Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[growingcrazy]

I keep seeing these vote no to legalize threads and they are all just ridiculous. Vote yes to get the stigma about marijuana turned around. Do you really think most of the public give a fuck about where there weed comes from? No, if they did they would also care about where there food comes from and we know that isn't the case.

Instead of wasting time fighting legalization use your time and effort to educate the consumers so we can have the mom and pop farms growing our herb and our food, like the way it is supposed to be done.

GC

 

[budtang]

No, I'm saying 30% thc isn't genetically possible at this point. Not to my knowledge anyway.

I understand that the testing methods are flawed, but the same flawed methods used to obtain the "30%" figure are the same methods used to determine that less potent strain is "15%." The numbers, though flawed, still give us a relatively accurate depiction of which strain is more potent.

And I don't have crap for pics of greenhouses. I grow indoors. Greenhouses aren't well adapted to my climate. You end up spending almost is much on HVAC as you would on lights indoors and only get good sun in summer. Gotta have tons of supplemental lighting. They can work but they're a huge headache to operate.

If you need more proof then just go look at one. Visit a commercial greenhouse for other plants and compare results. In my area they have to import the plants they sell in commercial greenhouses for the first half of the season because the late spring/early summer light is usually bad.

I wasn't necessarily asking you to post a picture of your greenhouse operation. More so, just link me to a massive commercial operation that produces true TOP SHELF by the strictest standards. I've seen multiple people on the net claim these operations can produce top shelf on the level of the best indoor growers, but I have yet to see a single shred of proof of their existence. These massive operations seem to be producing massive supplies of mid-grade weed and I haven't seen any information to contradict that assessment.

I figure higher efficiency ops are going to have an edge, but only if the markets are so flooded with GH and outdoor weeds that all the other indoor growers go out of business. Gonna take a lot longer for high efficiency ops to see ROI at current rates.

According to LSWM, the market is currently flooded with GH and outdoor weed. Small scale indoor growers who grow top shelf are successful in Cali right now, according to

 

[budtang]

budtang,

maybe you have failed to see a proper greenhouse fully climate controlled w/pos. pressure entry vestibules and strict guidelines for employee's to follow prior to entry. no bugs there.

lol. I TOLD you I have failed to see a proper greenhouse fully climate controlled w/pos. pressure entry vestibutles and strict guidelines for employees to follow prior to entry with no bus that can produce TOP SHELF that is on part with the best posted on this forum. Would you care to LINK me to one? Instead of speaking about it like a mythological fairytale about unicorns? Do you have an examples of massive greenhouse operations that produces Top Shelf California OG that is as good as any posted on this forum from an indoor operation. The claims of their existence abound. The links proving their existence don't.

 

[Morcheeba*]

lol, you know it isnt likely for cannabis to be grown in a g/h like i stated and that is b/c of the necessary capital needed for the build out and risk of siezure by the feds.

why does the crop being cultivated make any difference?


peace

 

[Jhhnn]

lol, you know it isnt likely for cannabis to be grown in a g/h like i stated and that is b/c of the necessary capital needed for the build out and risk of siezure by the feds.

why does the crop being cultivated make any difference?


peace

It's not that much money for real venture capitalists-

http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/19/5618624/weed-greenhouses-popularity-increase

Pueblo & Penrose are near ideal places for greenhouses with lots of sun & low humidity, warmish winter weather compared to more northern parts of the state. Both have somewhat depressed economies & experienced Ag workers dying for steady work.

At the same quality, any comparable quality, they'll be able to kill warehouse growers on the price. Dialed in with the right genetics, there's no reason to think they can't grow top shelf it that's their goal.

 

[Gram Paw smurf]

lol Who cares to bicker about government run n regulated what I call blackest markets, when the actual free market never goes anywhere until it isn't needed anymore n certainly not when the govs blackest markets are so overly inflated in value?
Not like we don't all know there's a number of huge differences between the 2.
Ppl use n buy n pay for crap of all sorts all over the world in every market known to man, it's pretty insignificant unless it's the only supply n 1 has to use it the same as everyone else.
Who cares what any gov does with their blackest markets, not like they can do anymore now to get rid of the actuall market than they were doing 10 or 20 or 30 yrs ago.
Like I said it goes nowhere until it isn't needed anymore, n that certainly doesn't happen with a gov market that forces an over inflated value higher than the already existent actual markets shittiest quotes.

