Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[ElusiveQuark]

It appears that we all ultimately seek the complete liberation of cannabis. Some here see incremental steps as the best path while others feel a quantum leap is required. Obviously, if the latter approach does not have popular support what options are there? I wonder, if all the facts were presented, if complete liberation would garner the popular vote.

 

[budtang]

LOLOLOLOL PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! WHERE'S YOUR "TOP SHELF"?

The only pics I ever took were confiscated. Plus, I don't give a flying fuck about proving myself to amateurs like you, Jhhnn, and monsoon.

YOU IGNORE FACTS YOU DON'T LIKE YOU WHINE ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT FACT AND YOU GET MAD AND CALL NAMES... ITS NOT A DEBATE, BOTH SIDES MUST HAVE COGNITIVE FACTS FOR A DEBATE, THIS IS ADULTS TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO LITTLE JOHNNY WHY HE CANT HAVE ICE CREAM AT BEDTIME

SHOWING THAT I.Q. AGAIN? OR IS IT AN ISSUE WITH READING COMPREHENSION?

So let's recap for the 12th time:

Tax residential growers = MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR SCHOOLS

Don't tax them = $0

I'm amazed at how many times I have to post this before you'll actually address this point. In debates, you address the points, Seaofour. You don't ramble on about minor inaccuracies on less significant details (Red Card issues) of my posts.

"YOU WHINE ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT FACT"

The numbers posted in bold above are FACT. Would you care to address it?

: )

"THIS IS ADULTS TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO LITTLE JOHNNY WHY HE CANT HAVE ICE CREAM AT BEDTIME"

I'm not asking for permission to make money. I'm asking for permission to not have to hassle with the IRS as I do it. I'll make a lot of money, either way.

Responsible adults would push for a system to tax residential growers and allow them to participate in the tax system. Children would make jokes without addressing the point. It makes no sense that you allow large scale commercial operations to be taxed and not residential operations. These large scale operations get access to law enforcement protection while residential black market growers are subjected to the same level of threat they were before. I don't see that as legalization. I don't see why you're so proud of the fact that rich assholes can "HAVE ICE CREAM AT BEDTIME," but actual cannabis enthusiast can't. Strange. It's as if you're proud of the fact that large scale commercial operations are taxed and residential growers aren't.

You're like,"Fuck you. Residential operations can't make money. Only large scale operations funded by wealthy investors can participate. This is awesome, logical, and there is nothing wrong with it. Anyone who complains is WRONG. Look at those greedy fuckers trying to make money in their houses. Why can't they just be like the upstanding rich entrepreneurs who can afford to drop $1 million to set up shop? You residential growers are greedy fuckers. Unlike these commercial growers."

Earlier you said,"How are you going to get these residential operations to participate in a tax system?" The risk of theft and injury is enough to motivate a residential grower to license their operation under a taxed system. Paying taxes pays for services such as protection from law enforcement officers and access to emergency services. When you start a fire in an illegal grow you're more inclined to try to deal with it yourself. Which, could put other people's lives at risk.

Little children would think this unimportant. Now, go ahead and fail to address anything I say, Seaofour. Post some jokes. That's your debating style. Go ahead and put your single sentence response in CAPS so we can all see the overwhelming amount of logical information you contribute to this thread.glglglgl

 

[budtang]

If you can't get past "It's not rocket science" then you're working in a realm where you lack competence. That can be due to a variety of factors, willful ignorance & erroneous existing belief apparently near the top of the list.

If I need to explain "blue sky speculation" we probably won't have a productive discussion. Had I gone any deeper, referenced a near vertical demand curve set against a variable supply curve & the effect on pricing & profitability in that scenario, it's unlikely I'd have done much better.

Ok, 6 plant guy. Whatever you say.

Gather round guys. Jhhnn is gonna tell us all about the ins and outs of the cannabis industry. He should know with his extensive background in growing 6 plants in his closet.

