Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[Jhhnn]

You can thank gazillionair George Soros for that. Who incidentally pumped quite a bit of money into co, Wa, OR, and currently Fla, AZ, and other states for the 2014 election cycle. He also owns a very heavy share of Monsanto who is working on patenting gmo marijuana seed through which he can make huge profits on it . As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.

Gotta love the conspiracy theorizing & projection. Soros is almost 84, so it seems unlikely that he has a huge interest in long range money making schemes. I think he's more interested in promoting his own vision of Society through various foundations. Taken at face value, it's not a dark repressive vision at all.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303467004575574450703567656

There's nothing like a juicy conspiracy theory to keep the chumps riled up & the money rolling in, however. It's a major industry with a lot of players whose interests are obviously quite different than Soros'.

 

[resinryder]

I know. I know. Everything is a conspiracy theory. lol

 

[Seaf0ur]

So.... this thread is, should cannabis be legalized... I've heard plenty of conjecture... allow me to inject some reality...

Cannabis should be legal so that jacked up control freak steroid enraged cops can no longer murder people with the only reprimand being a paid vacation.


Florida man killed in his home during police raid over $2 worth of marijuana

Raiding homes for drugs is "not an exact science," says the chief.

TAMPA, FL — A man was shot to death in his bedroom by a SWAT team that had stormed in uninvited looking for contraband plants. The violence — which netted only trace amounts of illegal vegetation — adds another casualty to the death toll in America’s bloody Drug War.

* * * * *

The raid occurred the night of May 27th, 2014, in the Tampa neighborhood of Seminole Heights. Jason Westcott, 29, and his housemate were asleep in separate rooms when the Tampa SWAT team arrived to search the premises.

Police claimed that they knocked, received no answer, then barged in when they discovered the door was unlocked. The individual sleeping on the couch was quickly detained and the intruders made their way to Mr. Westcott’s bedroom.

Jason Westcott

In the split-second confusion of being jarred awake by strange noises, Westcott picked up his pistol in a futile effort to defend himself. It would be the last decision he ever made. Police skillfully entered his sleeping quarters and opened fire on the man that supposedly “threatened the officers.”

Mr. Westcott did not fire a shot. He was mortally wounded when struck with multiple shotgun slugs and pistol rounds.

Westcott had been targeted because the government suspected him of partaking in smoking and selling marijuana. The raid did not produce any cache of drugs, however. The search of the tiny 600 square-foot house netted a total of 0.2 grams of marijuana — valued at $2. Police had committed a violent home invasion, taken a life, and ruined many others to rid the streets of roughly one marijuana cigarette.

Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor defended the raid, sheepishly saying that finding drugs “is not an exact science.”

The pretexts of the search warrant were questionable. Initially, the department claimed their actions were based on neighborhood complaints, but their story changed when the Tampa Bay Times pressed for records to back up the assertions; apparently they did not exist. The second version of events stated that Mr. Westcott had sold marijuana to an undercover police officer, but that story, too, was retracted. The department’s third “revised” story alleged that a confidential informer — not complaining neighbors or an undercover cop — had told the police that Mr. Westcott was a drug dealer who had sold weed at the house in the past.

Even if one believes the secret witness — who is likely under police pressure to produce tips in order to avoid his or her own prosecution — the allegations held that four transactions took place, each for small amounts of cash. Over the course of months, these alleged sales totaled just a couple hundred dollars — hardly worth expending taxpayers’ resources fretting about. But that did not stop the Tampa Police Department from deploying the maximum amount of force available.

Israel Reyes, roommate of the decedent, gave some insight to the Tampa Bay Times regarding the menial pot habit that inspired such a violent reaction:

Reyes said he and Westcott were not hardened drug dealers, but habitual pot smokers who sometimes sold to acquaintances. He said they never kept more than 12 grams — a misdemeanor possession amount — in the house.

“We would just sell a blunt here and there to our friends or whatever. It was no crazy thing. There weren’t people coming in and out of our house every day,” he said. “It wasn’t paying any bills. We were still broke . . . going to work every day.”

If investigators had witnessed the sales firsthand rather than relying an informer, he said, they would not have called in a SWAT team prepared to face violent drug traffickers.

