Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[budtang]

You can stockpile seeds all you want. With 6 plant limits (24 seeds a year with 3 month time period per harvest) you'll never get around to growing them before they go stagnant and fail to germinate. The cannabis gene pool will fail to stay diverse for this reason. Certain genetic lines will be phased out of existence.

You don't think corporations realize this fact? You don't think they have botanist and experts advising them on how to best take over the cannabis market through controlling genetics? What better way to take over cannabis genetics then plant limits like this combined with restrictions on small scale residential growing?

I really wish you guys would read between the lines on these policies and recognize what is taking place. You can drop the whole,"these policies are for the greater good" act. No politicians have ever given a fuck about the greater good. If they're putting policies in place you can be damn sure there is personal gain from doing so. Envelopes full of money from corporate investors looking to cash in on the cannabis market is the true motivation behind these policies. Not the "greater good."

Spare me that fantasy.

: )

 

[armedoldhippy]

The problem is overpopulation. You can point your fingers at corporations all you want, but the real problem lies in the common monkey who feels the need to pump out as many offspring as they possibly can when our world is severely overpopulated. Corporations had a much more limited pool of workers to choose from in the 60's/ 70's. They had to motivate workers to come work for their company by taking care of them. Now, you have an overpopulated pool of workers and corporations can get away with choosing the workers that will work for the least amount of money and benefits.

Don't point your finger at corporations just because you stupid monkeys decided to have a bunch of kids.

bullshit! when the corporate market went from national to worldwide, they no longer needed to take care of their workers because a huge % of their income was coming from overseas sales. companies that started here are now moving their legal corporate headquarters overseas in order to get tax breaks, & they don't CARE if this country goes down the tubes. when we are all as poor as the places overseas that they are currently exploiting, the work will come back because we will be desperate for work, & land & labor will be cheaper. Americas biggest problem is American corporations deserting the people that made them fucking rich to begin with. stupid monkey? yeah, there IS one of those on this thread, & I think everyone on here knows who that is after THAT post... these same corporations that you think are blameless are bringing in workers from overseas in many cases instead of hiring people here that can do that work. do some research before you put your ignorance on display again.

 

[Jhhnn]

Wouldn't it be better if they could have the legal right to grow their own and participate in the legal market? It doesn't have to be one, or the other. I don't see why you believe that it does.

I never said it had to be that way. I said that's the deal that was made, and that it's advantageous to the vast majority of users/ personal growers. Those of us fortunate enough to live it see it as a huge improvement.

There's reality, and there's what budtang wants. No relationship, obviously.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thanks for allowing me to make more money with your system and screw your state over in the process. You're only fucking your own state over here, monsoon. Not me.

Just keep that in mind.

The state gets what it gets according to the will of the people as laid out in Amendment 64. The seller collects taxes for the State, not the buyer. There's generally no state tax on internet purchases, anyway.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's not me you need to convince. It's the DEA. They're the group you need to worry about.

I'm just bringing it up because it's an area of concern for Colorado. The ideas behind the regulations were to motivate the Feds to stay off Colorado's back by restricting transportation of cannabis products across state lines. I think it's only a matter of time before you see the Feds do something about that when they realize your state has regulations that allow residents to import seeds illegally from outside of the country. I could see that causing problems in the future. I think we may see a news story about Feds shutting down dispensaries for distributing genetics that was smuggled into the country illegally. Imagine if corporate funded cannabis breeders, who want to control the Colorado market by restricting out of state/country breeders, decides to capitalize on this with the help of their buddies in the Federal Government.

I'd bet you and Jhhnnn would stop bitching about residential breeders like me, then. Wouldn't, you? What is good for residential grow operations is good for the cannabis community, as a whole. What's bad for residential operations is bad for smokers,growers,distributors, etc. Maybe, you'll get the point when you have inspectors asking to test the genetics in your perfectly "legal" 6 plant set up, Jhhnn. You'll get the point when your seemingly "legal" Royal Flush is deemed an "illegal product" that was smuggled into the country and you're left selecting from a handful of strains from a handful of Colorado approved corporate breeders.

We'll see how much you love your commercialized Colorado cannabis industry, then. It was the best thing to do, right?

: )

I do enjoy your concern trolling. Highly amusing the way you'll toss whatever shit you can find up on the wall to see if any of it will stick.

