Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[Jhhnn]

Sure, but does anyone think there's a basis for it even with outdoor grown? I mean, it's an interesting question, but maybe far-fetched - and seems potentially at odds with the concentrates market you're talking about. Here I guess the wine analogy would point to brandy, grappa, etc. Which do sometimes feature varietals, but as far as I know the exact provenance of the grapes that go into a grappa are not such a big deal, as with the wine where you're closer to the vineyard.

Concentrates seem like kind of a wild card in the game if the win is to develop a sophisticated appreciation of cannabis. It's complicated enough with flower buds, which have a sort of inherent authenticity as long as we assume (as I do) that packagers aren't sprinkling them with anything.

A legal national market will expand in all kinds of directions & people will ultimately decide what endures by what they buy.

I think Sam's observations about dry sift are valid. It's been a long time, but various hashes are quite distinct from each other depending on their origin. I doubt we'll see much that's hand rubbed, too much labor, but dry sift & choice tops could easily end up like brandy & wine. There are all kinds of brandy, grappa being only one of them.

One of the interesting things about dry sift is that it can be blended to create very consistent products year to year much the same as table wine & tobacco.

Oh, God! It'll be like Marlboros!

Some of it probably will be, I'm sure. And why not? If that's what consumers want, then the market will provide it.

 

[Donn]

One of the interesting things about dry sift is that it can be blended to create very consistent products year to year much the same as table wine & tobacco.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's an interesting potential, but we need to sharpen our picture of what we value in cannabis - what we want, why we want it etc. (By "we" I mean, consumer public, including me.) That isn't easy, because it's hard to talk or even think about mental states. Blending would not only further muddy the water, it would be aimed at a half assed market target that's kind of at the level of convenience store fortified wines, not grappa. That's the scenario where Phillip Morris is going to walk off with the whole game.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's an interesting potential, but we need to sharpen our picture of what we value in cannabis - what we want, why we want it etc. (By "we" I mean, consumer public, including me.) That isn't easy, because it's hard to talk or even think about mental states. Blending would not only further muddy the water, it would be aimed at a half assed market target that's kind of at the level of convenience store fortified wines, not grappa. That's the scenario where Phillip Morris is going to walk off with the whole game.

It can also lead to products like this, & everything in between-

https://www.google.com/search?q=hen...essy+paradis&tbm=shop&spd=8463930568905687175

 

[Donn]

Sure, after several centuries. I'm talking about 5 years, so shaving off a century or two really matters.

 

[Space Toker]

I like Rosin it can be great. A great use of med quality dry sift or water hash, make Rosin.
My hash is not around because I do not sell Cannabis or resin.
Thousands have tried it, over the last 20 years, and other folks can make some pretty good dry sift nowadays.
But yes it will be a while till you see my hash available, maybe a year or two maybe longer. And it will be made by others from their plants using my method if all goes as planned.
-SamS

Ironic in the extreme, I avoided this thread out of principle for the longest time because of the name... but Mr. Rosin, or was it Mr. Rozzen, was an extreme prick math teacher in a background little town full of arrogant factory worker's sons who pushed their weight around and well, this town could easily be the subject of the next Stephen King novel for being a black hole litterally and figuratively, full of assholes and that is not an excuse but the truth! Anyway, Rosin took great pleasure in busting people in the bathroom for smoking a joint and even think he was responsible for a couple of those police raids where they snffed all the lockers with dogs. I was a "straight" pathetic guy at the time but hey at least some of us live and learn! But yes, I totally agree, legalization must and should happen but must be for the little guy first, inspiring cottage industries over megacorporations, but it must happen nontheless and think it will in the next year or 2. For the oppoents we are slipping down a slippery slope that can only mean one thing... we are all free!

 

[Jhhnn]

Sure, after several centuries. I'm talking about 5 years, so shaving off a century or two really matters.

My point is that as the market expands consumers will really determine where it will go.

I think it will turn out better than the naysayers think it will, at least for the vast majority of users.

Long a badge of the counter culture, legalization lets cannabis become something much larger, mainstream, part of the system. It lets us take our rightful place among the other sinners- drinkers, gamblers & smokers, all of whom are afforded at least some accommodation.

Quite where that will go, I really can't say for sure, nobody can, but we need to embrace it because it changes everything at the level of personal use. Other than avoiding driving when high or more than just a little bit high, there's no paranoia, because we don't do anything that's illegal. Here in Denver, I could sit on my very public front porch, toke up my homegrown, and there's nobody to say otherwise. Pocket electronic vaporizers are ubiquitous among the younger crowd frequenting the entertainment venues on nearby S Broadway. They look just like the ones used for tobacco products. If the market & the milieu has much direction atm, I think that's it- discrete toking when out & about.

