perpetrator trying to pass themselves off as victims Whiners by any other name. And liars.. In current time, they are most definitely not the 'victims' here..

Israel currently acts in violation of international law where land theft is concerned, where human rights violations are concerned, and where warfare is concerned, and more. These are facts not opinions.

Israel currently has the 4th most modern and mighty military in the world. Hamas has??????? what?

Hamas wouldn't have even come into existence had the decades of abuses by Israel not occurred and had Bibi not been looking for a means by which to sabotage the possibility a 2-state solution..

Land ownership is determined by legal documents and courts, not by religious fallacy taken out of context by those who hope to gain notoriety and wealth.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

The people who were killed at the music festival on October 7th weren't innocent civilians.

Only Israel will kill innocent people.

 

[moose eater]

The adjusted deaths accounting for IDF 'Hannibal Directive'-caused deaths are available, and significantly change the mainstream bullshit numbers. And the 'settlers' certainly look like civilians, despite being murdering land thieves and rapists.

Kill and rape my people with impunity and take my land for 75-years while enforcing an apartheid regime upon me and mine as 'sub-human animals' to be controlled and killed, and yours would be next. Guaranteed.

 

[Chi13]

@moose eater, I will get around to watching some of your videos over the weekend.

Please show me the legitimate historical accounts of baby-killing/beheading by Palestinians in the period surrounding the Nakba. I've listened to and read first-hand accounts of the raids on villages by armed Israelis during the Nakba and since.

I studied Israel as part of a first year history course in 1982 so any reference to that was in books. The reason I remember some 40 years later is that it shocked me. I will see if I can find an online reference.

Sorry, I don't have time to go in depth into the rest of what you've written right now.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Kill and rape my people with impunity and take my land for 75-years while enforcing an apartheid regime upon me and mine as 'sub-human animals' to be controlled and killed, and yours would be next. Guaranteed.

That should fix it.

 

[moose eater]

That should fix it.

I notice an absence of an ability to comprehend proportionality or initiation of criminal events, versus long-running response to those events in your questionable approach to this problem?

Perhaps Ukraine should lay down for peace as well?

By the way, your past deflections and denials fail to properly demonstrate the Zen peacenik persona. That,. and you're back to making strawman arguments in your statements, though likely in sarcasm. Do you know another way or is adolescence the way of the walk at mid-life.

You've got little to teach in this regard, and the hypocrisy and strawman nonsense is thick. Your hypocrisy is showing again.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So you do understand what hypocrisy is...?

I think I will try to get that to sink in.

Back to the murderous hatred for the intermission...

 

[moose eater]