Personal grows in CO are completely anonymous & not subject to inspections of any kind. No paperwork required. Colorado does not restrict the acquisition of genetics but rather limits who can sell them. It's perfectly legal for CO growers to possess genetics from any source. Kept cool, dark & dry, seeds can be store for many years. Frozen under the same conditions, theylll keep for decades w/ lower germination rates.

Nobody's bitching here but you. Please feel free to do any damned fool thing you want. None of us will lift a finger to get in your way.

 

[budtang]

It's perfectly legal for CO growers to possess genetics from any source.

Right now, yes. But, how long do you think that will last?

Kept cool, dark & dry, seeds can be store for many years. Frozen under the same conditions, theylll keep for decades w/ lower germination rates.

Again, you won't be able to grow them all out, regardless. You only get 24 seeds a year in Colorado. You can stock them up all you like, they'll never be grown out before you die. Genetics will be permanently lost thanks to Colorado's model. How are you going to stockpile 5,000 seeds and grow them out before you die when you can only grow 24 seeds a year? That would take 208.3 years to grow all those seeds.

Breeders operating out of homes, who are responsible for providing personal/commercial growers with a wide range of genetics, will be forced to get out of the business according to the guidelines in Colorado. If those guidelines are adopted on a nationwide scale the gene pool is going to get very stagnant. Certain genetic lines of cannabis will be phased out of existence once the breeder stops producing a strain. It doesn't matter if some closet grower has 1,000 of those seeds in his freezer. That guy won't even be able to grow them out before he dies and he definitely won't have the motivation to preserve the strain when he can only grow 6 plants at a time.

Nobody's bitching here but you. Please feel free to do any damned fool thing you want. None of us will lift a finger to get in your way.

Actually, you guys have been bitching about residential growers this entire time. Even before this thread.

 

[Jhhnn]

bullshit! when the corporate market went from national to worldwide, they no longer needed to take care of their workers because a huge % of their income was coming from overseas sales. companies that started here are now moving their legal corporate headquarters overseas in order to get tax breaks, & they don't CARE if this country goes down the tubes. when we are all as poor as the places overseas that they are currently exploiting, the work will come back because we will be desperate for work, & land & labor will be cheaper. Americas biggest problem is American corporations deserting the people that made them fucking rich to begin with. stupid monkey? yeah, there IS one of those on this thread, & I think everyone on here knows who that is after THAT post... these same corporations that you think are blameless are bringing in workers from overseas in many cases instead of hiring people here that can do that work. do some research before you put your ignorance on display again.

That's part of it. Automation is also part of it. Clearly, Job Creators require fewer of us to have jobs to get what they want, even if we still need jobs to get what we need, at least under our current headset. When robots do all the work, how will people be able to acquire what they produce?

We need a whole new way to define work & reward.

We also have this growth model of prosperity. Given the increasingly large % of income that goes to the top .1%, we need a lot of growth to sustain the rest of us. We need to have constantly increasing demand for that to happen, particularly on a generational basis.

Boomers didn't have enough babies for that to happen. GenX'ers & Millenials aren't, either.

Therefore, it takes immigrants to make it happen. Brown people, any people, particularly Catholics, who see themselves as being on the way up will have a lot more babies than WASPS who see themselves on the way down.

So long as we're willing to let the people at the tippy top of the economic pile take as much as they do & for their share to keep growing those issues will never go away.

 

[budtang]

bullshit! when the corporate market went from national to worldwide, they no longer needed to take care of their workers because a huge % of their income was coming from overseas sales. companies that started here are now moving their legal corporate headquarters overseas in order to get tax breaks, & they don't CARE if this country goes down the tubes. when we are all as poor as the places overseas that they are currently exploiting, the work will come back because we will be desperate for work, & land & labor will be cheaper. Americas biggest problem is American corporations deserting the people that made them fucking rich to begin with.

They're not deserting you. They're selecting a group of people who are willing to work for less money.

The reason that other pool of cheaper workers exist is because of OVERPOPULATION. They're are too many people on this planet for our system to function in the manner that you want it to function. My advice is to seek out a better way of doing things. I just don't know what that way should be. If you're going to base the world system on money and the world is overpopulated, then problems like this are going to exist. If you have a bunch of irresponsible monkeys who are consciously breeding and reproducing when they know damn well that the world already has too many people, then the shitty work environments are much deserved in my opinion.