 

[Donn]

Long a badge of the counter culture, legalization lets cannabis become something much larger, mainstream, part of the system. It lets us take our rightful place among the other sinners- drinkers, gamblers & smokers, all of whom are afforded at least some accommodation.

OK, but ... I hope at least a few of us care how that turns out. It has the potential to be so much more than just another drinker/gambler/smoker thing. Legalization opens a door to what? I have more faith in the state jurisdictions to independently explore that transition, than big pharma etc. under US legal.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I have more faith in the state jurisdictions to independently explore that transition, than big pharma etc. under US legal.

me too, but if federally legal, folks stop losing jobs, homes, families, and do not go to jail REGARDLESS of who grows... they cannot FORCE you to buy "big pharma" products. worst case scenario, those who grow the best under current law will still grow the best under a federally legal scene. if they try to shut down homegrowing (like they have for the last 40 years, LOL!) they will fail miserably (as usual) and folks STILL won't be going to jail for pot. i fail to see a REAL downside for the average cannabis enthusiast...

 

[glow]

My point is that as the market expands consumers will really determine where it will go.

I think it will turn out better than the naysayers think it will, at least for the vast majority of users.

Long a badge of the counter culture, legalization lets cannabis become something much larger, mainstream, part of the system. It lets us take our rightful place among the other sinners- drinkers, gamblers & smokers, all of whom are afforded at least some accommodation.

Quite where that will go, I really can't say for sure, nobody can, but we need to embrace it because it changes everything at the level of personal use. Other than avoiding driving when high or more than just a little bit high, there's no paranoia, because we don't do anything that's illegal. Here in Denver, I could sit on my very public front porch, toke up my homegrown, and there's nobody to say otherwise. Pocket electronic vaporizers are ubiquitous among the younger crowd frequenting the entertainment venues on nearby S Broadway. They look just like the ones used for tobacco products. If the market & the milieu has much direction atm, I think that's it- discrete toking when out & about.

I agree completely and if you track the last decade you can already see how much things have got better for growers and consumers alike. Its all too easy to be afraid of progress but I def think things will turn out well and are already looking far far far better than they were. As long as things keep progressing this way all good (albeit I expect a few glitches and anomalies along the way)

 

[glow]

stay classy...

Ditto --- nice call

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree completely and if you track the last decade you can already see how much things have got better for growers and consumers alike. Its all too easy to be afraid of progress but I def think things will turn out well and are already looking far far far better than they were. As long as things keep progressing this way all good (albeit I expect a few glitches and anomalies along the way)

Thanks for that. I think it's important to understand that we really don't know what "normalized" cannabis use will look like & we need to understand that prohibition has warped perceptions enormously. That's true at every level.

Growing under lights is a prime example. It was only the convergence of technology & the high prices of sometimes quasi illegality that have made it worthwhile at all. High prices have led to other phenomena, like naked bud (price justification) & BHO (like pig farming, everything but the oink).

There are a lot of forces fighting to keep it all indoors- Growers & regulators alike, but I see that as temporary for a lot of reasons.

When this goes nationwide, as I'm sure it will, the Agra guys will have a say in how that happens. Not just the giants but the prosperous farmers that have always had influence in Congress. They'll want to be a part of it, and that means growing outdoors.

That's some years away, no doubt, but just how many is very hard to say. I think that legalization is pretty much locked in, given results so far, and that the pace will accelerate.

When it's completely legal to get high, other things will necessarily change as well. Current cannabis urine testing methods will have to go because they don't prove anything other than criminality.

 

[armedoldhippy]

"you must spread the wealth before giving any more rep to Jhhnn..." stupid damned computer! you got it coming, bro!

 

[Donn]

Do Colorado regulations require indoor growing? Washington sure doesn't, but there's a lot of indoor and greenhouse due to the climate.

I'm more interested in what we grow, than how.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do Colorado regulations require indoor growing? Washington sure doesn't, but there's a lot of indoor and greenhouse due to the climate.

I'm more interested in what we grow, than how.

Some MMJ growing is outdoors. I've never been a part of that, so I really don't know the details. Retail growing is in greenhouses or indoors. Personal growing outdoors is a grey area because we really haven't had court rulings on the meaning of that particular language in A64.

