War

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Always been the way - and probably will always be the way - 'One man's terrorist - is another man's freedom fighter' - and both sides of the polarized media jumps on either end - to try and keep us all polarized - at each others throats - typically - what's right is somebody else's wrong - and what's wrong is so very-very wrong - because no one can argue sensibly - that it's right to murder non-combatants - women - children and the elderly - displacing millions of people - throwing them into untold Bedlam - hardship and terror - isn't that some sort of genocide?

 

[Lipperstolz]

They are be warned.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

I try to be balanced in my approach to thinking about these things. I give my full support to civilians in a hard place with nowhere to go, and children growing up in conflict. I support the rights of Palestinians and believe they should have the ability to be an autonomous state not controlled, resources or otherwise, by Israel.

I wont go so far as to believe I really understand the inner workings of Gaza or the current or historical sentiment of Arabs towards Jews. I guess I am saying I would assume a real level of hatred could exist, both in present day and in the past, from the Arab world towards the Western world and towards the mostly European Jews that occupied Israel. And I am talking about regular people, not militarized ones.

I also acknowledge the courageous and kind people advocating for peace on both sides.

Does Israel have a legitimate claim to have a state in the area, or is this more of a global displacement from the UN and a personal manifest destiny for them?

I feel somewhat called to be more vocal about this conflict, but aside from online conversations and talking with family and friends about it I have been mostly silent. Could I broach these issues in my professional life? I certainly do not like the US financial support to Israel without any provisions attached to it. That alone aligns the US citizen with the Israeli offensive which I am not. That much I should at least be outspoken about.

Israel should only be able to attack Hamas when they have properly addressed the need to protect Gazans as much as possible. And with the condition that when Hamas is destroyed that they will return Gaza and the West Bank to Palestinians and agree to unilateral and international conditions upon their interaction with the newly created state of Palestine, or else. No more blind support for Israel, they should be allowed to exist but not allowed to expand.

 

[Cannavore]

 

[GenghisKush]

no one can argue sensibly - that it's right to murder non-combatants - women - children and the elderly - displacing millions of people - throwing them into untold Bedlam - hardship and terror - isn't that some sort of genocide?

Accusations of genocide are, I think, the most serious accusations that anyone can make. I won't level such an accusation without overwhelming and indisputable evidence.

I have serious reservations about Israel's government and especially the push rightward under Netanyahu. I still think only non-religious non-ethnostate democracies are democracies. I think I understand why Israel exists, and I want it to continue to exist AND I want the Palestinian people to enjoy peace and self-determination and to be able to make their own choices for their own reasons. I want a two-state solution, I suppose.

View attachment 18914870

that's not what's happening here. I don't see anyone here (except for maybe rob) accusing critics of israel of doing an antisemitism.

 

[Cannavore]

it's happening throughout the country to the point where they're trying to enact legislation to make it illegal to be against israel lol

also why would you want a fascist settler colonialist pro genocide state to exist? israel will never agree to a two state solution. the settlements are illegal. the government is fascist. any country who's existence depends on the continued occupation and genocide of the local population should be torn apart.

 

[GenghisKush]

it's happening throughout the country to the point where they're trying to enact legislation to make it illegal to be against israel lol

I'm almost afraid to ask, but who is "they"?

also why would you want a fascist settler colonialist pro genocide state to exist? israel will never agree to a two state solution. the settlements are illegal. the government is fascist. any country who's existence depends on the continued occupation and genocide of the local population should be torn apart.

I don't want a fascist settler colonial pro genocide state to exist. I want a democratic and free homeland for Jews to exist. Equally, and for exactly the same reasons, I want a democratic and free homeland for Palestinian people to exist. I agree that the Netanyahu government has become fascist. But I do not agree that Israel itself or Zionism itself is fundamentally fascist. I want a political solution, not a military solution. I want peace.

 

[Cannavore]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but who is "they"?

lawmakers?