: )

 

[monsoon]

We understand yer point....for the 12th time. Hopefully SOME state will set this kinda game up and running and a few thousand clowns will exit CO to follow you into your quest of filling the tax coffers for the schools from your (rented) residential operation. (what a guy)

LSWM...the juicing sounds intriguing. Does it taste better than the baked goods/edibles? LOL. I wish I could find pain relief from eating cannabis products. Sure would cut down on the smoking end of it all. Sadly, ingesting it gives me a low grade headache that just doesn't go away until it all wears off. Pisses me off....but I've tried again and again and with a variety of different preps and all of em do the same thing. I'm open for ideas on the subject if you may have any.

 

[budtang]

It appears that we all ultimately seek the complete liberation of cannabis. Some here see incremental steps as the best path while others feel a quantum leap is required. Obviously, if the latter approach does not have popular support what options are there? I wonder, if all the facts were presented, if complete liberation would garner the popular vote.

If there is a monetary system, there is taxes. You have to have taxes to make civilization based on a monetary system function.

Taxes aren't the problem you guys have. It's the very existence of money you should be condemning. It's an outdated system that no longer accommodates our population numbers. Technology is censored from us because the existence of more efficient technology can be detrimental to our capitalist monetary system. Higher levels of efficiency can mean lower levels of jobs in the energy production sector. Combine that with an ever increasing population and you have the nasty mix (more people/less jobs) for problems.

Kinda of the reason I think we should allow residential grow operations to be taxed if they'd like. It only creates more jobs. That's important in a world where there more people and less jobs every day. You guys can't come up with any good reason not to.

 

[budtang]

We understand yer point....for the 12th time. Hopefully SOME state will set this kinda game up and running and a few thousand clowns will exit CO to follow you into your quest of filling the tax coffers for the schools from your (rented) residential operation. (what a guy)

I'm sorry. I just don't get why you hate weed growers being in Colorado. If I were a CO resident I would be begging cannabis entrepreneurs to move in next door and buy the house of my fundamentalist christian neighbors who want to complain to the HOA every time I spark a joint on my patio. It would be awesome to live on a street full of growers. More clones, more genetics, more variety, more knowledge, etc. People watch out for you and your property. The list of benefits goes on and you're bitching and whining? Amazing.

I don't get where you're coming from at all. You're a weird guy. Is it a jealousy thing? Are you mad that people are making money off of cannabis? I don't get it. Would you rather have some hardcore anti-weed conservatives next door? What's your problem, guy? Or, is it that you Colorado titty babies don't want to share your bottles? lulz

So, you guys didn't mind these weed entrepreneurs being in your state when they voted these laws into place. Now, that they're in place, you want them to fuck off????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Interesting logic, monsoon. I'm sure once all the weed enthusiast pack up and leave your laws will stay the same. Remember earlier, when I said that nothing you have to say makes any sense? This is what I'm talking about. You seriously need to comprehend what you say before you say it. From what I can see, you're not doing that at all.

: )

 

[monsoon]

We've seen your kind here...ad nauseum. No resources...lotsa Closet "grow skills".... full of shit and ready to grow pot and make money. Yer a dime a dozen here. You own nothing here and you expect everything to be given to you by the residents of this state who have worked hard for what they have...like their homes. You think you are entitled. You AREN'T.
Get over it and yer imaginary "kumbayama" views of how it would be if everyone was selling from their homes and were in competition. Sharing genetics? Watching out for each other? What fuckin planet are you on? Why do you think security here is damn near as big a business as weed itself? Seriously?

The state (property OWNERS with a stake here) basically said "Step up and step in..or get the fuck out LITTLE MAN.

They were talking to YOU

So tell us again how much money the state is losing by not allowing home sales...please.

 

[budtang]

We've seen your kind here...ad nauseum. No resources...lotsa Closet "grow skills".... full of shit and ready to grow pot and make money. Yer a dime a dozen here. You own nothing here and you expect everything to be given to you by the residents of this state who have worked hard for what they have...like their homes. You think you are entitled. You AREN'T.

None of this explains why our presence is unwanted. How does my presence, or failure to succeed, effect you in any way?