“That much force wasn’t necessary for this little,” Reyes said.

Mr. Westcott, who worked as a motorcycle mechanic, had one arrest, 11 years prior, for misdemeanor marijuana possession. Even his landlord vouched for him, praising the problem-free rental experience. Besides paying the rent on time, neighbors said the two men “were nice and quiet and minded their own business.”

Nothing has ever suggested that Mr. Westcott would ever knowingly and intentionally threaten a police officer. He had presented no problems to TPD and had in fact called them to request their help only a few months before. When Westcott was threatened, it was TPD investigators themselves who had told him to arm himself and prepare to shoot intruders, the The Tampa Bay Times reported:

A man who had partied at Westcott’s home was plotting to rob him. An itinerant motorcycle mechanic, Westcott didn’t have much — two televisions and a handgun that once belonged to his brother were perhaps the most valuable possessions in his 600-square-foot house in Seminole Heights — but he was terrified by his would-be intruder’s threats to kill him.

Police tracked down the suspect and warned him to stay away. Westcott, those close to him said, was left with a word of advice from the investigating officers: If anyone breaks into this house, grab your gun and shoot to kill.

On the night of May 27, as armed men streamed through his front door, Westcott grabbed his gun. But the 29-year-old didn’t have a chance to shoot before he died in a volley of gunfire. And those who killed him weren’t robbers.

They were police officers from the same agency he had enlisted to protect his home.

After encouraging him to boost his personal security, police then used Westcott’s purchase of a home security system as evidence of his alleged illegal activity.

Upset with the changing stories and the smearing of her son’s reputation, Westcott’s mother told Tampa’s FOX 13 that police were engaging in a “coverup.”

“He goes and buys a security system, and Tampa police say it’s because he’s a big-time drug dealer? No. It’s because he called you to protect him, and then you killed him,” said his mother, Patti Silliman.



So.... now.... who thinks we should allow this type of rampant bullshit to continue, simply because we aren't getting everything that we want all at once?

 

[hush]

But Seaf0ur, right now while it's illegal I can have a shit ton of plants in my bedroom, and once it's legal the bastards will force me to only have 4 plants, and that's bullshit, I'm a sovereign citizen! I shouldn't have to have big brother and Monsanto come in and legalize something which makes me only have 4 plants, even though I've previously been growing entire rooms of them illegally, and could continue to do so if I understood logic. Fuck that. And right now I make fat stacks selling weed for $400/oz which helps me to be lazy and not have to think of a real business plan that I can retire from one day. I shouldn't have to work! This is bullshit! Who cares if a few people go to jail. At least I don't have to compete with Monsanto and big business, or have to adjust my methods of making fat cash, son. It's been illegal all along, people are used to it, at least I'm a sovereign citizen who reads beforeitsnews.com, and I won't let them stop sending people to jail for buying it until I also won't get sent to jail for growing it. That's right, when they legalize it, I could go to jail for growing it! (?!!?) so here's your legalization everyone! That's right! Vote no for legalization so that I can keep profiting from its illegality because once they legalize it I might have to get a job and that's bullshit I'm a sovereign citizen!

(Did I tie in all the pertinent facts from this thread?)

 

[budtang]

I'm saying that Americans should get first crack at jobs in America instead of corporations bringing in cheap overseas labor on temp work visas. sure, poverty overseas is a problem. but it is not OUR problem to solve by giving them OUR jobs & dragging down the employment rate & wages here. racist? YOU were the one talking about "monkeys" not me. I see only one of those posting here...

They're not your jobs. They never were. They're jobs that go to whoever the corporations chooses. If you're going to base a world system on corporations then you will have problems like this. Stop standing outside of banks and offices and whining for them to help you. It's not their job to help you. It's their job to rape you. That's the function of a corporation.

If you don't like what corporations do then stop basing your society on the existence of corporations.

 

[budtang]

It's also remarkable how you circle around to making the same unproveable assertions as fact, time & time again, conflate different issues as obfuscation.

How much do you charge for your Gypsy crystal ball readings, again?

You can make long post in response to me all you want, but I won't EVER read them because of your lack of knowledge on cannabis horticulture. If you grew good weed I would listen to what you have to say, but the plants on your profile are a joke. Colorado OG's weed looked way better than yours and he is working with 500 lights. You're working with a closet and one light. Your bud still didn't look as good as his.