On an aside any profile doesn't mean squat about potency on it's own without the rest of the equation being a standardized measurement of resin production since 30% any cannabinoid (since thc aint the only 1 ppl are looking for nowadays) at less than half the production of another plant producing more than twice as much at 15 or 20% obviously isn't the more potent of the 2.
Ppl gotta quit using the same crap n bullshit "measurements" breeders have been using for nothing more than pure marketing as any sort of empirical dictation of fact.
Nxt you'll have ppl claiming 1 plant to be more "organic" than another or some ignorant crap.
Oh wait,...... lol

cheers all, n leave the bickering to those interested in charging so much for wares anyone in their right mind can't do anything but laugh as they puff away on better gear for fuck all the cost,.......................................................gps

 

[SirStynkalot]

well, here's my opinion on greenhouses, for what it's worth.

Greenhouses can get lumens equivalent to 100+ wsf of HID lighting. HVAC costs ____ amount of dollars based on the local environment. Greenhouses are by nature less insulated than solid structures. If you live in an area where the costs in environmental control are less than benefit gained from natural lighting, it's more efficient to use natural lighting. The biggest difference between building a gh and indoor grow op is how you spend your money on environmental control.

Of course, gh growing is more reliant on operator skill in the sense that they have more problems that tend to be specific to their climate zones. Additional training resources are harder to come by and advice is less reliable. Indoor growers all have the same problems if they're regulating their environment well. That makes a big difference in finished quality too.

Also, remember most people in greenhouses are trying to grow B grade in the first place. All the controls needed to mimic indoor results cost a ton. It costs more to control the environment in a narrower range inside a greenhouse comparatively.

And by the way, complaining about pest control in greenhouses is silly. They have an easier time than anyone. Lot more methods of control at their disposal since they have an easier time with ventilation.

 

[budtang]

Greenhouses can get lumens equivalent to 100+ wsf of HID lighting.

I still believe that bud grown under HID is far superior.

Of course, gh growing is more reliant on operator skill in the sense that they have more problems that tend to be specific to their climate zones. Additional training resources are harder to come by and advice is less reliable. Indoor growers all have the same problems if they're regulating their environment well. That makes a big difference in finished quality too.

That's a good point and it also explains why you don't see more top shelf produced in these facilities. I'm sure that's likely going to change as the industry grows and more players join the game.

Also, remember most people in greenhouses are trying to grow B grade in the first place. All the controls needed to mimic indoor results cost a ton. It costs more to control the environment in a narrower range inside a greenhouse comparatively.

It appears these larger operations can only survive by focusing on B grade weed. That's the nature of the market. These larger operations are pretty much dictated by the market and the market consist of 90% B grade smokers. There is no point in filling a greenhouse, or warehouse with top shelf when there simply isn't a big enough market to consume it all.

And by the way, complaining about pest control in greenhouses is silly. They have an easier time than anyone. Lot more methods of control at their disposal since they have an easier time with ventilation.

I don't buy that for a second. The use of pesticides in large CO grow operations is well documented. I saw one source (I can't find it right now) that claimed 60% of the weed purchased from CO dispensaries is currently contaminated with pesticides. Judging from the weed I've smoked from CO I would say that's pretty accurate.

That's why I tend to stay away from distributors who get their product from CO. It's consistently contaminated with pesticides. When the majority of weed being tested in CO contains pesticides and the majority of operations producing this weed are large operations then I can't agree with your assessment that it's easy to control pest in large greenhouses.

I would say claiming pest control is a non-issue in greenhouses operations is silly and goes against well documented information.

 

[budtang]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/marijuana-legalization-ra_n_2670916.html "I've seen stuff in grow houses – oh my God, you don't even want to know about," said Genifer Murray, the owner of CannLabs, a Denver lab that tests marijuana. She said she has seen cans of bug spray next to marijuana, plants covered with powdery mildew and lax sanitation.