See sec 2-

http://www.regulatemarijuana.org/s/regulate-marijuana-alcohol-act-2012

I won't go into the details, but our back yard is way too public. Some of my neighbors do it w/o issue in more secluded yards. If the plant counts are right, I figure the worst that would happen is that a person would have to chop 'em. I've tried in vain to find a State or Denver ordinance defining it as illegal let alone what the penalty might be.

I'm quite sure that there are thousands of back yard grows all over the metro area.

The key to all of it, I think, is to hold to legal plant counts, period. People who grow under extended MMJ plant counts or as caregivers need to have their paperwork current & all tidied up, right where they can find it in a flash. They also need to be cognizant that some municipalities place greater restrictions on caregivers, for example.

OTOH, a couple can have 12 plants, 6 flowering- everywhere in the state as a constitutional right. No paperwork, no bullshit. Just do it.

 

[Donn]

An earlier draft of the rules only allowed greenhouses and outdoor cultivation centers to produce half of the plants that indoor grows are allowed to sow. The new regulations put outdoor and indoor grows on the same playing field – both can grow up to 3,600 marijuana plants.

... from http://mjbizdaily.com/dozens-of-new-regulations-for-colorado-cannabis-businesses/

It's kind of weird to me that they care, indoor vs. outdoor, but anyway it appears that both are allowed per regulation.

 

[armedoldhippy]

... from http://mjbizdaily.com/dozens-of-new-regulations-for-colorado-cannabis-businesses/

It's kind of weird to me that they care, indoor vs. outdoor, but anyway it appears that both are allowed per regulation.

outdoor equals visible, which tempts underage folks & thieves (or both), causing armed robberies & peoples spoiled-ass 15 year olds to get their ass dog-bit and bird-shot sprayed, NONE of which does any of us any good... public relations is our number one concern until it is federally legal.

 

[Jhhnn]

... from http://mjbizdaily.com/dozens-of-new-regulations-for-colorado-cannabis-businesses/

It's kind of weird to me that they care, indoor vs. outdoor, but anyway it appears that both are allowed per regulation.

Thank you. I hadn't been keeping up with it.

I see it as a good thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

outdoor equals visible, which tempts underage folks & thieves (or both), causing armed robberies & peoples spoiled-ass 15 year olds to get their ass dog-bit and bird-shot sprayed, NONE of which does any of us any good... public relations is our number one concern until it is federally legal.

It's likely that they need fences like junkyards & high security along with a pack of lovely Dobermans after dark.

Years ago, a friend rented the upstairs apartment in a building with dogs at night. They had to be trained to accept George. Their training was interesting, to say the least- they wouldn't bother anybody who came in, just anybody who tried to leave...

 

[glow]

Thanks for that. I think it's important to understand that we really don't know what "normalized" cannabis use will look like & we need to understand that prohibition has warped perceptions enormously. That's true at every level.

Growing under lights is a prime example. It was only the convergence of technology & the high prices of sometimes quasi illegality that have made it worthwhile at all. High prices have led to other phenomena, like naked bud (price justification) & BHO (like pig farming, everything but the oink).

There are a lot of forces fighting to keep it all indoors- Growers & regulators alike, but I see that as temporary for a lot of reasons.

When this goes nationwide, as I'm sure it will, the Agra guys will have a say in how that happens. Not just the giants but the prosperous farmers that have always had influence in Congress. They'll want to be a part of it, and that means growing outdoors.

That's some years away, no doubt, but just how many is very hard to say. I think that legalization is pretty much locked in, given results so far, and that the pace will accelerate.

When it's completely legal to get high, other things will necessarily change as well. Current cannabis urine testing methods will have to go because they don't prove anything other than criminality.

Agree completely although would add that much of the outdoor situation is perhaps also governed by the fact that at a Fed level it is still illegal which prevent big ag from stepping in due to risk. If laws change at a Fed level I think we will see major changes in production trends and distribution modes also.

 

[paper thorn]

Hey, here in AZ, there's a Dairy Farmer named Sean Dugan, who's been approved by the Pinal County Board to run eight or ten 5 acre MMJ grows for various dispensaries. I think it'll be a few months before they get to planting, (still a couple more hurdles and hoops.)

Dugan family is big in the dairy bizz. Dugan Dairy, Triple D, Sidewinder Dairy. Sidewinder is the entity that will be doing it.

So I've got a 5 acre piece of land and it would be a hell of a lot of pot. Heck, I've got an acre and a third here at my house and my back yard is a full acre. Man I can imagine that all blown up...
Grow an acre of Diesel.

anyway, who knows what that will do to the price and supply. Maybe turn a whole field of tightly packed plants into errl. Batches of oil that go 500 pounds.