War

[PetePrice]

well, having it known that you possess nuclear weapons helps a bit, don't you think?

it WAS, at one time...sort of. Palestine has never existed as a nation with any government other than the British ruling over the scraps of the Ottoman Empire after WW1. there is no place on earth that i'm aware of where control has never changed hands from one group to another throughout known history. there is no constant besides change. "happiness is best defined by being content with what you have" old sentiment, that.

Yeah never a country nor a state, but was there and occupied, I typed country and that in a bit of anger as well Israel have been cunts for years.

I just don't get people's ambivalence towards a place being wiped out right now not in the past but right now.. mind you the UK have been at this shit for years with Yeman etc just makes me laugh that the west gives a shit when it suits and people just lap it up, I guess most of us thought at some point we would see change and well now i will never see it in my lifetime nor do i think the world has got any better since i was a kid that didnt give a shit.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Yeah never a country nor a state, but was there and occupied, I typed country and that in a bit of anger as well Israel have been cunts for years.

you are going to have to work harder than that to start an argument with me. everything you said is true as far as i know.

 

[Chi13]

Hamas has no power and to frame it like this is Israel Vs Hamas is insane.

There's only one side against a two state solution (which even then is a compromise. Israel should get no land) and it isn't Hamas.

Hamas has every right to defend themselves. And I said the same thing for the Taliban in Afghanistan when we invaded.

How many Israelis actually died by friendly fire on Oct 7th? Israel and Western media is blocking those reports because of the obvious indiscriminate Apache helicopter rounds that were fired into the crowds, at the vehicles, etc.

It's looking more and more like they false flagged those people to steal the rest of the country and to expand into Jordan and elsewhere for the 'greater Israel's project.

The IDF has killed more hostages than it has rescued up to this point. They don't care about hostages lol it's just further justification for their illegal actions.

That's just ridiculous. Honestly, you sound like a Hamas propagandist.

Hamas do not want a two state solution. They've got exactly what they wanted and used the attacks to do it. They want to annihilate the Jews. It has been stated in their charter and more recently stated by a Hamas spokesperson.

Israel's actions have been atrocious regarding civilian casualties, but to pretend Hamas are without blame is just rubbish.

 

[GenghisKush]

Andrew Callaghan is an independent journalist.

 

[Microbeman]

Hamas


That's already HAPPENED and can't be changed...

Perfect response and memory old boy. None of my ancestors were responsible for stealing the house/apartment/farm I live in/on - so I don't need to give it back ~ Cannavore

 

[Microbeman]

it's still happening. it's the longest ongoing apartheid and ethnic cleansing campaign in modern history, maybe ever. the current nakba taking place also outnumbers the 1948 nakba at this point.


also Hamas was founded in the 1980's. you've got 40 years of oppression before Hamas decided they've had enough.

Bullshit; you forget the land where your fat ass sits? Thousands - millions killed so you can get your pizza delivered.

 

[Microbeman]

With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With a Chronic Human Rights Violator – Israel​

Where Do Many Police Departments Train? In Israel

U.S. law enforcement agencies need partners for effective training to strengthen their identified weak areas. Israel is not such a partner.

www.amnestyusa.org

Baltimore law enforcement officials, along with hundreds of others from Florida, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, Arizona, Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Georgia, Washington state as well as the DC Capitol police have all traveled to Israel for training. Thousands of others have received training from Israeli officials here in the U.S..

Many of these trips are taxpayer funded while others are privately funded. Since 2002, the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee’s Project Interchange and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs have paid for police chiefs, assistant chiefs and captains to train in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT).

These trainings put Baltimore police and other U.S. law enforcement employees in the hands of military, security and police systems that have racked up documented human rights violations for years. Amnesty International, other human rights organizations and even the U.S. Department of State have cited Israeli police for carrying out extrajudicial executions and other unlawful killings, using ill treatment and torture (even against children, suppression of freedom of expression/association including through government surveillance, and excessive use of force against peaceful protesters.

Public or private funds spent to train our domestic police in Israel should concern all of us. Many of the abuses documented, parallels violations by Israeli military, security and police officials.

The Department of Justice report cited Baltimore police for using aggressive tactics that “escalate encounters and stifle public cooperation.” This leads, the report said, to use of unreasonable force during interactions for minor infractions, such as quality of life matters. Furthermore, the report details how an overall lack of training leads to excessive force being used against those with mental health issues, juveniles and people who present “little or no threat against others,” such as those already restrained.

For years, Amnesty International has found Israeli military, security and police forces responsible for the same behavior.

In one case, a 28-year-old Palestinian man, not suspected of any crime except being present during a raid, was killed in what appears to have been an extrajudicial execution by Israeli forces, including an undercover police unit, during a raid on al-Ahli hospital in Hebron November 2015.

Eyewitnesses report that when Israeli forces entered the hospital room where the suspect was recuperating, they immediately shot his cousin. There was no attempt to arrest him or to use non-lethal alternatives before shooting him dead. This is one example among many.

geez - I guess they could not do ANYTHING without US support. (I do not support them in this but they can do much more than you think without US support)

 

[mean mr.mustard]

if the US and the West didn't protect israel with our tax dollars they would have already been blown off the map. it's not an organic country.

You should probably be able to see that there's similarities you may be overlooking.

If Israel is not then neither is ours.

 

[Cannavore]

That's just ridiculous. Honestly, you sound like a Hamas propagandist.