Just because there is no future in the industry for you doesn't mean there isn't for the rest of us who actually know what we're doing.

 

[budtang]

So.... this thread is, should cannabis be legalized... I've heard plenty of conjecture... allow me to inject some reality...

Cannabis should be legal so that jacked up control freak steroid enraged cops can no longer murder people with the only reprimand being a paid vacation.


Florida man killed in his home during police raid over $2 worth of marijuana

Raiding homes for drugs is "not an exact science," says the chief.

View Image

TAMPA, FL — A man was shot to death in his bedroom by a SWAT team that had stormed in uninvited looking for contraband plants. The violence — which netted only trace amounts of illegal vegetation — adds another casualty to the death toll in America’s bloody Drug War.

* * * * *

The raid occurred the night of May 27th, 2014, in the Tampa neighborhood of Seminole Heights. Jason Westcott, 29, and his housemate were asleep in separate rooms when the Tampa SWAT team arrived to search the premises.

Police claimed that they knocked, received no answer, then barged in when they discovered the door was unlocked. The individual sleeping on the couch was quickly detained and the intruders made their way to Mr. Westcott’s bedroom.

View Image
Jason Westcott

In the split-second confusion of being jarred awake by strange noises, Westcott picked up his pistol in a futile effort to defend himself. It would be the last decision he ever made. Police skillfully entered his sleeping quarters and opened fire on the man that supposedly “threatened the officers.”

Mr. Westcott did not fire a shot. He was mortally wounded when struck with multiple shotgun slugs and pistol rounds.

Westcott had been targeted because the government suspected him of partaking in smoking and selling marijuana. The raid did not produce any cache of drugs, however. The search of the tiny 600 square-foot house netted a total of 0.2 grams of marijuana — valued at $2. Police had committed a violent home invasion, taken a life, and ruined many others to rid the streets of roughly one marijuana cigarette.

Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor defended the raid, sheepishly saying that finding drugs “is not an exact science.”

The pretexts of the search warrant were questionable. Initially, the department claimed their actions were based on neighborhood complaints, but their story changed when the Tampa Bay Times pressed for records to back up the assertions; apparently they did not exist. The second version of events stated that Mr. Westcott had sold marijuana to an undercover police officer, but that story, too, was retracted. The department’s third “revised” story alleged that a confidential informer — not complaining neighbors or an undercover cop — had told the police that Mr. Westcott was a drug dealer who had sold weed at the house in the past.

Even if one believes the secret witness — who is likely under police pressure to produce tips in order to avoid his or her own prosecution — the allegations held that four transactions took place, each for small amounts of cash. Over the course of months, these alleged sales totaled just a couple hundred dollars — hardly worth expending taxpayers’ resources fretting about. But that did not stop the Tampa Police Department from deploying the maximum amount of force available.

Israel Reyes, roommate of the decedent, gave some insight to the Tampa Bay Times regarding the menial pot habit that inspired such a violent reaction:



Mr. Westcott, who worked as a motorcycle mechanic, had one arrest, 11 years prior, for misdemeanor marijuana possession. Even his landlord vouched for him, praising the problem-free rental experience. Besides paying the rent on time, neighbors said the two men “were nice and quiet and minded their own business.”

Nothing has ever suggested that Mr. Westcott would ever knowingly and intentionally threaten a police officer. He had presented no problems to TPD and had in fact called them to request their help only a few months before. When Westcott was threatened, it was TPD investigators themselves who had told him to arm himself and prepare to shoot intruders, the The Tampa Bay Times reported:



After encouraging him to boost his personal security, police then used Westcott’s purchase of a home security system as evidence of his alleged illegal activity.

Upset with the changing stories and the smearing of her son’s reputation, Westcott’s mother told Tampa’s FOX 13 that police were engaging in a “coverup.”

“He goes and buys a security system, and Tampa police say it’s because he’s a big-time drug dealer? No. It’s because he called you to protect him, and then you killed him,” said his mother, Patti Silliman.



So.... now.... who thinks we should allow this type of rampant bullshit to continue, simply because we aren't getting everything that we want all at once?