What happens to those workers overseas when the jobs are brought back over here, hippy? You don't think it's a problem that they'll live in poverty if they don't have those jobs? Are you saying Americans are the only human beings on the planet who deserve a good job with a major corporation?

It sounds like you're pretty racist to me.

 

[Jhhnn]

Right now, yes. But, how long do you think that will last?

Until the people vote to overturn A64, likely never.

Again, you won't be able to grow them all out, regardless. You only get 24 seeds a year in Colorado. You can stock them up all you like, they'll never be grown out before you die. Genetics will be permanently lost thanks to Colorado's model. How are you going to stockpile 5,000 seeds and grow them out before you die when you can only grow 24 seeds a year? That would take 208.3 years to grow all those seeds.

Seed preservation is not intended to serve those doing it but rather future generations.

Breeders operating out of homes, who are responsible for providing personal/commercial growers with a wide range of genetics, will be forced to get out of the business according to the guidelines in Colorado. If those guidelines are adopted on a nationwide scale the gene pool is going to get very stagnant.

Hardly. Large commercial breeders of all sorts of plants are constantly working to improve the genetics of every crop imaginable, even ornamentals. Cannabis will be no different when national prohibition is lifted.

Actually, you guys have been bitching about residential growers this entire time. Even before this thread.glgl

The only issue I've ever had with home growers is that some of them are idiots when it comes to insecticides, miticides, fungicides, bud hardeners & so forth. Your claims that shop owners "can" test every batch don't hold up to the fact that they "don't" & that they really don't have the equipment to do it, never will.

Even if they did, many basement growers would just backdoor rejected weed to their "friends" as if there were no problem at all.

Some friend, huh?

 

[budtang]

Until the people vote to overturn A64, likely never.

That, or the Fed steps in and forces changes with legal consequences.

Seed preservation is not intended to serve those doing it but rather future generations.

Well, future generations are going to lose access to certain genetics because of your policies. If you're concerned about "seed preservation" then you should be concerned with changing your policies. Future generations aren't going to have access to your freezer. They need breeders/vendors in order to get access to genetics.

Hardly. Large commercial breeders of all sorts of plants are constantly working to improve the genetics of every crop imaginable, even ornamentals. Cannabis will be no different when national prohibition is lifted.

If everyone follows Colorado's model most breeders will close their doors and go out of business. You'll lose high quality genetics that has existed for decades and replace it with government approved genetics produced with THC limits like Uruguay.

Why do you think the president of Uruguay is mocking Colorado's system? It's because he knows what's coming. He knows the politicians in the U.S. have no intention of allowing the cultivation of high THC strains. The regulations restricting residential growing is going to contribute to this problem. What Colorado voters approved is horrible enough. It's child's play compared to what's coming, though.

Even if they did, many basement growers would just backdoor rejected weed to their "friends" as if there were no problem at all.

Some friend, huh?

The weed is garbage in Colorado dispensaries. They're successfully selling "rejected weed" in dispensaries. The people I know in Colorado say all the weed in these dispensaries is horrible. Are you saying the weed you grow is "good?" I hate to break it you, but it's not. I can see why you're so skeptical that residential operations can compete with larger commercial operations. You're probably basing that assessment on the level of quality of the weed in your closet versus the quality of the weed you see the commercial operations producing and it isn't any better. That's why you don't see any future in the industry for the residential grower. You grow mid-grade and you assume everyone else must do the same. It's not so much the "residential grower" that can't compete in this market. It's just you personally.

So, where are you getting this notion that low quality weed doesn't sell in the Colorado market? That's all the Colorado market consist of is shitty weed and it's selling like crazy.

 

[budtang]

Your claims that shop owners "can" test every batch don't hold up to the fact that they "don't" & that they really don't have the equipment to do it, never will.

Well, there are testing facilities that do have that equipment. If the dispensary doesn't have it then the residential grower can take the weed to a facility and have it inspected. The facility would contact the dispensary and inform them of the test results before it's purchased from the grower.

As you say,"It's not rocket science."