You're basically saying, "you weren't born here, so don't live here." So, if I wasn't born in Colorado I wouldn't be entitled to work for a company at a normal job? Is that what you're saying? You would rather have an anti-weed neighbor because they were a Colorado native? Can you start making some sense? I'm not expecting anything more than a worker in another industry would expect.

Aren't your past relatives immigrants from Europe? Are you hypocritical much?

Why do you think security here is damn near as big a business as weed itself? Seriously?

It's not as big as cannabis. That's a bullshit exaggeration.

Again, the neighbor who calls the HOA association and complains is a better neighbor in your eyes?

If you legitimize the residential operations the robberies and violence will decrease. The reason you have so much crime surrounding these residential operations is because of the lack of legitimacy and licensing.

The state (property OWNERS with a stake here) basically said "Step up and step in..or get the fuck out LITTLE MAN.

They were talking to YOU

Right, but the state property owners are going to get SUED by THOUSANDS of residential growers for setting policies like that. We're talking to THEM. Do you think policies like that are going to work on people with a track record of producing illegal narcotics? We didn't give a shit about the laws before. You think magically, we're going to start following these policies? lulz

You're admitting that it's a business scam on their part. Well, it's one that they can be sued for. The state of Colorado is liable for the lost income of residential growers if they're setting policies that are designed to increase profits for small private corporations. It's only a matter of time before they get sued for it. Government policies that are designed to create monopolies are highly illegal.

So tell us again how much money the state is losing by not allowing home sales...please.

If thousands of residents were growing taxed weed that would translate to millions and millions over the course of many years. As, Jhhnn said, "It's not rocket science." It's elementary school math. Which, I'm not surprised you can't do.

How much would your policies bring in?

OH THAT'S RIGHT ZERO$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

: )

 

[budtang]

Recap:

Moonson's policies= 0$ for schools

My policies=$MILLIONS of dollars for schools

When speaking in the context of dollars, there isn't room for debate. It's not an opinion that your policies are a failure. It's a documented fact proven by the tax income of $0 on residential operations. This is the reason the projected tax income from this system is currently less than what was originally expected. You guys are losing money to black market residential grow operations. Plus, Red Card holders are increasing to take advantage of cheaper prices. When they factored in the number of residents who would purchase weed, they factored in all the black market sales into the original figure. They didn't expect those sales to go to the black market.

This is why it's half of what was originally projected.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...enue-lags-forecasts-as-licensing-is-slow.html


You're saying, "So tell us again how much the state is losing by no allowing home sales..please." [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Based on the available figures, it's about HALF.

 

[budtang]

Jhhnn,

I just noticed something. You've been claiming that there is no hope for residential grow operations in the future cannabis industry. Yet, you have strains in your garden that were purchased from breeders who started on a grassroots scale in a residential grow. Not a commercial warehouse.

You're sitting here buying products from small companies and then turning around and claiming that small companies stand no chance.

 

[monsoon]

your EDITS say EVERYTHING about your jostled and incomplete/uneducated views here on the topic. you speak....THEN you think....then you edit with more educated brilliance.

Grow houses here are like titty bars. Everyone wants to see titties...just not enough to have the ladies shaking them next door...whether it brings in ZILLIONS in taxes or not.

you obviously have no investment in a home or you would see how it all really works...much like the 3 million or so folks saw it who voted for 64 and who simply PASSED on having you/yours in their midst. IF weed was all that was here and was the ONLY thing generating tax dollars it would be a different story...but with only 9% of the population here smoking it and far fewer growing it...the value of people homes won out over the "Rights" of those who don't even live here who think we are here for their monetary gain and nothing else.

the guys living here know the gig. Those who don't live here repeat stupid shit over and over again about laws in place that have no bearing on them whatsoever... like you.

 

[budtang]

Grow houses here are like titty bars. Everyone wants to see titties...just not enough to have the ladies shaking them next door...whether it brings in ZILLIONS in taxes or not.

I understand, but your policies don't ban grow houses. Your policy simply bans taxing them, and that's the reason they make no sense. You allow every resident to grow 6 plants. You know as well as I do you can fill up a bedroom easily with 6 plants. Hell, 12 plants with 2 people. If you banned residential growing all together, then the law would have logic to it.