Hamas do not want a two state solution. They've got exactly what they wanted and used the attacks to do it. They want to annihilate the Jews. It has been stated in their charter and more recently stated by a Hamas spokesperson.

Israel's actions have been atrocious regarding civilian casualties, but to pretend Hamas are without blame is just rubbish.

A timeline of Hamas truce proposals:​

• 1988: Just one year after the group was founded, Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar met the late top Israeli officials Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, and proposed that Israel withdraw from the 1967-occupied territories in exchange for a truce. This was before Hamas had built its armed wing, the Qassam Brigades. Also, in 1988, Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmad Yasin himself indicated a willingness to negotiate with Israel under the condition that it “first acknowledge the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination and right of return to their land”.
• 1994: Hamas offered a truce to Israel after the abduction and killing of Israeli soldier Nachshon Wachsman. A year earlier, the Palestinian Authority (PA) had accepted the proposal of a Palestinian state comprised of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. Hamas agreed to that proposal.
• 1995: Hamas again proposed a 10-year truce based on the same condition of Israeli withdrawal from occupied territories.
• 1996: In March, after Israel assassinated Hamas military leader Yahya Ayyash in January, the movement offered a ceasefire.
• 1997: September: Days before Israel attempted to assassinate Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal in the Jordanian capital, Amman, the movement offered Israel a 10-year truce. October: After his release from Israeli prison, Hamas founder Yasin renewed the call for a ceasefire. November: Hamas again proposed a truce. The Qassam Brigades said attacks against Israeli civilians would stop if Israel stopped targeting Palestinian civilians.
• 1999: Yasin made another ceasefire offer provided Israel withdrew from the 1967 territories. In a letter to European diplomats, Hamas offered to cease all hostilities in exchange for Israeli withdrawal, evacuation of settlements, and release of Palestinian prisoners.
• 2003: In December, Yasin offered a ceasefire on the condition that Israel withdraw from the Palestinian territories. He was killed four months later in an Israeli attack.
• 2004: Yasin’s successor and Hamas co-founder Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi again proposed a 10-year truce. Israel killed him one month after Yasin.
• 2006: Hamas again offered a 10-year truce that would be “automatically renewed if [Israel] commits to restoring the full and legitimate rights of the Palestinian people to them within a final solution that matches what is accepted by the PLO”.
• 2007: Senior Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh repeated the group’s call for a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.
• 2008: Hamas leader Meshaal again offered a 10-year truce, which he repeated a year later.
• 2014: Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad offered a 10-year truce in exchange for the lifting of the Israeli blockade and release of Palestinian prisoners.
• 2015: Hamas proposed a long-term ceasefire in exchange for the lifting of the blockade.
• 2017: Hamas presented its revised charter announcing that it accepted a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders.

Then you have the (I believe) annual UN vote called the "Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine" which is based off the 1967 border partition, and Israel & the US veto it every time.

 

[Cannavore]

Bullshit; you forget the land where your fat ass sits? Thousands - millions killed so you can get your pizza delivered.

"A liberal is someone who is against every war except the current one, and who supports every civil rights struggle except the current one."

 

[Cannavore]

Perfect response and memory old boy. None of my ancestors were responsible for stealing the house/apartment/farm I live in/on - so I don't need to give it back ~ Cannavore

my ancestors came here post-slavery and colonization, old boy.

 

[Cannavore]

You should probably be able to see that there's similarities you may be overlooking.

If Israel is not then neither is ours.

im not overlooking anything. again, one of these things already happened, the other has been ongoing since 1948. there are people who literally survived the first nakba of '48 only to experience it again now at the end of their lives.

settler colonialism of all forms is terrorism and probably an act of war in my mind.

 

[Cannavore]

using the same tactics that Hamas is using? you seem to have passed right over that bit...

hamas tactics are last resort tactics because israel does not want to compromise with them. how is this so hard to understand?

if native americans were rounded up and put into a concentration camp like the gazans were, then yes i believe they have the right to resist by any means.

 

[Roms]

 

[Roms]

 

[Microbeman]

"A liberal is someone who is against every war except the current one, and who supports every civil rights struggle except the current one."

Does not describe me. Especially concerning Palestine. I've already posted my stance that I think things should return to 1947 not 67. Not a great straw man.

 

[Microbeman]

my ancestors came here post-slavery and colonization, old boy.

So you just don't get it do you? - Not our fault or responsibility; we moved to Israel long after the annexing and wars.

 

[Microbeman]

im not overlooking anything. again, one of these things already happened, the other has been ongoing since 1948. there are people who literally survived the first nakba of '48 only to experience it again now at the end of their lives.

settler colonialism of all forms is terrorism and probably an act of war in my mind.

The 'other thing' has been also ongoing for several hundred years but as lately as the 70s into the 80s first nation children have been stolen from families by the state and forced to attend/reside at schools which cut their hair and wiped their language and culture from their beings by force and brainwashing. This in part was to try to prevent the ongoing battle to take back their lands which were stolen.

 

[Cannavore]

So you just don't get it do you? - Not our fault or responsibility; we moved to Israel long after the annexing and wars.

?They're "annexing" Gaza right this second lmao and continue to build new settlements on the regular?

 

[Microbeman]

?They're "annexing" Gaza right this second lmao and continue to build new settlements on the regular?

Really? I did not know...I was demonstrating the weakness of your statement about your ancestors moving to North America post slavery and the wars on Indians. Not that they really did, as those wars continue...some through armed occupation...some through protest, usually ended by brute force...some through guerilla sabotage...some through the courts...even some through politics.