OMG. One guy died.

So, we should hand the industry over to corporations and allow them to continue jailing people and ruining their lives? Under your model half of the breeders on this forum are going to get raided, dumbass.

 

[budtang]

But Seaf0ur, right now while it's illegal I can have a shit ton of plants in my bedroom, and once it's legal the bastards will force me to only have 4 plants, and that's bullshit, I'm a sovereign citizen! I shouldn't have to have big brother and Monsanto come in and legalize something which makes me only have 4 plants, even though I've previously been growing entire rooms of them illegally, and could continue to do so if I understood logic. Fuck that. And right now I make fat stacks selling weed for $400/oz which helps me to be lazy and not have to think of a real business plan that I can retire from one day. I shouldn't have to work! This is bullshit! Who cares if a few people go to jail. At least I don't have to compete with Monsanto and big business, or have to adjust my methods of making fat cash, son. It's been illegal all along, people are used to it, at least I'm a sovereign citizen who reads beforeitsnews.com, and I won't let them stop sending people to jail for buying it until I also won't get sent to jail for growing it. That's right, when they legalize it, I could go to jail for growing it! (?!!?) so here's your legalization everyone! That's right! Vote no for legalization so that I can keep profiting from its illegality because once they legalize it I might have to get a job and that's bullshit I'm a sovereign citizen!

(Did I tie in all the pertinent facts from this thread?)

I don't think anyone is really saying,"Vote No."

We're simply saying get off your lazy asses and fix the flaws with your current legalization model. Don't sit here and shut down every legitimate critical point made about your system because of personal pride.

Like I said, if I were interested in money I would agree with the pro-legalization crowd. As I stand to make a lot more money with their legalization model in place. The fewer the licensed growers... the higher the price of weed...the more money in my pocket. It's win/win for me, but Colorado gets fucked over with your model. I beg you to keep that in mind. So...

 

[monsoon]

I'm still laughing over the assinine statement Occifer Butwang keeps making about "in Colorado you can only produce 24 seeds per year"..

How's that, Mr. Expertise? Oh yeah, I forgot...each PLANT ONLY MAKES ONE SEED....and with only 4 harvests per year and a paltry 6 count = 24 seeds per year!

We are SO SCREWED here. Butwang hit the nail on the head. WHY didn't we see this before we voted these laws in? Damn if it didn't take a fuckin EXPERT GROWER from Bumfuck, Elsewhere to show us the way. Sad days, Colorado growers. We have SO MUCh to learn it seems. Stuff we never even knew about... like the 24 seeds per year production limit the Occifer keeps speaking of. Pay attention folks. This is classic stuff yer gonna need to know when you set up your residential grow op for profit here.

And our 6 count? SCREWED again. Hopefully the Occifer will tell us soon that by calling our doctors, any one of us can legally have counts that approach 100 plants... or..to keep it straight and according to the expert's facts... the ability to produce 100 seed per year. Amazing stuff, huh?

I mean...did any of you CO guys know these facts before the D.A.R.E. class started here with Occifer Butwang? Thank Bob we all shut up and stopped sharing our real life personal experiences on all of this long enough to listen to the way it >really< is... or we surely woulda been missin out on profits from our residential grows. Thanks Occifer!

I really wish you guys would read between the lines on these policies and recognize what is taking place. : )

It's you that needs to read between the lines.

We have a limit of 3/3...but NOBODY IS checking counts. Jhnnn is the only cat >I< know who is in count. (Respect, Jhhnnn...but seriously?) Have you seen ANY mention of busts for home grows or for folks being OVER COUNT? Show us WHERE, please. (we are waiting)
IT ISN'T HAPPENING. They don't have the manpower.

FYI...the folks who WANT more plants here can easily get a medical recommendation and "extended plant counts". My wife and I have had a combined count of 36 for about 5 years now.... PLUS our 3/3 each from the rec side since 64 came online last year.(If you guys are keeping up and doing the Math Occifer provided, that's 42 plants and seeds per harvest...or 168 seeds per year).

such a failure, these laws. Listen to what Occifer Butwang is saying folks. he speaks the truth. We are so screwed here.