 

[z-ro]

If you haven't done it, don't speak on it!!! All this speculation and absolutely nothing to back it up, weak! Greenhouse crushes all else period, anyone who disagrees is probably a small time indoor grower terrified of loosing their income. Indoor has it's place, it's just not supplying the masses with AAA for dirt cheap....to think hid is better than sun is straight laughable!

 

[budtang]

If you haven't done it, don't speak on it!!! All this speculation and absolutely nothing to back it up, weak! Greenhouse crushes all else period, anyone who disagrees is probably a small time indoor grower terrified of loosing their income. Indoor has it's place, it's just not supplying the masses with AAA for dirt cheap....to think hid is better than sun is straight laughable!

Do you have any links to greenhouse grows producing top shelf? It should would be nice if ONE of you would provide a link. Some might say that claiming "greenhouses crush all else period" with no evidence is "speculation and nothing to back it up." lulz

 

[paperchaser825]

Do you have any links to greenhouse grows producing top shelf? It should would be nice if ONE of you would provide a link. Some might say that claiming "greenhouses crush all else period" with no evidence is "speculation and nothing to back it up." lulz

I would venture to guess that this particular problem is because of the current federal laws regarding marijuana. The "top shelf" bud being grown by "top shelf" growers is currently being done with the utmost secrecy at the moment. Yes, marijuana is out "in the open" but the guys who pluck that bud sure aren't. Soon as the federal law changes I think you will see a trend towards greenhouses. And when I say greenhouses, go check out medman's setup he is about to be the head chef in. That's a pre-existing facility. Imagine if someone with unlimited funds, and no federal laws prohibiting them, wanted to just up and construct a state of the art greenhouse facility.....The options they have these days are mindboggling....PLC controlled growing, state of the art construction materials and engineering....

 

[budtang]

I would venture to guess that this particular problem is because of the current federal laws regarding marijuana. The "top shelf" bud being grown by "top shelf" growers is currently being done with the utmost secrecy at the moment. Yes, marijuana is out "in the open" but the guys who pluck that bud sure aren't. Soon as the federal law changes I think you will see a trend towards greenhouses. And when I say greenhouses, go check out medman's setup he is about to be the head chef in. That's a pre-existing facility. Imagine if someone with unlimited funds, and no federal laws prohibiting them, wanted to just up and construct a state of the art greenhouse facility.....The options they have these days are mindboggling....PLC controlled growing, state of the art construction materials and engineering....

Yea, but the issue is having a market to sell to after you mass produce the top shelf. I've spoken with dispensaries in Colorado and from what he told me there simply isn't a market for top shelf weed. He had to switch his grow operations from high dollar top shelf to lower dollar mid-grade because 90% of the customers want the mid-grade. Even if you gave the buyer the option to choose the higher dollar top shelf at the same price buyers would still choose the lower level mid-grade because the potency suits their needs more. Most people don't want the most potent weed. It's not going to do large producers any good to flood the market with top shelf and cause the prices to drop on their mid-grade cash cow that provides them with the majority of their profits. Big investors are going to take into account which type of weed is more profitable and that type of weed is mid-grade.

 

[budtang]

It's not an issue of whether, or not they even can grow top shelf. It's an issue of whether, or not it's even profitable for them to do it. And, it's not when compared to the profits margins of mid-grade weed that produces more weed per square foot and brings in more profits, as a result. As I said before, big commercial operations will dominate 90% of the weed market, but the top shelf weed market will forever belong to the little guy. It's just the nature of the business.

 

[budtang]

For example, I know a guy living in Venice Beach, CA. He is surrounded by the best weed the world and he "hates it because it's too strong." This reflects the majority of smokers in the world. Not the majority of ICmag members, but the majority of people in the world who will smoke weed. We as ICmag members assume that everyone will want the strongest shit around because that's we want, but we're connoisseurs with high tolerance. Members of ICmag only represent about 10% of the national weed market. The other 90% that will buy weed won't want the strong stuff because it's too much for them to handle.