 

[armedoldhippy]

They're not deserting you. They're selecting a group of people who are willing to work for less money.

The reason that other pool of cheaper workers exist is because of OVERPOPULATION. They're are too many people on this planet for our system to function in the manner that you want it to function. My advice is to seek out a better way of doing things. I just don't know what that way should be. If you're going to base the world system on money and the world is overpopulated, then problems like this are going to exist. If you have a bunch of irresponsible monkeys who are consciously breeding and reproducing when they know damn well that the world already has too many people, then the shitty work environments are much deserved in my opinion.

What happens to those workers overseas when the jobs are brought back over here, hippy? You don't think it's a problem that they'll live in poverty if they don't have those jobs? Are you saying Americans are the only human beings on the planet who deserve a good job with a major corporation?
It sounds like you're pretty racist to me.

I'm saying that Americans should get first crack at jobs in America instead of corporations bringing in cheap overseas labor on temp work visas. sure, poverty overseas is a problem. but it is not OUR problem to solve by giving them OUR jobs & dragging down the employment rate & wages here. racist? YOU were the one talking about "monkeys" not me. I see only one of those posting here...

 

[Seaf0ur]

THIS THREAD:

Officer Budtang

Everyone Else

 

[armedoldhippy]

gotcha that time, Seafour!

 

[relic1981]

interesting thread. i thought it was funny when about a half of the people growing commercially in humboldt left to go to CO to take advantage of the new laws without even knowing what they were getting into. ill be in cali.

 

[hush]

Seaf0ur wins this thread!

 

[LSWM]

I'm saying that Americans should get first crack at jobs in America instead of corporations bringing in cheap overseas labor on temp work visas. sure, poverty overseas is a problem. but it is not OUR problem to solve by giving them OUR jobs & dragging down the employment rate & wages here. racist? YOU were the one talking about "monkeys" not me. I see only one of those posting here...

In some countries there are "free trade zones" where taxation is almost nonexistant as long as you hire a certain % of nationals as you employees. Uraguay is one, but their new weed laws are a joke.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's quite remarkable how you use false attribution as the basis for argument, budtang. It's called a straw man argument-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

It's also remarkable how you circle around to making the same unproveable assertions as fact, time & time again, conflate different issues as obfuscation.

I'll offer another list, not that you'll actually pay attention or reference it as you continue to troll through. You didn't even understand the last one, apparently.

1. Nobody has offered that CO style legalization is or should be the only set of rules for other states in their efforts. We're merely first through the breach. There's a lot of territory here on the other side, and we're entirely amenable to others doing it their own way. It is highly unlikely that A64 would have been accepted by the voters had it been formulated much differently.

2. If our success inhibits the acceptance of other models, that's an unintended consequence of being first. All of wannabee whiners in the world are welcome to stop by & kiss our collective ass. "That's not what I would have done if I were first!" is Lame-O bullshit. You weren't. You had the same chances. Get over it.

3. Weed purity & weed potency are 2 different issues.

4. "Top Shelf" is a subjective reference that you return to repeatedly even after pointing out that it's not what you think the market wants, anyway. And you keep going on about how CO weed isn't that on the basis of what you claim some other whiners told you. You have no honest frame of reference.

5. Personal grows & commercial grows are entirely different realms in CO. If what I grow doesn't meet your supposedly high standards, you'll never know anyway. All you offer is conjecture as fact from a position of faux authority. Your stuff? How the hell would I know? I don't claim to know. I don't even care. I just hope it's not poison laden Labrador for the sake of anybody you might share it with.

6. Issues wrt genetic preservation of cannabis revolve around it be illegal & nothing else. There is no reason, other than your mock piety, to think that cannabis genetics won't be explored & preserved by outfits like Burpee & a multitude of others once a national market is established. They've done it with everything else, and there's no reason to think that cannabis will be any different.

 

[resinryder]

. Uraguay is one, but their new weed laws are a joke.

You can thank gazillionair George Soros for that. Who incidentally pumped quite a bit of money into co, Wa, OR, and currently Fla, AZ, and other states for the 2014 election cycle. He also owns a very heavy share of Monsanto who is working on patenting gmo marijuana seed through which he can make huge profits on it . As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

This thread makes me pity the mods that are supposed to actually read all these posts! Hahahaha sorry guys...