Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[budtang]

I am guessing that you do not have an MBA?

Thank god I didn't waste time and money on such things. I'm not a fan of pyramid schemes. Every human being on this planet could have an MBA and there still wouldn't be enough jobs to go around. You would have janitors with MBA's and PHD's. That's the futility of our educational system and people don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[budtang]

I'm gonna go load up a bowl of SVF OG.

You know, the good shit you guys don't have in Colorado?

 

[Jhhnn]

How much do you charge for your Gypsy crystal ball readings, again?

You can make long post in response to me all you want, but I won't EVER read them because of your lack of knowledge on cannabis horticulture. If you grew good weed I would listen to what you have to say, but the plants on your profile are a joke. Colorado OG's weed looked way better than yours and he is working with 500 lights. You're working with a closet and one light. Your bud still didn't look as good as his.

Just because there is no future in the industry for you doesn't mean there isn't for the rest of us who actually know what we're doing.

I doubt there's any future for you in the legal side of the "industry", either. Had some legal problems? Can't move to another State to get your grow on? Don't dare get back into your sleazy black market gravy train in the same State? Is your probation officer piss testing you? Frustrated? Forced to actually work for a living, or did you move in with Mom? The Horror!

Tears in my eyes as big as horse turds, I'm tellin' ya.

Expect more of the same so long as you're unwilling to deal with reality, particularly since you seem to think that being a self proclaimed great weed grower is the starting point for knowing much of anything at all. The cluelessness in that is pathological.

My pissant personal grow? It's my hobby. I enjoy it, and it's nice to have no paranoia about it at all. Never claimed to be a great know it all grower. I refuse to deal with it on a commercial level at all. Even more horrifying, huh? Why, if too many people start doing that, it'd cut you out of the action completely.

My single pic album? It's just for credibility, to show that I actually do grow. Your album? Seems to be empty. Why is that? Are you a grower, or a grower wannabee? It's not like you've lent the benefit of your vast experience to anybody else, either, this being the only thread you've ever posted in. Great growers are usually eager to share their technical expertise. What's up with that?

Being free of the necessity of making money growing for kush heads who just want to get zonked lets a person grow for other reasons. The Royal Flush you disparaged earlier? I wanted some nice clear headed daytime weed, with some energy, not too strong, either. It's nicely potent w/o being overwhelming, easy puffing all day long. Vigorous & easy to grow, too. Not as tasty or potent as Yumbolt, the previous run, but not nearly as spacey, either. The price is nice, as well. I'm just having a good time with it. How about you? Or do you tie your panties in a knot before you put them on to establish the proper frame of mind for mindless raving?

 

[Seaf0ur]

You can make long post in response to me all you want, but I won't EVER read them

And this is why we are still doing this... you're a moron who cannot read.

It's an industry that's only been in place for 6 months. Wait until you see --- another of my imaginary futures
....
These units you're quoting prices from are MID-GRADE units. As there is no price structure in Colorado for top shelf, because it doesn't exist in the Colorado market. Legal, or black. You keep saying,"You don't live here. You don't know what the quality of weed here." I'm sorry, but you can't even post a single fucking picture of top shelf weed grown in that state. Much less, point to a dispensary that has some.

I'm gonna go load up a bowl of SVF OG.

You know, the good shit you guys don't have in Colorado?

Well.... This is what I got in MY closet budtang... put up or shut up time... Where's your "top shelf"?

 

[resinryder]

Nice color on those buds Seaf0ur

 

[armedoldhippy]

There simply aren't enough jobs to go around.

the only true words you have written in this entire thread. congratulations! it is ok if corporations give our jobs to immigrants brought here under temp visas, but the rest of us have to suffer with pot being illegal so you can sell your shit at a higher profit margin? I think I see who REALLY needs to "lose his job" in this situation... WE have to suffer under corporate rule/lose our jobs, but you want US to save YOU from Monsanto? not too bloody likely... your arguments make me even more convinced to vote for legalization under ANY circumstances...

 

[bentom187]

Lets start from the beginning so everyone can view what will happen after licensure and regulations are in place. There is an alternative.


