Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[monsoon]

It's working great here. My 15+ year long stint of hiding my completely illegal "we will seize your home for doing this" garden ended in 2000 when I carded, and now that 64 is here I don't even need a med card to have a grow or show medical need to have my grow.

I see nothing failing here. Folks are happy with their minimum wage trimming jobs and other hourly jobs "in the industry" (LOL)...tax dollars are flowing in...the cops and Feds are no longer looking at the patient grows or home grows. We grow what we need, make our own seeds for our own use, and give away what we can to friends as the law allows us to do....all without ANY fear anyone is coming. (we lost that fear when we went med in 2000)

I'm sure others living here can relate in some way, shape or form to how it feels to no longer worry... even if you can't.

as far as seeds/clones and bringing them in from other places... that's about having BALLS...something you don't know anything about. Yes..folks still have tobreak the law...much like you do...IF YOU SMOKE POT AT ALL. I mean...how can you smoke all that top shelf and outgrow everyone here...if it's against the law?

What a dick. you are starting to sound like a narc.

 

[Jhhnn]

Holy fucking shit. This is so fucking dumb discussing this stupid shit.

It's not working currently, guy. PERIOD. The notion that people will stick to 6 plant limits is more than just a "pipe dream." It's a fantasy for little children on par with those produced by Disney. I don't get how you can sit here and claim that a system like that won't be able to track black market growers when less residential grow operations are tracked under your current model. Any criticism you can make along those lines can be applied to your current model ten fold. Every justification you have for your laws can be shot down by this glaring contradiction. You're saying "regulation won't work" and then you're turning around and saying "regulation will work and it will be horrible." Which the fuck is it? You don't see that you're proving yourself wrong in your own posts?

Again, you're not making a single bit of fucking sense. Do you not see that EVERY criticism you just made can be applied to your current model?

You're not quite getting it. We, the people of Colorado, gave up on tracking underground residential grow ops. Gave up on trying to tax them. It's part of the compromise.

Nobody cares, and nobody can do anything about it per se even if they do. You can bring the Heat by dealing or by being busted with a trunk full of weed, same as it ever was, but the smell of weed burning or growing is not grounds for search. Nor is a whopper electric bill or heat signature.

You don't seem to understand how well 6 flowering plants can satisfy a couple's smoking pleasure, either. If you want to see how far people can take that, check out gettogro's threads & album. And you don't seem to understand how many users are willing to be perfectly legal given the opportunity. It's really rather liberating, knowing that your worst case scenario is not getting busted even while growing more than enough to stay stoned 24/7/365 if that's what you want. More than you need? Give it away, an ounce at a time. Horrifying, ain't it?

Give up the idea of making money & it's easy sailing. That's also part of the compromise.

Oh, wait. You want to make money growing pot in your basement as much as you want to breathe, right?

Too bad. It's not all about you, unsurprisingly, never was.

 

[monsoon]

Does the state of Colorado know that a lot of these strains in retail storefronts originated from seeds that were illegally smuggled into the United States and were thus transported into the state in violation of Colorado state law?

Yes...they do....at least at the onset of it all they certainly did...

When the med program started here in 2000 the first question we (the patients) asked of the State of Colorado was "where can we buy seeds and clones"???

As a reply, the State MMJ program said that because the law didn't address the issue of genetics/sourcing genetics, they had no plans to aid/assist anyone in securing genetics and that we, as patients were on our own to do so. As a result, folks did whatever they had to do...all of it outside the law and all under the basic directive of the State who knew the genetics would be sourced outside the existing law. From there..an entire industry was built and >sanctioned> by the State, knowingly, with genetics in place for retail sale that were originally sourced outside the laws here.

The State doesn't have a tracking system to track the mail coming into State because it isn't in their jurisdiction to do so. The USPS here may act on a shipment of illegal contra band if they believe it to exist, especially in a large volume, but as far as seeds/clones/etc... the standard reaction of the USPS is to drop a red card in your mailbox and alert you that they may have detected an illegal substance in your mail...and will further direct you to either call or come and get your parcel >or it will be destroyed in 30 days<. End of story.

In the end, only a narc/cop or a butt hurt child with an agenda would care...or point out such bullshit on a website that is all about "illegal" activity as ICMAG is. I smell bacon.

 

[LSWM]

LSWM...the juicing sounds intriguing. Does it taste better than the baked goods/edibles? LOL. I wish I could find pain relief from eating cannabis products. Sure would cut down on the smoking end of it all. Sadly, ingesting it gives me a low grade headache that just doesn't go away until it all wears off. Pisses me off....but I've tried again and again and with a variety of different preps and all of em do the same thing. I'm open for ideas on the subject if you may have any.

