Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[budtang]

I don't need to 'post a link' because I live in the emerald triangle and have done it first hand for years.

How much are getting for a pound these days? lulz

 

[z-ro]

More than enough to make it worth it when you're getting 500+ units out of land you rented for hella cheap.lulz you're just a troll, lulz.

 

[budtang]

More than enough to make it worth it when you're getting 500+ units out of land you rented for hella cheap.lulz you're just a troll, lulz.

You're not producing top shelf. Get that through your head.

 

[budtang]

There is a reason dispensaries give top shelf growers $3,000 a pound and outdoor/greenhouse growers $1,000-$1,500. It's because the $3,000 a pound weed is BETTER.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Once I met a smoker in San Diego that liked the 'mersh' press-brick stuff, more than the way more potent Mendo or Humboldt he had access to.

I wonder if it was related to, his mersh connect was easy to deal with.

Him and his wife smoked cigarettes. They liked smoking I guess. We smoked and watched TV together.


I think it was part of a social ritual that wouldn't work with potent weed.


I have experienced something possibly similar when drinking an Orangey aperitif wine with dry champagne. It was fun to drink because you always got buzzed, but never drunk. It tasted too good to chug down.

It is very possible that reduced/diminished THC products will be a sizeable part of the market in 20 or 50 years, whenever re-legalization is complete.

I am off topic, but the topic is getting old anyway. I think the potency of herb is highly subjective. A 20% THC knockout Afghani usually "feels" more potent than a 20% THC Sativa. I think people are often confused by Sativas' clearness(and probable lack of narcotic terpenes?), and mistake it for weakness. I have seen this time and time again.

I could smoke 20 joints a day of Kali Mist, or Double Thai, but 20 joints of Chemo would be devastating. That said, the Kali is technically more potent(THC wise). Once people can have a nice clear Sativa anytime, a lot of people may change up when, what, and how much they smoke.

I suppose to bring us back on topic, LEGALIZATION would surely help ensure the availability of the Sativas for the average consumer. I grow plenty and I would still be buying herb if I could go to the corner store an get some SE Asian Sativa or the like!HAHAH the future is good, let us move there soon!

 

[z-ro]

I've grown indoor twice as long as outdoor/greenhouse, I think the greenhouse blows the rest out of the water, if you don't that's fine but the fact remains, you have not done it so you opinion is irrelevant. Good luck.

 

[budtang]

I am off topic, but the topic is getting old anyway. I think the potency of herb is highly subjective. A 20% THC knockout Afghani usually "feels" more potent than a 20% THC Sativa. I think people are often confused by Sativas' clearness(and probable lack of narcotic terpenes?), and mistake it for weakness. I have seen this time and time again.

I could smoke 20 joints a day of Kali Mist, or Double Thai, but 20 joints of Chemo would be devastating. That said, the Kali is technically more potent(THC wise). Once people can have a nice clear Sativa anytime, a lot of people may change up when, what, and how much they smoke.

I wouldn't say this is off topic at all. You're spot on for sure. 20% indica isn't the same as 20% sativa. Good point.

 

[budtang]

I've grown indoor twice as long as outdoor/greenhouse, I think the greenhouse blows the rest out of the water, if you don't that's fine but the fact remains, you have not done it so you opinion is irrelevant. Good luck.

Then, why don't dispensaries give you top dollar for your sun grown weed?
I don't have to grow in a greenhouse to compare photographs in greenhouse threads to photographs of HID threads. The photos you provided me a link to ARE NOT TOP SHELF.

 

[RoadRash]

I think it's incredibly possible. I see convenience to get the perfect buzz being what the market wants, and people will smoke somethibg "light" if they have low tolerence and then the topshelf "reds" will be for people with more tolerence. Tgen there will be a conniseur market just like theres a cigar market.

I guess, we'll know Cannabis is well & truly legal when there is a big lawsuit over the corporate ownership of the trademark on the word 'Skunk'.

Just kidding but I wouldn't be surprised !

 

[budtang]

I guess, we'll know Cannabis is well & truly legal when there is a big lawsuit over the corporate ownership of the trademark on the word 'Skunk'.

Just kidding but I wouldn't be surprised !

See, I personally don't think that will happen at all. Strains will be more like classifications of wine. You have Cabernet, Shiraz, Pinot, etc. and you have thousands of different production companies producing the same types of wine in different ways. The different strains of weed will be similar. Plus, I don't see how corporations are going to convince the courts that they invented a strain of genetics that naturally occurred in nature and have sole legal right to it's distribution. Good luck to corporations on that and even more luck to them to contain the genetics in their own distribution networks when it can easily be obtained by a consumer/competitor by simply acquiring a bag seed.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Good luck to corporations on that and even more luck to them to contain the genetics in their own distribution networks when it can easily be obtained by a consumer/competitor by simply acquiring a bag seed.