Regulatory capture

"According to the Chicago School economist George Stigler, "as a rule, regulation is acquired by the industry and is designed and operated primarily for its benefits."[2] Under this theory of regulatory capture, an industry or some portions of an industry cultivate government to obtain laws and rules that favor the industry.(My edit:or some portions ) The government trades favors for what it wants. Politicians gain political contributions, side payments, and votes for being seen to control the industry. The industry captures the regulators."]



Regulatory capture is a theory associated with George Stigler, a Nobel laureate economist. It is the process by which regulatory agencies eventually come to be dominated by the very industries they were charged with regulating. Regulatory capture happens when a regulatory agency, formed to act in the public's interest, eventually acts in ways that benefit the industry it is supposed to be regulating, rather than the public.[1]


This analysis can be expanded. The first step of obtaining favors can be called "baiting the trap." But matters do not stop there. The trap is set when the industry becomes comfortable with its subsidy, tax break, tariff, exclusive position, license, or whatever. It then begins to extract monopoly rents and to lower product quality. This then leads to further steps such as public outcry and a government demand for the industry to police itself. Then come crisis, further regulatory intervention, and eventually a government stranglehold over the entire industry via a panoply of boards and price controls. This is when the trap is sprung. The market is replaced by government power and bureaucrats. Government, its aim being control, traps and captures the industry.

In the shorter term, the interest groups use the state against the public. In the longer term, the state and its bureaucrats rule the roost. In the end, the government bureaucracies expand. Paperwork and soft jobs rule the industry, innovation and competition are eclipsed, and the public suffers from poor product quality and high prices.[3]

To have real competition and the best product for the lowest cost is what I think everyone wants. The people whom cannot compete would be the pro regulation and licensure crowd if they understood how the concept of regulatory capture works and want to exploit it. Or they just don't care and want anything to happen that lets them enjoy their bud somewhat privately and don't mind the hoop jumping.

Im not opposed to states whom want to do this,i actually think the idea of the federal government respecting the states and the opinions of the people ,whatever they may be, a sight for sore eyes. Mind you they, the Fed's and states can change their mind at any moment. Which to me the whole concept of voting isn't conducive to respecting peoples inherent rights. If one state wants to repeal the laws ,fine, if they go the licensing and regulation route that is fine by me too. May the best states prosper.

I think we all have the same ends in sight, just differ in our approach. I don't think anyone here likes the cops or wants people to get hurt.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

Lets start from the beginning so everyone can view what will happen after licensure and regulations are in place. There is an alternative.


Regulatory capture



To have real competition and the best product for the lowest cost is what I think everyone wants. The people whom cannot compete would be the pro regulation and licensure crowd if they understood how the concept of regulatory capture works and want to exploit it. Or they just don't care and want anything to happen that lets them enjoy their bud somewhat privately and don't mind the hoop jumping.

Im not opposed to states whom want to do this,i actually think the idea of the federal government respecting the states and the opinions of the people ,whatever they may be, a sight for sore eyes. Mind you they, the Fed's and states can change their mind at any moment. Which to me the whole concept of voting isn't conducive to respecting peoples inherent rights. If one state wants to repeal the laws ,fine, if they go the licensing and regulation route that is fine by me too. May the best states prosper.

I think we all have the same ends in sight, just differ in our approach. I don't think anyone here likes the cops or wants people to get hurt.

why would you want that though? it says right in the text that although this sounds like a good idea what eventually happens is monsanto is in the fda making it so that we're eating poison under the guise of food.

 

[bentom187]

You are correct.
I don't want licensure and regulation. I know better. But I can't control what other people do. I can only tell them what is going to happen if they do that. I support repealing the laws that make it illegal. I believe it is the best approach and I know it's not the most popular.
I have not changed my position to respect everyone's rights, including their right to throw their rights away. As long as people in states that went the control and tax route respect what other people and other states do, its fine. We will see who is right in the end.

(Please note that before I did point out that voting was not conducive to respecting every individuals inherent rights, and it still holds true that the voting public is not just throwing their own rights away but those of others in their state. Its just mob rule. I don't respect it or promote it, which is why repealing laws is the better moral alternative.)