The funniest thing about it all...and your ongoing poor comparison of how it is where you are now...and how YOU THINK IT IS HERE NOW.... is that even if you move here and set up a huge residential grow and simply "kill it"..... right now...in this current market...legal sales or illegal sales... you will be making 1/3 the money per unit that folks made per unit just 5 years ago doing the exact same thing.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's really sad, Seaf0ur. Some really shameful shit goes down in Florida.

 

[budtang]

4. "Top Shelf" is a subjective reference that you return to repeatedly even after pointing out that it's not what you think the market wants, anyway. And you keep going on about how CO weed isn't that on the basis of what you claim some other whiners told you. You have no honest frame of reference.

I didn't say that's "not what the market wants." You said that.

I said that's not what 90% of the market wants and the large scale operations have demonstrated time and time again that their incompetent at meeting the needs of that 10%. That's where smaller residential growers who produce a better product come in. That's why there will always be a place in this industry for residential small scale operations.

5. Personal grows & commercial grows are entirely different realms in CO. If what I grow doesn't meet your supposedly high standards, you'll never know anyway.

All I have to do is look at the pics. It's horrible weed. I can see why you believe that you have no future in this industry. It's because you don't.

6. Issues wrt genetic preservation of cannabis revolve around it be illegal & nothing else. There is no reason, other than your mock piety, to think that cannabis genetics won't be explored & preserved by outfits like Burpee & a multitude of others once a national market is established. They've done it with everything else, and there's no reason to think that cannabis will be any different.

It doesn't matter. The genetics that Burpee produces won't be the same as what exist currently. The breeders producing genetics now will fade away from the scene because legalization will turn their operation into an illegal venture and their strains won't be around anymore in their current form. Websites like ICMAG certainly won't be allowed to exist. They'll be target for termination for encouraging under the table production.

That's why I don't like your model. It has nothing to do with money. Your legalization model destroys cannabis as we know it and will ruin the art of breeding and cannabis horticulture. You're just too fucking dumb to see it because you don't know anything about cannabis horticulture.

 

[monsoon]

You're just too fucking dumb to see it because you don't know anything about cannabis horticulture.

Yeah Jhnnnn....when will you wise up and figure out that the 24 seeds per year limit in Colorado just isn't enough and that we are all screwing up the pot industry for the >expert cannabis horticulturists like butwang< who are itching to come here and show us how it is all done RIGHT?

 

[monsoon]

24 seeds! 6 plants! Do the Math you losers!

 

[budtang]

It's you that needs to read between the lines.

We have a limit of 3/3...but NOBODY IS checking counts. Jhnnn is the only cat >I< know who is in count. (Respect, Jhhnnn...but seriously?) Have you seen ANY mention of busts for home grows or for folks being OVER COUNT? Show us WHERE, please. (we are waiting)
IT ISN'T HAPPENING. They don't have the manpower.

It's an industry that's only been in place for 6 months. Wait until you see ATF become ATFM. Then, take a good look at what happens.

What is currently taking place isn't an accurate representation of what will take place in this industry. Like I said, if a random stoner like me is thinking of ways for corporations to hijack this industry, then you better believe they are doing the same thing.

FYI...the folks who WANT more plants here can easily get a medical recommendation and "extended plant counts". My wife and I have had a combined count of 36 for about 5 years now.... PLUS our 3/3 each from the rec side since 64 came online last year.(If you guys are keeping up and doing the Math Occifer provided, that's 42 plants and seeds per harvest...or 168 seeds per year).

Oh, you mean that California process that Jhhnnn and you were criticizing earlier? lulz

That's ironic, and blatantly hypocritical, that you would suggest that after railing on LWSM for promoting it.

The funniest thing about it all...and your ongoing poor comparison of how it is where you are now...and how YOU THINK IT IS HERE NOW.... is that even if you move here and set up a huge residential grow and simply "kill it"..... right now...in this current market...legal sales or illegal sales... you will be making 1/3 the money per unit that folks made per unit just 5 years ago doing the exact same thing.

Who gives a fuck if it's a 1/3 per unit? The original unit was inflated to ungodly amounts. 1/3 per unit is godly, dumbass.