What was your method of preparation? I have found CBN to give me those kind of headaches. It's also why shitty edibles at the dispensary put people to sleep.

When I prepare edibles I first take into account how long the bake time is and at what temp. Most baked goods will work better with a partially decarboxylated starting material. If you start with ghee this was taken care of in the extraction process.

I usually begin with some form of peanut butter or blonde crumble (READ: QUALITY WAX). I then decarboxylate it by double boiling in a oil bath @ 250F. If the final product will be baked I usually stop the process midway in order to minimize degradation to CBN. If the final product will be a pill or candy I will decarb until no more bubbles areformed then mix with coconut ooil or sugar/candy mix immediately.

My favorite preparation is an oil made of 1:2 decarbed wax:coconut oil. I generally just throw the mix into the fridge and pull out as needed. It has a firm texture right out of the fridge and will spoil otherwise. It can be eaten directly or mixed into a smoothie or spread on toast. The coconut oil is key to the mixture. Without it bioavailability/potency drops significantly.

100-200mg of hash seems to be a good starting point for most. That would be 300-600mg of the finished concoction. I will normally take .5-1g of finished product then redose every 4-6 hours as needed with .25g. Seems to help more with my anxiety than smoking does but also slightly more lethargic. Never any headaches with this preparation however.

EDIT:What type of pain do you suffer from?.

 

[LSWM]

It appears that we all ultimately seek the complete liberation of cannabis. Some here see incremental steps as the best path while others feel a quantum leap is required. Obviously, if the latter approach does not have popular support what options are there? I wonder, if all the facts were presented, if complete liberation would garner the popular vote.

This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Propaganda and alienation aside, the plant has so much to offer. If people were truly aware of the FACTS, they would have to be without a heart to keep this plant regulated in anyway, a plant which has never hurt anyone...

 

[monsoon]

Thanks for the detailed info. Sadly...I've tried a lot of preparations/edibles, de-carb'd, in butter..in coconut oil...weed...hash...hash oil...etc. I've wrung it out well and have tried many different times to make a break through...but there's >something< in my chemistry that just doesn't jive with ingestion/causes headaches...or no effect whatsoever.

DDD/back/neck injuries are my fun ticket to the ride. LOL. Bulging, herniated/etc. There's about 7 of em that play havoc with me. Fortunately, for the last year+ I've been feeling fairly well...but I've had about 15 years of chronic pain/pills/avoiding the knife overall so it hasn't been much fun....especially since kicking all opiates to the curb in 2007. that's why I had high hopes the edibles would be a great substitute at one point in time. It's a pisser, for sure.

 

[LSWM]

Only other recommendation I have is CBD. I've never had the luxury to try it but it'd certainly be worth a shot. It's definitely up there on my list.

 

[armedoldhippy]

This is exactly the point I keep trying to make. Propaganda and alienation aside, the plant has so much to offer. If people were truly aware of the FACTS, they would have to be without a heart to keep this plant regulated in anyway, a plant which has never hurt anyone...

that is the problem. some of the more entrenched antis have got big money riding on keeping it illegal. if you worship the bottom line, you don't HAVE a heart...

 

[LSWM]

that is the problem. some of the more entrenched antis have got big money riding on keeping it illegal. if you worship the bottom line, you don't HAVE a heart...

I feel that's one of the major problems with capitalism, which puts profit at the forefront and uses it as a measuring stick. The value of something is not only found in the profit to be made from it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I feel that's one of the major problems with capitalism, which puts profit at the forefront and uses it as a measuring stick. The value of something is not only found in the profit to be made from it.

Agreed. That's actually one of the more interesting things about CO style legalization- it calls on personal growers to foreswear profit entirely in return for the legal right to grow their own. It also creates a carve out for enterepreneurial capitalism in the realm of retail.

We co-opted Capitalism, gave 'em a piece of the pie, and the taxman, too. Even if their piece doesn't turn out to be what they'd hoped, ours is locked into the State Constitution. That's an enormous victory, not just for CO but for the whole country & the world. There's no reason we can't expand on that over time.

We have, indeed, paid a price for this peace. Prohibitionists are paying a much, much greater price because we're destroying their public credibility entirely. They've exploited fear of the unknown for decades, generations, fearmongering about what legal cannabis use might do to society. That's gone, and it's all they ever had.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I feel that's one of the major problems with capitalism, which puts profit at the forefront and uses it as a measuring stick. The value of something is not only found in the profit to be made from it.

this is also one of the biggest problems with our economy, & why the middle class/poor are getting squeezed so badly. until the late 60s/early 70s, corporations took care of their employees & spread the wealth around. they had fairly cordial relations with their unions even, for the most part. they realized that happy well-paid employees showed up most days, did a good job, bought houses, cars etc & kept the motor of the national economy purring along. somewhere along the line some useless prick decided that he was going to get as much profit as he could & keep it for the stockholders. when stockholders in other corporations saw that ol' Joe was getting 15% more on his investment, why, THEY wanted that too. it did not matter that their employees suffered so long as they got a higher % return on their money. now, no one but the top asswipes in a company get decent wages/raises....."gotta hold costs down, boys..." greedy cocksuckers, can't wait for a few years to become millionaires & let the folks that MAKE their money for them go along for the ride. special room in the basement of hell for people like that...