 

[armedoldhippy]

everyone here is all for the repeal of the law making pot illegal. but most of us realize that it is not going to happen in one big step. the general public (the vast majority of whom are in favor of loosening restrictions) do not want to see the corral gates swing open & all hell (to them) break loose. it is going to be a series of steps. Rome was not built in a day, slavery did not end with Lincoln signing the Emancipation Proclamation, & we are NOT going to wake up one morning & everything be hunkey-dorey for everyone. "a journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step" but SOME people do not want to go in the right direction, for reasons that are obvious (in some cases) & totally obscured by stupidity in others.

 

[Bud Green]

The OP's main premise is correct...

There should NOT be new laws concerning making MJ legal...
Along with all the BS, in the form of taxation, permits and regulation...

I say, just scratch all the OLD laws (that made it illegal to begin with) off the books...

The problem with this is: It's ALL about the fuckin' money!
either the dealer's or the government's money...

Fuck 'em all... I'll continue making my own booze and growing my own weed,
I'm not telling anyone; or filling out any of the forms and paperwork...

 

[resinryder]

Right you are Bud Green Sr. Trading one dealer for another. Good times!!

 

[Jhhnn]

Oddly enough, I think we're seeing authoritarian forces trying to get ahead of the curve wrt legalization, placate the voters with as little real change as possible. It sure looks that way in WA and now in OR. It's hard to see Oregon's cannabis community involved in the drafting of their current ballot initiative at all. I see it as dishonest at a very fundamental level, not the work of people who really understand cannabis or want it to be openly available at all. They want it to be as barely legal as possible- expensive and hard to get.

I expect very different outcomes in CO & the Northwest over the next several years. What will emerge is the sheer brilliance of A64 as an implement of change. It forces a whole different headset onto the authorities, a change deeper & more profound than what's shaping up in the Northwest.

It is extremely difficult for CO authorities to interfere with personal growing or gain entry to any residence w/o evidence of illegal sales, use by persons not 21 or illegal plant counts. Home possession of any amount is legal, particularly what a grower could have conceivably provided themselves.

Let's face it- if they can't stop home growing, they can't stop the black market so the only realistic choice is to establish a competitive legal market where they can collect tax revenues. That market must be attractive to consumers if they are to forgo the black market at all.

The "will issue" nature of state retail licensing exploits CO home rule statutes quite niftily. If a city/county OK's a facility, the State must issue the appropriate licensing as required. The fact that munis can levy taxes as well induces them towards reasonableness.

None of that applies in WA, nor will it in OR under the current proposal.

 

[bentom187]

everyone here is all for the repeal of the law making pot illegal. but most of us realize that it is not going to happen in one big step. the general public (the vast majority of whom are in favor of loosening restrictions) do not want to see the corral gates swing open & all hell (to them) break loose. it is going to be a series of steps. Rome was not built in a day, slavery did not end with Lincoln signing the Emancipation Proclamation, & we are NOT going to wake up one morning & everything be hunkey-dorey for everyone. "a journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step" but SOME people do not want to go in the right direction, for reasons that are obvious (in some cases) & totally obscured by stupidity in others.

Well im glad repealing the law is appealing.

Besides regulatory capture which will be the worst possible outcome stemming from legalization and will happen because it happens in every market where the government regulates. What do you think is going to get them to relinquish their monopoly on the market considering they will be getting paid by its being illegal or legal. I see zero motive for them to do that.

 

[budtang]

And this is why we are still doing this... you're a moron who cannot read.

It's not that I can't read. It's that there is no point in listening to a closet grower with 6 plants make futuristic predictions about the cannabis industry. It's amusing to watch a closet grower go around and pretend to be an authority on Colorado. If the guy were actually someone with knowledge on the subject it would be different. It's kind of surprising you don't see actual dispensary owners on here with actual knowledge on the subject.

The best source of information on the forum appears to be closet hobby growers. Where are all the businessmen directly involved in the industry located? It would be nice if we could get some of them in here.

Well.... This is what I got in MY closet budtang... put up or shut up time... Where's your "top shelf"?

View Image
View Image

Your weed is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with Colorado. That looks exactly like the shit that gets pawned off as being "top shelf" from Colorado. Every Colorado supplier I know is distributing shit that looks like yours. This is why I avoid Colorado weed.

That shit wouldn't even get someone like me high. Your pictures are a textbook example of why Colorado has low quality weed. It's because you have inexperienced guys like you who genuinely believe that their mid-grade is "top shelf" because of a few crystals and pretty colors. The OG you see posted ALL OVER THIS FORUM is far superior to that. You want me to post an image of something you can find 1,000's of examples of all over this forum?