These units you're quoting prices from are MID-GRADE units. As there is no price structure in Colorado for top shelf, because it doesn't exist in the Colorado market. Legal, or black. You keep saying,"You don't live here. You don't know what the quality of weed here." I'm sorry, but you can't even post a single fucking picture of top shelf weed grown in that state. Much less, point to a dispensary that has some.

You know it's bad when people move from an illegal state like mine to your "legal" state and they can't even find ONE example of top shelf that competes against the weed they were smoking in our state. It's a joke.

 

[armedoldhippy]

OMG. One guy died.

So, we should hand the industry over to corporations and allow them to continue jailing people and ruining their lives?

too bad it wasn't you, you witless moron. ONE is too many, & no, he is not the only one. just how damn stupid are you, anyway?

 

[armedoldhippy]

But Seaf0ur, right now while it's illegal I can have a shit ton of plants in my bedroom, and once it's legal the bastards will force me to only have 4 plants, and that's bullshit, I'm a sovereign citizen! I shouldn't have to have big brother and Monsanto come in and legalize something which makes me only have 4 plants, even though I've previously been growing entire rooms of them illegally, and could continue to do so if I understood logic. Fuck that. And right now I make fat stacks selling weed for $400/oz which helps me to be lazy and not have to think of a real business plan that I can retire from one day. I shouldn't have to work! This is bullshit! Who cares if a few people go to jail. At least I don't have to compete with Monsanto and big business, or have to adjust my methods of making fat cash, son. It's been illegal all along, people are used to it, at least I'm a sovereign citizen who reads beforeitsnews.com, and I won't let them stop sending people to jail for buying it until I also won't get sent to jail for growing it. That's right, when they legalize it, I could go to jail for growing it! (?!!?) so here's your legalization everyone! That's right! Vote no for legalization so that I can keep profiting from its illegality because once they legalize it I might have to get a job and that's bullshit I'm a sovereign citizen!

(Did I tie in all the pertinent facts from this thread?)

man, I can't wipe the sarcasm off of my keyboard when it all spills out at once like that... but I know who won't recognize it for what it is...

 

[armedoldhippy]

They're not your jobs. They never were. They're jobs that go to whoever the corporations chooses. If you're going to base a world system on corporations then you will have problems like this. Stop standing outside of banks and offices and whining for them to help you. It's not their job to help you. It's their job to rape you. That's the function of a corporation.

If you don't like what corporations do then stop basing your society on the existence of corporations.

when people get laid off/fired because employers bring in labor from overseas, then yes, those WERE our jobs no matter how you spin it. if I was in charge like you seem to think, we would not be "basing our world system on corporations". I have never stood outside of a bank or anywhere else "whining for anyone to help me". and no, the original purpose of a corporation is NOT to "rape you". people do not get to pick & choose what their society is based on, unless they ALL quit their jobs simultaneously & collapse the world economy. if that was to happen, the rich bastards in charge of the corporations will STILL be rich, we would all be unemployed, & no one would have a fucking penny to spend buying your damned "top-shelf" weed you keep bringing up. do you have any idea how stupid you sound? no, probably not, now that I think about it...rant on, asshole...

 

[budtang]

when people get laid off/fired because employers bring in labor from overseas, then yes, those WERE our jobs no matter how you spin it.

No, they weren't. They never were YOUR jobs. They were just jobs that happened to be available in your location at the time. Now, those jobs belong to somebody else.

Deal with it and stop whining. I'm so tired of whiners like you pointing your finger at corporations. Take some responsibility. You shouldn't have fucked your brains out and pumped out a bunch offspring. It was YOUR decision to do that. Corporations didn't force you people to breed and pump out 8 billion monkeys when there were only 4 billion jobs.

There simply aren't enough jobs to go around.

 

[budtang]

too bad it wasn't you, you witless moron. ONE is too many, & no, he is not the only one. just how damn stupid are you, anyway?

Yea and there will be more under your current "legalization" model. More raids will happen, more people will die, and more lives will be ruined. All under a system of legalization.

I don't consider that legalization.

 

[Sforza]

If you're going to base a world system on corporations then you will have problems like this. Stop standing outside of banks and offices and whining for them to help you. It's not their job to help you. It's their job to rape you. That's the function of a corporation.

If you don't like what corporations do then stop basing your society on the existence of corporations.

I am guessing that you do not have an MBA?