I honestly wouldn't be on this thread if you banned residential growing all together. People will move there just take advantage of that policy alone. So, I don't see how your state thought it would motivate growers to stay away with these policies.

you obviously have no investment in a home or you would see how it all really works...much like the 3 million or so folks saw it who voted for 64 and who simply PASSED on having you/yours in their midst. IF weed was all that was here and was the ONLY thing generating tax dollars it would be a different story...but with only 9% of the population here smoking it and far fewer growing it...the value of people homes won out over the "Rights" of those who don't even live here who think we are here for their monetary gain and nothing else.

Again, your state doesn't ban residential growing. It approves it for everyone. This is why NOTHING you're saying makes any goddamn sense.

What the fuck are you talking about? Residents have a problem with residential growing, so they approve residential growing for every resident? You're saying this was voted in to prevent residential growing. Yet, the policy included residential growing. There is no logic to any of this. This is exactly what I explained to the lawyers and they stopped responding to my emails because there was no counter point.

Those home owners who have a problem with it should leave the state/country. Weed smokers/growers have heard that crap for decades. It's their turn.

: )

 

[budtang]

your EDITS say EVERYTHING about your jostled and incomplete/uneducated views here on the topic. you speak....THEN you think....then you edit with more educated brilliance.

Well, that's what happens when you smoke good Cali OG. Not the shitty Colorado variety. lulz

 

[Jhhnn]

Ok, 6 plant guy. Whatever you say.

Gather round guys. Jhhnn is gonna tell us all about the ins and outs of the cannabis industry. He should know with his extensive background in growing 6 plants in his closet.

: )

Legal open markets behave differently than black markets or modified black markets regardless of the product in question. One does not need to be a participant in any particular market to understand that.

My experience in growing marijuana for personal consumption has no bearing on that, something I realize entirely. It's not a market enterprise but rather an alternative to the market.

Your black market experience is largely immaterial in an open if regulated market scenario. Believing that it matters, that it gives you any insight into legal market principles is arrogant pride.

That's because you never operated in a truly competitive market. Whatever you produced would sell at a very high margin. That's because demand for marijuana has always been greater than the supply.

I laid out 7 factual points, drew conclusions from them. In reply, you said you didn't even understand, yet persist in argument as if you do understand, when in fact your position is entirely faith based. You believe certain things to be true in the absence of any supporting evidence whatsoever.

It's like arguing with a Christian Fundamentalist about the age of the universe or the principles of evolution.

 

[monsoon]

Residents here currently have no problem with individual home grows for >personal< use. READ THE LAW. The Residents here passed such measures with a majority vote.

But "tax losses" or not....they didn't pass residential SALES...or any other SALES other than via licensed entities that are set up in areas where the ZONING allows it. (we are a PUD state, FWIW) Most town/counties in CO prohibit home businesses/mixed uses in areas under a PUD >residential< designation. There's a HUGE difference between growing for profit and running a home business and growing for personal use...and it was recognized for what it is and the public stated what they wanted to have happen via the vote.

IF the voters see/think that too much money is being missed they can go back to the polls for another vote to change the law. However, thinking they would change it to say "Grow and sell all you want, unchecked, from your home, we KNOW you are honest all the way around" is a pipe dream caused by "top shelf" and lack of experience in the user. (aka, you)

Sadly...as we've seen all along the way with MMJ....the more folks play and have attitudes like yours that all of this was set in motion >solely for your gain<, the more we walk backwards and are hit with further regulation.

 

[Jhhnn]

Residents here currently have no problem with individual home grows for >personal< use. READ THE LAW. The Residents here passed such measures with a majority vote.

But "tax losses" or not....they didn't pass residential SALES...or any other SALES other than via licensed entities that are set up in areas where the ZONING allows it. (we are a PUD state, FWIW) Most town/counties in CO prohibit home businesses/mixed uses in areas under a PUD >residential< designation. There's a HUGE difference between growing for profit and running a home business and growing for personal use...and it was recognized for what it is and the public stated what they wanted to have happen via the vote.