Are you saying you've never seen OG, or what? Are you saying that your weed is as good as California OG? Seriously?!!!!!! We're not comparing your weed to mine. We're comparing your weed to the best weed on this forum. To the best weed in the world. Which, yours isn't. Anybody from California would tell you the same. The problem with Colorado is you can't even see an example of good OG that compares to California OG. So, it's not merely genetics. These growers in Colorado just flat out suck.

That's what happens when you have a market in a state of 5 million versus a market in a state of 38 million. There isn't enough competition in Colorado to motivate growers to do a better job. I don't think there ever will be with the restrictions on residential growing. It seems as if Colorado has just given up on "top shelf" and focused on making BHO and Oils from their mid-grade instead. Finding good weed in Colorado is pretty much impossible.

 

[budtang]

It is extremely difficult for CO authorities to interfere with personal growing or gain entry to any residence w/o evidence of illegal sales

How do you know this? Are you a lawyer? Last time I checked you were some guy with 6 plants in your closet. Not a lawyer.

They may not put a lot of focus on home growing at the moment, but that's because they're busy inspecting and approving all these 3,000 applicants trying to get licensing from 18 inspectors who work for the state. Wait until that rush ends and the authorities have a lot more time on their hands. Then, watch what happens. They'll start rounding up cannabis moonshiners just like the ATF does with alcohol. Especially, with how dangerously overloaded the Colorado power grid has become in recent years due to the influx of growers using high powered HID lighting.

Smart meters will make it very easy to see who is growing according to the rules and who isn't. They'll make it policy to focus on home growing just to deal with the power production issues Colorado is currently having.

 

[LSWM]

^ sounds like you're caught up in the hype your dispensary owner tells you. Is that top shelf you buy their "exclusive super dank OG" that you can only buy a quad of and it's $120 to boot?

 

[armedoldhippy]

Well im glad repealing the law is appealing.

Besides regulatory capture which will be the worst possible outcome stemming from legalization and will happen because it happens in every market where the government regulates. What do you think is going to get them to relinquish their monopoly on the market considering they will be getting paid by its being illegal or legal. I see zero motive for them to do that.

no, the "worst possible outcome" would be if it remained illegal & people kept getting arrested/jailed/killed/lost their jobs/homes/families.

 

[budtang]

no, the "worst possible outcome" would be if it remained illegal & people kept getting arrested/jailed/killed/lost their jobs/homes/families.

Yea, but that's going to continue under current legalization models. So...

The "average stoner" was NEVER facing the problems you just listed. So, why are you so obsessed with establishing a system that solves none of those problems and only helps people who faced minor legal inconveniences under the old system? Under the old system the police were busy arresting every smoker that crossed their paths. This made it harder for them to dedicate resources to people facing serious charges. Now, they'll be able to dedicate more resources to going after people who actually stand to lose something for cannabis related crimes.

But, hey, those fucking yuppies buying sacks won't have a problem. I can't say the same for the members of this forum, or the forum itself, though. Do you really think ICMAG will be allowed to exist in the future cannabis legalization system? This will be one of the first databases shut down after Colorado's system is adopted nationwide. This website harbors vendors who don't follow the laws of this system. These laws are designed to go after them.

Thanks guys!

; )

 

[budtang]

^ sounds like you're caught up in the hype your dispensary owner tells you. Is that top shelf you buy their "exclusive super dank OG" that you can only buy a quad of and it's $120 to boot?

I'm not getting it from a dispensary owner. The guy I get it from flies to Cali on daddy's plane once a week and ships back pounds of the best of the best. The dude is fucking loaded. Son of some Def Jam records executive. Friends with all the Cali rappers. Snoop Dog, Berner, etc. That's why we're getting access to the best Cali weed. These aren't people who bullshit around with mediocre product.

I'm getting Girl Scout Cookies straight from Cookie Fam in the Bay. Not a dispensary trying to pawn off a knockoff like you see Girl Scout Cookies growers on this forum doing. I get the original cut of Girl Scout Cookies straight from the people who developed it. I'm one of the few people on this forum who does.