I don't want a fascist settler colonial pro genocide state to exist. I want a democratic and free homeland for Jews to exist.

you can't be democratic and free and also be an apartheid state.

Equally, and for exactly the same reasons, I want a democratic and free homeland for Palestinian people to exist.

they had a free homeland

I agree that the Netanyahu government has become fascist. But I do not agree that Israel itself or Zionism itself is fundamentally fascist.

but they are. it's a racist far right apartheid ethno-nationalist society. even the so called liberals are racist blood thirsty freaks.

I want a political solution, not a military solution. I want peace.

israel doesn't.

 

[GenghisKush]

lawmakers?

touche

you can't be democratic and free and also be an apartheid state.

agreed.

they had a free homeland

Palestine was occupied by the British and Ottoman Empires, respectively, before 1948.

but they [Israel/Zionists] are [fascist]. it's a racist far right apartheid ethno-nationalist society. even the so called liberals are racist blood thirsty freaks.

Are you willing to accept that reasonable people can disagree about this? Because I disagree.

israel doesn't [want peace].

I can speak only for myself: I want peace. I believe these problems can only be solved by political means. I think that escalation will bring only more escalation.

 

[Hiddenjems]

Here’s the initial problem. After ww2 “the world” decided the Jews should have their own little country. Instead of donating part of rural America or any other country giving them anything, “the world” decide to move out Arabs and give their land to the Jews.

 

[RobFromTX]

Donating part of rural america?

That would have rolled over like a turd in a punch bowl

 

[RobFromTX]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/04/europe/ukrainians-face-prolonged-war-with-russia-in-stalemate-intl/index.html

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Special military operation, you mean?

 

[GenghisKush]

I took a moment to consider this meme.

The numbers and categories presented simply don't support the caption statement, that 83.4% of Israeli Jews don't think that "Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian population in Gaza." "Not so much" and "Not at all" have different meanings.

Meanwhile.
The following statements are supported by the tabular data presented:

55.3% of Israelis say that the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza should be taken into consideration when planning the next phases of fighting there.

1.2% of Arab Israeli citizens say that the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza should not be taken into consideration when planning the next phases of fighting there.

48.8% of Jewish Israeli citizens say that the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza should be taken into consideration when planning the next phases of fighting there.

etc.

 

[Hiddenjems]

Donating part of rural america?

That would have rolled over like a turd in a punch bowl

Exactly. It’s very easy to give away other peoples property though. Usually those other folks aren’t very happy either.

 

[moose eater]

Kathy Hochul’s Israel Trip Bankrolled by Group Funding Illegal Settlements

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul’s Israel trip was bankrolled by UJA-Federation of New York, which funds groups that support illegal settlements.

theintercept.com

 

[PetePrice]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but who is "they"?

I don't want a fascist settler colonial pro genocide state to exist. I want a democratic and free homeland for Jews to exist. Equally, and for exactly the same reasons, I want a democratic and free homeland for Palestinian people to exist. I agree that the Netanyahu government has become fascist. But I do not agree that Israel itself or Zionism itself is fundamentally fascist. I want a political solution, not a military solution. I want peace.

It doesn't matter what you want. There's no denying the leaders of Israel are fascist nor can it be denied that parts of Zionism are fascist, I really don't know how this can be disputed especially when they have openly told it and then proceeded with actions to support it.

This is a far right fascist government with links to extremism that openly wants Palestine gone.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

It’s very easy to give away other peoples property

I used to wonder where you got your information.

Now I don't want to anymore.

 

[GenghisKush]

It doesn't matter what you want.
...

Then why would you bother to type a response to me?
I sense projection / accusation in a mirror from you.
Ignored.

 

[Hiddenjems]

I used to wonder where you got your information.

Now I don't want to anymore.

So the people living there at the time willingly donated their land to the Jews? Or was it the west giving the Jews the land on their behalf?