THIS they will be able to do. I figure the govt will require them to irradiate everything they sell to try to prevent folks from growing their own. doubt they would intentionally let any be seeded anyway.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is a reason dispensaries give top shelf growers $3,000 a pound and outdoor/greenhouse growers $1,000-$1,500. It's because the $3,000 a pound weed is BETTER.

Heh. It just sells better in the current market which changes entirely with legalization.

You're very much hung up in a fading paradigm with a fair amount of fanboi-ism thrown in.

There's a great deal of innovation occurring in the marketing of cannabis ahead of us, things you apparently haven't considered. Manufacturers have a variety of options not available to closet growers. They can, for example, blend extracts into herb, even blend herb together to achieve consistent potency at any level desired. They can work dry sift into any potency range they desire, tailor the aroma, effect & taste of any of it into consistent brand name products very much like the market for alcohol & tobacco. They can tailor each batch to provide a particular strength & kind of high, every time you buy it. They can grow & market extremely potent long flowering varieties in greenhouses at prices very competitive with short flowering indoor stuff. They can market select greenhouse & outdoor like vintage wine, with every season being a little different.

Current labeling is generic. If I went around town & bought 6 samples of, say, blue dream, they'd be substantially different from each other. If I bought 6 bottles of Glenlivet, they'd be exactly the same, and the same now as they were 20 years ago, the same as they are all around the world. I can do the same with whiskies costing a lot more, too. That's a version of top shelf that closet growers simply can't achieve.

Legalization floods the market for mids, inexorably pushing providers into higher market sectors. They have the resources to go places closet growers barely imagine. They'll redefine top shelf.

 

[budtang]

It just sells better in the current market which changes entirely with legalization.

It cost more because it's better weed. It has nothing to do with how it sells. It's priced based on quality.

They can, for example, blend extracts into herb, even blend herb together to achieve consistent potency at any level desired. They can work dry sift into any potency range they desire, tailor the aroma, effect & taste of any of it into consistent brand name products very much like the market for alcohol & tobacco.

Nobody like me would ever buy that.

They can tailor each batch to provide a particular strength & kind of high, every time you buy it. They can grow & market extremely potent long flowering varieties in greenhouses at prices very competitive with short flowering indoor stuff.

None of it will be as good as the HID grown indoor. That's not going to change with time.

Current labeling is generic. If I went around town & bought 6 samples of, say, blue dream, they'd be substantially different from each other. If I bought 6 bottles of Glenlivet, they'd be exactly the same

This has nothing do with anything I'm talking about. Go buy 6 different Cabernets and they'll be totally different from one another.

, and the same now as they were 20 years ago, the same as they are all around the world. I can do the same with whiskies costing a lot more, too. That's a version of top shelf that closet growers simply can't achieve.

HAHAHAHAHA! Are you saying mass producers can?

Legalization floods the market for mids, inexorably pushing providers into higher market sectors.

Which, mass producers have conclusively proven they can't compete in. They're stuck in mid-grade markets. They've hit a peak that they'll never be able to get out of.

They'll redefine top shelf.

Well, be sure and let me know when this redefinition begins, because big operations are simply producing mid-grade in mass quantity right now.

 

[budtang]

THIS they will be able to do. I figure the govt will require them to irradiate everything they sell to try to prevent folks from growing their own. doubt they would intentionally let any be seeded anyway.

No, they won't be able to do it. Current seed breeders with patents now can't keep their shit under control on a small scale. And, you're claiming complete control will happen on a massive scale. There's no way.

 

[budtang]

You're very much hung up in a fading paradigm with a fair amount of fanboi-ism thrown in.

The difference I can prove that top shelf is grown on a small scale. You can't prove that it can be grown large scale. That says it all. You're the ultimate fan boy proclaiming that mass producers will initiate a scenario that will never come. It's hilarious. Everything you're saying is totally fictitious and has no bearing on reality. You just want to believe it's true like a fan boy would.

 

[SirStynkalot]

It cost more because it's better weed. It has nothing to do with how it sells. It's priced based on quality. Nobody like me would ever buy that. None of it will be as good as the HID grown indoor. That's not going to change with time. This has nothing do with anything I'm talking about. Go buy 6 different Cabernets and they'll be totally different from one another. HAHAHAHAHA! Are you saying mass producers can? Which, mass producers have conclusively proven they can't compete in. They're stuck in mid-grade markets. They've hit a peak that they'll never be able to get out of. Well, be sure and let me know when this redefinition begins, because big operations are simply producing mid-grade in mass quantity right now.

Oh gods, where to start.

