War

[armedoldhippy]

hard times means making hard decisions. the situation isn't perfect, but strongmanning russia into submission by using Ukraine as a proxy for the west & nato isn't going to work either.

the alternative is a global nuclear conflict is it not? i have not heard any other solution to this situation other than keep pumping Ukraine with guns and money and potentially ushering them into NATO.


weird that you guys don't say anything about Saudi Arabia or Israel using USA dollars and weapons to commit genocide in Yemen and apartheid in Palestine lol.

giving Ukraine to Russia is not our call. i'm against ANY country invading another. i don't think Saudi Arabia is going at the same scale as Russia, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict won't be solved in our lifetimes. it does not help the Palestinians cause to launch rockets from Syria & Lebanon, nor to march while screaming "DEATH TO ISRAEL!" they are there, and they aren't going to leave. nor will they allow themselves to be slaughtered as happened in Europe by Hitler & his band of merry men. i'm not saying that they are innocent, far from it. their bulldozing of Palestinian homes etc to make room for for Jewish settlements is a huge part of the problem. the Jewish people and the Palestinians are, by DNA testing, far more closely related to each other than to anyone else on the planet. aint no fight as nasty as a family feud...

 

[Cannavore]

Ukraine supporters on the Azov Battalion in NYC:

"the thing that they're Nazi's is part of Russian propaganda .. they're patriots"




Chants of support for the controversial Azov Battalion break out at a pro Ukraine rally in lower Manhattan Attendees chant “Azov”



big yikes lmao

 

[Pwyllpomone]

name another country in Europe that has invaded/"annexed" any other country since WW2 BESIDES Russia. in case you have been hiding under your rock recently, Finland & another country or two are considering joining NATO now that Putrid has taken off his mask of civility. you can take the man out of the KGB, but apparently, it is impossible to take the KGB out of the man. how ignorant... Finland has exactly not squat that Russia thinks they need, in contrast to Ukraine.

1955, Cypriot greeks take arms and declare independence of Cyprus Island. It was uk territory annexed by what you would call "terrorist separatists" just like Donbass fighters i guess.
1974, Turkey invades Cyprus and annex part of its territory.
1991-2001, Ex-Yougoslavia. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo. Too complex to explain, just look it up. States were invading each others. Genocidal actions.

And the list is not exhaustive.

"taken off his mask of civility" = it's part of your false narrative but not reality. You're ignoring basically 20 years of diplomatic history. Just search, read, listen and you'll see by yourself.
The red line has been clearly defined and repeated numerous times, we messed with Russians and now we're acting as if nothing happened. It's ridiculous in my opinion, and dishonest.
I don't support war in any way. But assuming propaganda-fueled assumptions like Putin = Hitler, is just absolutely counter productive and basically false.

 

[armedoldhippy]

1955, Cypriot greeks take arms and declare independence of Cyprus Island. It was uk territory annexed by what you would call "terrorist separatists" just like Donbass fighters i guess.
1974, Turkey invades Cyprus and annex part of its territory.
1991-2001, Ex-Yougoslavia. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo. Too complex to explain, just look it up. States were invading each others. Genocidal actions.

And the list is not exhaustive.

"taken off his mask of civility" = it's part of your false narrative but not reality. You're ignoring basically 20 years of diplomatic history. Just search, read, listen and you'll see by yourself.
The red cross has been clearly defined and repeated numerous times, we messed with Russians and now we're acting as if nothing happened. It's ridiculous in my opinion, and dishonest.
I don't support war in any way. But assuming propaganda-fueled assumptions like Putin = Hitler, is just absolutely counter productive and basically false.

Yugoslavia was a clusterfuck of a civil war for practical purposes, not an invasion of a peaceful country by a neighbor. Cyprus should have been independent already, the time for "colonies" and "possessions" is over, and the US has a couple of places that need release as well. so, you're down to Turkey vs Cyprus. have not read into it. got any that are anywhere near as large-scale as Russia going into Ukraine...twice? i have read, searched etc. much of what i have read about Russia is diametrically opposite of what you project. i don't think Putrid = Hitler. he is far more dangerous, but only because he has nuclear weapons.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Americans talking about Europe is always funny

 

[h.h.]

strawman

You want to give him presents .