 

[budtang]

You're not quite getting it. We, the people of Colorado, gave up on tracking underground residential grow ops. Gave up on trying to tax them. It's part of the compromise.

What happens when a cop shows up to a disturbance at a residence with 100 plants? That person goes to jail. There is no compromise. You're still policing illegal grows in your state and arresting anyone who gets caught.

The only difference is your not getting ANY tax money from the residential grows and costing yourselves more money by continuing to arrest residential growers that don't follow the 6 plant limit. In a system of voluntary compliance you wouldn't have to "track" anyone. Growers would voluntarily sign up to pay taxes in order to get access to the services that taxes provide. Which, is law enforcement and emergency services. Plus, the peace of mind of knowing the IRS isn't going to audit you for your $100,000/year under the table income.

Whether your state polices and "tracks" residential grows is irrelevant. Your state's authority is only a small part of the problem. There is this other little organization called the IRS that will police illegal growers through the monetary system. No regulations in your state are going to change that. You're forcing your citizens into a position to violate IRS tax codes. If you licensed residential growers they wouldn't be forced to be in such an incriminating position. Plus, you're putting lives at risk by not allowing residential growers to have access to law enforcement services that would deter thieves, violence, and crime surrounding cannabis. Weed grow houses don't lower the value of homes. Crime, violence, and illegality surrounding black market residential grow operations are the problem that causes home values to drop. Your policies are creating crime that wouldn't exist if you approved residential growing.

If you approve residential grow operations that won't happen. Keep in mind. People don't give a fuck about approval to grow on the black market. They'll do it either way.

 

[budtang]

Yes...they do....at least at the onset of it all they certainly did...

When the med program started here in 2000 the first question we (the patients) asked of the State of Colorado was "where can we buy seeds and clones"???

As a reply, the State MMJ program said that because the law didn't address the issue of genetics/sourcing genetics, they had no plans to aid/assist anyone in securing genetics and that we, as patients were on our own to do so. As a result, folks did whatever they had to do.

I call bullshit. Do you have a source for this?

If I'm some stoner on a forum who notices this blatant flaw in your system, do you think the DEA is going to overlook this problem. You guys are transporting cannabis seeds across international and state borders with state approval? Damn. That shit is fucking risky if you ask me. I think it's a matter of time before the DEA gets involved in this situation.

This problem just shows how there was very little thought put into this legalization model at all. It's a blatant violation of CO's own regulations to encourage the transportation of cannabis seeds across international borders like that.

 

[budtang]

Agreed. That's actually one of the more interesting things about CO style legalization- it calls on personal growers to foreswear profit entirely in return for the legal right to grow their own.

Wouldn't it be better if they could have the legal right to grow their own and participate in the legal market? It doesn't have to be one, or the other. I don't see why you believe that it does.

 

[budtang]

Oh, wait. You want to make money growing pot in your basement as much as you want to breathe, right?

Too bad. It's not all about you, unsurprisingly, never was.

Do you think people need legal approval to grow weed for money?

You keep saying,"You won't be able to make money. Boo hoo." People don't give a shit if your state gives them approval to grow for profit. Your regulations aren't working, Jhhnnn. If they were then you would have a point, but they're not. You're the one getting fucked over here by these policies when taxes aren't collected on black market grow operations like mine. Not me. It's your schools getting fucked out of money and your kids that have to go to those schools. Guys like me are trying to help you and your state by voluntarily participating. If you don't want our participation that's perfectly fine. We'll just make more money on the black market, steal tax dollars away from the state, and devalue your homes when we move to your state to grow on the black market in residential neighborhoods.

Making money isn't the issue. I'll make BETTER money if you keep residential operations illegal. By all means, please continue to do so. Keep flooding the Colorado retail market with overpriced mid-grade commercial weed. That way people are motivated to buy a higher quality product from growers like me on the black market. I'll greatly enjoy growing weed and stealing tax money away from your state with very little risk of getting caught as you keep reminding us over and over. I would rather have the benefits that paying taxes provides, though.