1. I consistently make people sick when I share my weed at bars. Most people who aren't heavy smokers aren't looking for something that will give them a panic attack or knock them out. The market is reflecting this in Colorado. Heard some old dudes in line in front of me gossiping about how great the 50mg infused sodas were. For reference, I take about 250mg when I take edibles for a functional effect. I was in awe.

2. E-cig juice infused with citrus oils are being sold in the WA medical market right now. What Jhnnn's saying right there is spot on. The trend is already developing.

3. I don't know who told you HID lighting is inherently better for plant growth but they got that dead wrong. HIDs are just the best thing man has come up with to mimic sunlight. All plants, not just marijuana, have evolved under natural sunlight.

4. Consistent branding is important. People identify with brands. Argue that with the marketing specialists, it's not my deal. All I know is a blank VC check can buy a whole lot of environmental consistency. I'm not sure how you figure mass production can't compete quality wise. I saw grade A bud down in Denver from legal ops.

5. Big ops are doing mid grade in mass quantity because high grade costs a lot more to produce on scale. I believe I already explained this. Those operations are on the way too but in the meantime the legal market's tolerance is low enough and the margins on mid grade are high enough to justify cutting the bells and whistles on build in. To be honest, the people in the game right now are making so much it'll be a drop in the bucket to retrofit if they start getting edged out of the market. Right now that "mid shelf" you scoff at is bringing in about $8,000/lb after taxes.

 

[LSWM]

No, they won't be able to do it. Current seed breeders with patents now can't keep their shit under control on a small scale. And, you're claiming complete control will happen on a massive scale. There's no way.

There is certainly the potential for complete government control of seeds and genetics. They could only approve specific genomes or GMO varieties for cultivation, and companies that "invented" them hold the patent rights.

However, I think the government is smarter than this. They know that if they did this it would simply keep the black market thriving, as access would be hindered, and quality would be whatever the patent holder decided/was in the budget.

It's much easier to control an emerging market this way, as was done with pharmaceuticals... It's not nearly as easy to take over a market already in existence and subject populations to such control

When i first heard of such a plot i was angry. But i soon realized that any serious government/corporate control would just drive the black market even deeper.

When you have a state like CA, which has a constitution that protects popular vote approved ammendments, and judges willing to protect such rights, its unlikely any legalization law will be too overencompassing, because medical law will still stand unless the new prop abolishes 215. Even in LA, where the definition of dispensary could be fought against prop 215. The supreme court has ruled that storefronts can be limited, but that is all. Limiting cultivation and distribution, outside of a storefront is still without precedent in SUPCourt, and is likely to be in violation of prop 215.

Basically it all boils down to your locale. The feds are unlikely to start raids again anytime soon I don't believe. So your local laws will be your best defense, then to state law if needed. I certainly wouldnt want to be involved in a precedant case though....

 

[LSWM]

Midshelf at $8000 in retail. Can CO retailers also be producers? Is there any limits on what they can produce once they are licensed? Is that limit in the license?

This is where the three their system helped out after alcohol prohibition. It stopped monopolies from happening in the short run by limiting companies to only be involved in one area, retail, distribution or production. In the long run this backfired, and in today's world of jumping legal hoops I'm not sure it would stop such complete market control.

 

[Jhhnn]

Midshelf at $8000 in retail. Can CO retailers also be producers? Is there any limits on what they can produce once they are licensed? Is that limit in the license?

This is where the three their system helped out after alcohol prohibition. It stopped monopolies from happening in the short run by limiting companies to only be involved in one area, retail, distribution or production. In the long run this backfired, and in today's world of jumping legal hoops I'm not sure it would stop such complete market control.

As of Oct 1, CO retailers won't have to produce any of the products they sell. They can operate like a liquor store. They currently must produce 70% of what they sell, like med shops. Growers are licensed on the basis of plant counts with 3 tiers. I forget the exact numbers, but it's something like 3000, 6000 & 10,000 being the maximum. Additional licensing is required for concentrates & infused products.

Businesses can choose vertical, horizontal or a combination scheme of integration.

CO retail isn't something a person can do on a shoestring

 

[budtang]

However, I think the government is smarter than this. They know that if they did this it would simply keep the black market thriving, as access would be hindered, and quality would be whatever the patent holder decided/was in the budget. It's much easier to control an emerging market this way, as was done with pharmaceuticals... It's not nearly as easy to take over a market already in existence and subject populations to such control When i first heard of such a plot i was angry. But i soon realized that any serious government/corporate control would just drive the black market even deeper.

I agree with this. I was worried about it at first until logic came into play and started seeing how much money those types of regulations would end up costing them. Not to mention, big corporations would piss off their customer base right out of the gate. Which, causes people to want to boycott. It all adds up to the lose of money and that's all these guys care about.