 

[h.h.]

1955, Cypriot greeks take arms and declare independence of Cyprus Island. It was uk territory annexed by what you would call "terrorist separatists" just like Donbass fighters i guess.
1974, Turkey invades Cyprus and annex part of its territory.
1991-2001, Ex-Yougoslavia. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo. Too complex to explain, just look it up. States were invading each others. Genocidal actions.

And the list is not exhaustive.

"taken off his mask of civility" = it's part of your false narrative but not reality. You're ignoring basically 20 years of diplomatic history. Just search, read, listen and you'll see by yourself.
The red line has been clearly defined and repeated numerous times, we messed with Russians and now we're acting as if nothing happened. It's ridiculous in my opinion, and dishonest.
I don't support war in any way. But assuming propaganda-fueled assumptions like Putin = Hitler, is just absolutely counter productive and basically false.

2022. Putin attacks. Fuck him .

 

[h.h.]

hard times means making hard decisions. the situation isn't perfect, but strongmanning russia into submission by using Ukraine as a proxy for the west & nato doesn't seem like it's going to work either.

the alternative is a global nuclear conflict is it not? i have not heard any other solution to this situation other than keep pumping Ukraine with guns and money and potentially ushering them into NATO.


weird that you guys don't say anything about Saudi Arabia or Israel using USA dollars and weapons to commit genocide in Yemen and apartheid in Palestine lol.

That excuses it then. Putin is a good guy. He likes you.

 

[h.h.]

Not every comment is in comparison to what's going on in Ukraine, my point is that thru most of last year when people were still struggling to recover from the Pandemic and Biden was trying to pass his plan to strengthen Social Safety nets in what was being called the "Human Infrastructure" of his Build Back Better plan, all the Republicans and two now notorious Democrats kept negotiating the bill down quibbling over a billion here or a billion there. Saying that the Government couldn't afford all that spending after the bills passed at the start of the Pandemic. Now however I've not heard one peep out of any congressman or Senator about how we can't afford all this spending we've done and pledged to continue to do as long as the war in Ukraine goes on. I guess the fact that most politicians on Capital Hill are heavily invested in Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and other prominent defense contractors helps to make all this spending okay? Like I said before though, I don't regret that we're helping Ukraine, they do need this help if they want to have a chance at holding off Russia. I just find the inconsistency on politicians fiscal concerns...interesting.

Sometimes you just do what you feel like needs to be done. You take the hit. Folks are getting slaughtered. You give up a little. We are struggling. We’re not dying. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

 

[Roms]

Russia brave peacemaker light VS NATO's darkness cowardly lol

Hopefully peacemakers aliens are stronger than fearful reptilians and this will prevent nuclear bomb but count on mother Nature to help humanity to eradicate evil parasites on earth again.

 

[h.h.]

Ukraine supporters on the Azov Battalion in NYC:

"the thing that they're Nazi's is part of Russian propaganda .. they're patriots"




Chants of support for the controversial Azov Battalion break out at a pro Ukraine rally in lower Manhattan Attendees chant “Azov”



big yikes lmao

So they’re all nazis and deserve to be slaughtered? You make a good mouthpiece.

 

[Cannavore]

So they’re all nazis and deserve to be slaughtered? You make a good mouthpiece.

all you do is strawman lmao

 

[h.h.]

all you do is strawman lmao

I see. So all Ukrainians are baby rapers in your lame opinion. I could care less about straw men. You’re here repeating bullshit because you learned it from a meme.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Big contrast

 

[HempKat]

Sometimes you just do what you feel like needs to be done. You take the hit. Folks are getting slaughtered. You give up a little. We are struggling. We’re not dying. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