IF the voters see/think that too much money is being missed they can go back to the polls for another vote to change the law. However, thinking they would change it to say "Grow and sell all you want, unchecked, from your home, we KNOW you are honest all the way around" is a pipe dream caused by "top shelf" and lack of experience in the user. (aka, you)

Sadly...as we've seen all along the way with MMJ....the more folks play and have attitudes like yours that all of this was set in motion >solely for your gain<, the more we walk backwards and are hit with further regulation.

Agreed, for the most part. A64 was never intended to maximize tax revenue at all but rather as a way to achieve relative peace in the marijuana war. Those who accept the terms of the peace can legally enjoy cannabis & live in peace, even if those terms do not satisfy the desires of every stoner wannabee.

Like any negotiated peace, it is a compromise that benefits enough people to make it viable. Nobody gets all they want but almost everybody gets enough of what they want to bring us together in relative harmony. That includes the taxman, entrepreneurs, patients, home growers, casual tokers, chronics, & tourists. It's not perfect, but it seems to work well enough.

Those who reject the peace are in no worse a position than they were before- they're actually better off. Well, until they experience a looming squeeze on profit margin.

 

[armedoldhippy]

"like any negotiated peace, it is a compromise" truer words were never spoken. life is nothing but a series of compromises; no one gets everything they want. at least, not all at once. Moses never got to set foot in the Promised Land, remember? but he got his people there... this is our objective. some of you younger readers here WILL get there, please remember who built the trails you walked in on...

 

[budtang]

However, thinking they would change it to say "Grow and sell all you want, unchecked, from your home, we KNOW you are honest all the way around" is a pipe dream caused by "top shelf" and lack of experience in the user. (aka, you)

Holy fucking shit. This is so fucking dumb discussing this stupid shit.

It's not working currently, guy. PERIOD. The notion that people will stick to 6 plant limits is more than just a "pipe dream." It's a fantasy for little children on par with those produced by Disney. I don't get how you can sit here and claim that a system like that won't be able to track black market growers when less residential grow operations are tracked under your current model. Any criticism you can make along those lines can be applied to your current model ten fold. Every justification you have for your laws can be shot down by this glaring contradiction. You're saying "regulation won't work" and then you're turning around and saying "regulation will work and it will be horrible." Which the fuck is it? You don't see that you're proving yourself wrong in your own posts?

Again, you're not making a single bit of fucking sense. Do you not see that EVERY criticism you just made can be applied to your current model?

 

[budtang]

IF the voters see/think that too much money is being missed they can go back to the polls for another vote to change the law. However, thinking they would change it to say "Grow and sell all you want, unchecked, from your home, we KNOW you are honest all the way around" is a pipe dream caused by "top shelf" and lack of experience in the user. (aka, you)

This statement in bold is contradicted by this statement:

Sadly...as we've seen all along the way with MMJ....the more folks play and have attitudes like yours that all of this was set in motion >solely for your gain<, the more we walk backwards and are hit with further regulation.

You just proved yourself wrong. Clearly, regulation isn't a "pipe dream." As you just pointed out here in your own post.

lmao!

 

[budtang]

You guys have the regulations restricting the transportation of cannabis related items across state lines. Yet, your dispensaries are full of strains that were produced from seeds that were brought into your state across state lines. In many cases the seeds were brought across international borders.

Nirvana is a European company, Jhhnnn. How are you legally transporting seeds from Europe to CO? I thought that was illegal. How is it legal for dispensaries to sell weed from genetics that wasn't produced in CO in accordance with Colorado state law? This is another flaw I see in your CO system. These strains from overseas technically shouldn't even be allowed to show up on CO retail shelves because the seeds came from another country. The seeds weren't produced in CO and are illegal according to CO state law because they were brought into the state illegally.

You're breaking the law Jhhnn. Uh oh. Does the state of Colorado know that a lot of these strains in retail storefronts originated from seeds that were illegally smuggled into the United States and were thus transported into the state in violation of Colorado state law?

: )