It's all win/win for me, Jhhnnn. I'll make money in your state whether your state legally approves of it, or not. I'm only here on this thread to attempt to make the state of Colorado a winner in this situation, as well. But, you're too blinded by your own love of $$$$$$$$ that you can't see that. You can't see that a person wouldn't be motivated by greed at all, but integrity. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with you Jhhnnn. If I were motivated by money I would be agreeing with you and the regulations you support, Jhhnnn. Those regulations allow to make more profits tax free.

The policies you support allow me to make more money, Jhhnnn. Don't you find it odd that I'm arguing with policies that would allow me to make more money? I wonder, why? What could possibly be my motivation for arguing against such a profitable system? Hmmmmm.

: )

 

[budtang]

this is also one of the biggest problems with our economy, & why the middle class/poor are getting squeezed so badly. until the late 60s/early 70s, corporations took care of their employees & spread the wealth around. they had fairly cordial relations with their unions even, for the most part. they realized that happy well-paid employees showed up most days, did a good job, bought houses, cars etc & kept the motor of the national economy purring along. somewhere along the line some useless prick decided that he was going to get as much profit as he could & keep it for the stockholders. when stockholders in other corporations saw that ol' Joe was getting 15% more on his investment, why, THEY wanted that too. it did not matter that their employees suffered so long as they got a higher % return on their money. now, no one but the top asswipes in a company get decent wages/raises....."gotta hold costs down, boys..." greedy cocksuckers, can't wait for a few years to become millionaires & let the folks that MAKE their money for them go along for the ride. special room in the basement of hell for people like that...

The problem is overpopulation. You can point your fingers at corporations all you want, but the real problem lies in the common monkey who feels the need to pump out as many offspring as they possibly can when our world is severely overpopulated. Corporations had a much more limited pool of workers to choose from in the 60's/ 70's. They had to motivate workers to come work for their company by taking care of them. Now, you have an overpopulated pool of workers and corporations can get away with choosing the workers that will work for the least amount of money and benefits.

Don't point your finger at corporations just because you stupid monkeys decided to have a bunch of kids.

 

[monsoon]

I call bullshit. Do you have a source for this?

CO's MMJ program. 303-692-2184
javascript:void(location.href='mail...,116,97,116,101,46,99,111,46,117,115,32)+'?')
Ask for Debra. Ask her what she was telling everyone in 2000-2013 before there were any laws whatsoever specifically addressing seeds/genetics.

That's about the best I can do for you, Occifer.

 

[monsoon]

The problem are the folks who want it all handed to them...like our butwang here and his residential grow. No game to bring to the table, no clue what to do unless you spoon feed them...and even then all they do is type on their phone and mumble about "the 1%" and how everyone else had it so easy and how..,damn....it's ohhh, so tough for them.

What we need is a draft lottery to clue em in to how good they really have it.

Shit..it can even come in as a text.

 

[budtang]

The problem are the folks who want it all handed to them...like our butwang here and his residential grow. No game to bring to the table, no clue what to do unless you spoon feed them...and even then all they do is type on their phone and mumble about "the 1%" and how everyone else had it so easy and how..,damn....it's ohhh, so tough for them.

What we need is a draft lottery to clue em in to how good they really have it.

Shit..it can even come in as a text.

Thanks for allowing me to make more money with your system and screw your state over in the process. You're only fucking your own state over here, monsoon. Not me.

Just keep that in mind.

 

[budtang]

CO's MMJ program. 303-692-2184

Ask for Debra. Ask her what she was telling everyone in 2000-2013 before there were any laws whatsoever specifically addressing seeds/genetics.

That's about the best I can do for you, Occifer.

It's not me you need to convince. It's the DEA. They're the group you need to worry about.

I'm just bringing it up because it's an area of concern for Colorado. The ideas behind the regulations were to motivate the Feds to stay off Colorado's back by restricting transportation of cannabis products across state lines. I think it's only a matter of time before you see the Feds do something about that when they realize your state has regulations that allow residents to import seeds illegally from outside of the country. I could see that causing problems in the future. I think we may see a news story about Feds shutting down dispensaries for distributing genetics that was smuggled into the country illegally. Imagine if corporate funded cannabis breeders, who want to control the Colorado market by restricting out of state/country breeders, decides to capitalize on this with the help of their buddies in the Federal Government.

I'd bet you and Jhhnnn would stop bitching about residential breeders like me, then. Wouldn't, you? What is good for residential grow operations is good for the cannabis community, as a whole. What's bad for residential operations is bad for smokers,growers,distributors, etc. Maybe, you'll get the point when you have inspectors asking to test the genetics in your perfectly "legal" 6 plant set up, Jhhnn. You'll get the point when your seemingly "legal" Royal Flush is deemed an "illegal product" that was smuggled into the country and you're left selecting from a handful of strains from a handful of Colorado approved corporate breeders.

We'll see how much you love your commercialized Colorado cannabis industry, then. It was the best thing to do, right?

: )