Again you're missing the point, you keep trying to compare American Citizens needs to the needs of Ukrainians and there is no comparison because American Citizens are just the victims of poor representation in Congress while Ukrainians are the victims of war. I'm not saying American Citizens need the money more then the Ukrainians need help. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy and inconsistency of our representatives. If the government was too poor to improve the lives of it's citizens as we were struggling to emerge from a pandemic less then a year ago then we're still too poor to help Ukraine with similar amounts of money. What was true last fall about our country's financial situation is still true today, nothing has changed. The only real difference between now and then is that the spending proposed then didn't enrich the politicians or the entities that give them money. The spending that is happening now on the other hand does financially benefit quite a number of politicians and entities that give them money. Mind you I'm not saying we should stop helping Ukraine, I'm saying if there was any truth to the objections on spending proposed last fall then those who objected back then should be objecting just as loudly now.

 

[HempKat]

Yes no problem. My point was not to be agressive but maybe make you realize you should check a bit more infos before assuming things. Cheers

Maybe you should as well? I see no offering of evidence to counter the claims Swamp Thang was making. It's widely accepted public knowledge that Putin is one of the richest men in the world but it's hard to prove because he keeps it spread out and some of it can be traced back to him while other amounts he has his Oligarchs and his family members keep hidden in their names. Perhaps you've heard the reports lately questioning why we didn't go after Putin's Girlfriend with sanctions? The reported reason being that the Biden administration felt going after her would push Putin too far and coincidentally it is believed she has under her name the lion share of his wealth.

U.S. Holds Sanctions on Rumored Putin ‘Mistress’ Kabaeva – WSJ - The Moscow Times

The United States halted planned sanctions against President Vladimir Putin’s rumored “mistress,” former Olympic gymnast Alina Kabaeva, at the last minute, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.

www.themoscowtimes.com

 

[HempKat]

Why do you need to extrapolate 70 years ago ? The emperor of my ancesters invaded the whole Europe two centuries ago, should Europe fear of a France's invasion ?
Putin did not invade Finland and never showed any signs he wanted to do so, that's the fact that matters here and not what happened 70 or 200 years ago.
And still, i don't understand how the fact that Russia invaded Finland dozen decades ago would mean Putin is willing to do the same. You're just doing a slippery slope fallacy in order to strenghten your false narrative.

&0 years ago might seem like a long enough time for you to dismiss but we're not talking about your reaction to Russia invading Ukraine but rather Finland's reaction. I would wager, especially giving up their long standing position of neutrality in favor of joining NATO, that they still have some hard feelings about when they were invaded. When the USSR was still intact Putin was head of the KGB so it's not likely he's totally removed from the entity that once invaded Finland. Also it's no secret that Putin has claimed a long standing goal of returning Russia to the former glory of the USSR and part of that plan involved Russia, under Putin's commend recapturing all the former Territories of the USSR that broke away when it fell and became independent nation's many of which immediately joined NATO.

Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of ‘Soviet’ Russia

The world was stunned when Russia invaded Crimea, but should it have been, asks author and journalist Oliver Bullough.

www.bbc.com

"Russia has been a great power for centuries, and remains so. It has always had and still has legitimate zones of interest ... We should not drop our guard in this respect, neither should we allow our opinion to be ignored," he said.

His domestic policy was to restore stability, to end what he called the "revolutions", that had brought Russia low. His foreign policy was to regain Russia's place in world affairs.
Those two core aims have driven everything he has done since. If only people had been listening, none of his actions would have come as a surprise to them.
Since then, he has seized every opportunity history has offered him, from the attacks of 11 September 2001 to the Ukrainian Revolution of 2013, in his bid to secure his aims. He has been tactically astute and ruthlessly opportunistic. At home and abroad, he wants Russia to regain the prestige it held when he was growing up.

It's also worth noting that the primary reason for the creation of NATO was to serve as a check against the imperialistic tendencies of the USSR at the time. Now you have Russia here in Modern times trying to invade and take control of Ukraine (which fits his plan to restore the glory and might of the USSR to Russia and in that light it's no wonder upon seeing this not just Finland who was previously invaded by the USSR but also Switzerland wants to join NATO.

