RobFromTX
Well-known member
Nato was expanding towards their border long before Putin came to power. Russia was behaving just fine until he came around
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War
- Thread starter Creeperpark
- Start date
Nato was expanding towards their border long before Putin came to power. Russia was behaving just fine until he came around
Blue Rhino
Well-known member
Bullshit. He was promised nothing in that regard. In fact Gorbachev himself denied he was promised anything. Why do you feel the need to tell fundamental falsehoods?
To be free, independent countries.
Nope. That's just your imagination.
Because many former Soviet Bloc countries want abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with Russia.
NATO members weren't forced to join NATO. They joined entirely of their own volition. No force was used, no bombs were dropped, no civilians were intentionally targeted in a pathetic attempt to force acceptance.
If you're trying to suggest some kind of immoral equivalency between NATO and Bedpan, try again.
Blue Rhino
Well-known member
Except that's a lie. Gorbachev was promised nothing.
Q Is this true? A: Many sources say no
Q: Did they need a function beside being freed?
Has NATO ever attacked offensively?
Beat me to it.
Blue Rhino
Well-known member
No worries there. The Trudeau govt is too busy sucking Chinese dick right now.I wonder how Sloppy Joe and his cronies would react if Canada formed an alliance with Russia on our borders
I think a more likely scenario would be the US occupying Canada to use it as a buffer against Russian aggression.
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Canada will be the last country left with any natural resources. i guess i could see that happening
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Uuuuuugggghhhh....
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
nsarchive.gwu.edu
greyfader
Well-known member
perhaps they had a crystal ball! it doesn't take a genius to recognize the true nature of Russia. from the moment the soviet union broke up, there were active and vociferous elements in Russian society who were adamantly opposed to the break-up and were making noises about reversing it. like vladolf putler.
he was active in the early days after the breakup as well as many others and their sentiments were well known.
Russia was moving toward confrontation with the West almost as soon as the breakup occurred.
here is a book review on this subject;
How Russia Went from Ally to Adversary
The Cold War ended. The United States declared victory. Then things took a turn.
to be sure, both sides were responsible for this, the growth of NATO.
if you like, we can go into the individual histories of the ex-soviet states to see where they changed their minds about NATO and why. pick a country.
Blue Rhino
Well-known member
While Gorbachev himself stated that he was promised nothing in that regard. Ugh yourself.Uuuuuugggghhhh....
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
Blue Rhino
Well-known member
Oh cool, and now against ALL international conventions, Russia is using the Zap nuclear power plant as a training ground. These are not the actions of a sane, rational govt and military. These are NOT the actions of liberators.
On top of that, the bulk of the Russian conscripts are non-ethnic Russians. The meat assaults are Putin's way of doing a little ethnic cleansing of Russia while using "Ukro-nazis" as his rationale for invading Ukraine in the first place. Bedpan has been conscripting migrants, and non-ethnic Russians from the far east at a much greater rate than within the more heavily populated White Russia. One could reasonably state that Putin is a "Russo-nazi."
On top of that, the bulk of the Russian conscripts are non-ethnic Russians. The meat assaults are Putin's way of doing a little ethnic cleansing of Russia while using "Ukro-nazis" as his rationale for invading Ukraine in the first place. Bedpan has been conscripting migrants, and non-ethnic Russians from the far east at a much greater rate than within the more heavily populated White Russia. One could reasonably state that Putin is a "Russo-nazi."
Interesting read. Of course I was consuming news back then. There were so many meetings, including Clinton and Yeltsin.Uuuuuugggghhhh....
NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents
‘There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’ - Harvard Law School
Robert Zoellick, the U.S. diplomat who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War, says Vladimir Putin’s claims about Ukraine are part of a disinformation campaign.
hls.harvard.edu
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Interesting read. Of course I was consuming news back then. There were so many meetings, including Clinton and Yeltsin.
‘There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’ - Harvard Law School
Robert Zoellick, the U.S. diplomat who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War, says Vladimir Putin’s claims about Ukraine are part of a disinformation campaign.
And Yeltsin was a good leader. A boozehound but much less corrupt than todays climate. Harvard Law School isnt known for their impartiality
The question is, is/was Zoellick?
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Being a lawyer I doubt it
What do you call 100 lawyers chained together at the bottom of the ocean?
a good start.
RobFromTX
Well-known member
We should all strive to be as righteous as you mustard. Or atleast as self righteous
Whos side are you on this war?!! blah blah blah fiddily widdily widdliy turn tape over
I actually have stated that I support the Ukraine.
I have at least one more ball than you do.
I have at least one more ball than you do.
