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War

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
I also somewhat skeptically questioned fossil fuels as a carrot in the creation of Israel. But I also wasn't there, either.

Are governments and bureaucrats capable of such sleight of hand? Sure. Does that prove it was a part of the goal? Not yet for me.

Not nearly as much suspicion as the Bible at that early point, from where I am sitting.
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
Numerous interviews indicate Hamas did not act the same way. Including statements from hostages, especially female hostages, who reported having been treated with respect while captive.

They didn't kill innocent people or execute hostages.

I hear that they celebrated at grand feasts.

They definitely don't want to harm one hair on a head.
 

dramamine

Well-known member
I also somewhat skeptically questioned fossil fuels as a carrot in the creation of Israel. But I also wasn't there, either.

Are governments and bureaucrats capable of such sleight of hand? Sure. Does that prove it was a part of the goal? Not yet for me.
I hear you. I think there were probably multiple reasons for Israel's creation (manifest destiny for Jews, empire building for the US) and that each party involved had their own intentions. Oil, though, is certainly the driver of all modern civilization and control of it is the seat of power. So keeping oil priced in $ is job one for the US.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
I hear you. I think there were probably multiple reasons for Israel's creation (manifest destiny for Jews, empire building for the US) and that each party involved had their own intentions. Oil, though, is certainly the driver of all modern civilization and control of it is the seat of power. So keeping oil priced in $ is job one for the US.
Looking at what happened after Hussein kicked BP out of the Ramallah Oil Fields and his reasons for doing so, and then BP walking back in after the US pulled down Saddam's statues, working as contractors no less, for a net profit of about $1.50/barrel gives some very strong indications of what it is you're referring to.

I'm just not yet convinced that it was a driver in 1947 and 1948. Though, as stated, I don't know that.

(*And for years up here, I've referred to BP as 'The Mafia of the Oil Patch")
 
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mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
The US has a long standing policy of joking about prison rape.

We have no moral high ground.

We are all complicit in treating people with disregard and contempt.

Attica was just humans being terrible humans because they were treated terribly.

Until our entire race can call each other "human" and find respect and responsibility towards ourselves we are not going to get any further.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
The US has a long standing policy of joking about prison rape.

We have no moral high ground.

We are all complicit in treating people with disregard and contempt.

Attica was just humans being terrible humans because they were treated terribly.

Until our entire race can call each other "human" and find respect and responsibility towards ourselves we are not going to get any further.
I was specifically referring to the inmates and guards alike being shot down in the yard when the move to take the prison back went full-on.

By the way, there are more than a few analogies involving Hammas' behavior as being the outcome of prison conditions.
 
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moose eater

Well-known member
The US has a long standing policy of joking about prison rape.

We have no moral high ground.

We are all complicit in treating people with disregard and contempt.

Attica was just humans being terrible humans because they were treated terribly.

Until our entire race can call each other "human" and find respect and responsibility towards ourselves we are not going to get any further.
Personally, I see our species as less and less deserving of respect.
 
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