History has relevance to the events happening now even if you find it inconvenient for the argument you're trying to make. Like the old say goes, those who forget the lessons of History are condemned to repeat it.

 

[HempKat]

hard times means making hard decisions. the situation isn't perfect, but strongmanning russia into submission by using Ukraine as a proxy for the west & nato doesn't seem like it's going to work either.

the alternative is a global nuclear conflict is it not? i have not heard any other solution to this situation other than keep pumping Ukraine with guns and money and potentially ushering them into NATO.


weird that you guys don't say anything about Saudi Arabia or Israel using USA dollars and weapons to commit genocide in Yemen and apartheid in Palestine lol.

Why do you think relations between the current administration and MBS have cooled down so much? Did you think it was all about the reporter that he had sliced and diced?

As for the current situation, yeah what we are doing now in aiding Ukraine is not ideal and it could potentially trigger a nuclear war but as you said, hard times, hard decisions. If you look back to the early days of the invasion Biden was reluctant to commit to any military aide or sanctions. He was pretty content to build up forces in bordering NATO countries in case Putin tried to carry things further then Ukraine. However what would you have the US or the West do, just look the other way while Russia indiscriminately bombed the crap out of civilians and cities far removed from military installations? Had Putin actually observed the rules of war or stuck to his stated goals of helping to protect and free the separatists perhaps the west would have kept looking the other way NATO has been on Russia's borders long before Ukraine began looking into joining NATO so the threat of NATO is just an excuse. The only way NATO is a threat to Russia is that it stands in Putin's and Russia's way when it comes to invading it's sovereign neighbors. If just the presence of NATO on Russia's borders is justifiable cause for war then why didn't Putin go after Estonia and Latvia in 2004 when they joined NATO? I can't prove this, just as none of us can prove our positions because we're all just Stoners on a Stoner website but I say Russia went after Ukraine because Putin knew if he actually let them join NATO then his grand dream of restoring Russia to the former glory of the USSR would be over. Russia struggled and did miserably in Afghanistan, they struggled and did miserably in Chechnya they didn't perform off that well in Syria either and now they're being held at a standstill by Ukraine. So what chance does Russia have against the combined might of NATO especially when that includes the US that is considered the most powerful military force on the planet? They have zero chance which is why they haven't gone after Estonia or Latvia and why they're pre-emptively attacking Ukraine. Which incidentally is a violation of the Budapest Memorandum which Russia signed when Ukraine gave Russia the nukes it inherited when they broke away from the USSR. A memorandum where Russia pledges in exchange to not invade Ukraine, ever and then they broke in 2014 when they took Crimea thereby giving Ukraine every right to seek out joining NATO which they pledged to not do as their part of the Budapest Memorandum. Ultimately all the blame for everything happening now falls at the feet of Putin due to his inability to honor his agreements.

 

[HempKat]

has it been 8 years since Russia "annexed" the Crimean Peninsula? hmmm...the apologists are coming out of the woodwork again, just in time for another "declaration of victory" LOL!

Although at the rate things are going it's looking more like that victory will be Transnistria over in Moldova. Kind of weird they just had an attack over there on a pro Russian radio station that is eerily similar to the German false flag attack on a pro German Radio station that kicked off the invasion by Germany into Poland that kicked off WWII.

 

[HempKat]

all you do is strawman lmao

Same could be said of you on your point about Azov Battalion. Yes the Originators of Azov Battalion back in 2014 when they helped fend off Russia's first invasion did have a lot of members that could be called neo Nazi's. As a result of their effort back then and in the years since against the separatists they have become seen by most of Ukraine as just fierce defenders of Ukraine and many young men who are not neo Nazi's have joined them, seeing themselves as Patriots rather then Nazi's. During that same period many of those Azov members that gave rise to equating Azov with Nazi's have left the Battalion to try and form a hard right nationalist party that got so few votes they don't hold any seats in the current government. So to try to paint all of Azov as nothing more then Nazi's is pretty intellectually dishonest and essentially now a strawman argument.