 

[RoadRash]

We as ICmag members assume that everyone will want the strongest shit around because that's we want, but we're connoisseurs with high tolerance. Members of ICmag only represent about 10% of the national weed market. The other 90% that will buy weed won't want the strong stuff because it's too much for them to handle.

Once I met a smoker in San Diego that liked the 'mersh' press-brick stuff, more than the way more potent Mendo or Humboldt he had access to.

I wonder if it was related to, his mersh connect was easy to deal with.

Him and his wife smoked cigarettes. They liked smoking I guess. We smoked and watched TV together.


I think it was part of a social ritual that wouldn't work with potent weed.


I have experienced something possibly similar when drinking an Orangey aperitif wine with dry champagne. It was fun to drink because you always got buzzed, but never drunk. It tasted too good to chug down.

It is very possible that reduced/diminished THC products will be a sizeable part of the market in 20 or 50 years, whenever re-legalization is complete.

 

[Jhhnn]

For example, I know a guy living in Venice Beach, CA. He is surrounded by the best weed the world and he "hates it because it's too strong." This reflects the majority of smokers in the world. Not the majority of ICmag members, but the majority of people in the world who will smoke weed. We as ICmag members assume that everyone will want the strongest shit around because that's we want, but we're connoisseurs with high tolerance. Members of ICmag only represent about 10% of the national weed market. The other 90% that will buy weed won't want the strong stuff because it's too much for them to handle.

Or maybe your definition of pure potency as the sole criteria for top shelf quality isn't a good definition at all. It's like saying that 151 rum is the best.

If that's what people want, they'll do extracts.

Top shelf herb has to be very potent, no doubt, but having that alone does not define top shelf. I've had some extremely potent herb that was boring, lacked good flavor or hit my lungs like a fireball. None of that was top shelf at all. I've also had some that was extremely entertaining, tasted great & smoked smooth as silk, even when it wasn't quite as strong. That's my definition of top shelf. I've had mostly in between all those extremes.

 

[LSWM]

Once I met a smoker in San Diego that liked the 'mersh' press-brick stuff, more. more than the way more potent Mendo or Humboldt he had access to.

I wonder if it was related to, his mersh connect was easy to deal with.

Him and his wife smoked cigarettes. They liked smoking I guess. We smoked and watched TV together.


I think it was part of a social ritual that wouldn't work with potent weed.


I have experienced something possibly similar when drinking an Orangey aperitif wine with dry champagne. It was fun to drink because you always got buzzed, but never drunk. It tasted too good to chug down.

It is very possible that reduced/diminished THC products will be a sizeable part of the market in 20 or 50 years, whenever re-legalization is complete.

I think it's incredibly possible. I see convenience to get the perfect buzz being what the market wants, and people will smoke somethibg "light" if they have low tolerence and then the topshelf "reds" will be for people with more tolerence. Tgen there will be a conniseur market just like theres a cigar market.

Then again, MJ last much longer thab nicotine and is much more powerful, so tobacco dynamics may not play the same to cannabis.

 

[z-ro]

Do you have any links to greenhouse grows producing top shelf? It should would be nice if ONE of you would provide a link. Some might say that claiming "greenhouses crush all else period" with no evidence is "speculation and nothing to back it up." lulz

I don't need to 'post a link' because I live in the emerald triangle and have done it first hand for years, lulz....so have many of my friends, lulz....99% of people who grow big don't post online, but if you need a reference check out fishers thread in the greenhouse forum here on this very site. You on the other hand probly live in the Midwest at your parents house still school starts back up. Sun grown beats indoor hands down more terps better structure more yield.

 

[budtang]

Or maybe your definition of pure potency as the sole criteria for top shelf quality isn't a good definition at all. It's like saying that 151 rum is the best.

You don't see shitty tasting top shelf weed. Alcohol trends don't apply. It doesn't matter what my definition is of top shelf. It matters what the market's definition is for top shelf. Weed is priced largely based on potency. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. Anyone trying to sell 7% weed at top shelf prices because DJ Short said it's the best won't have much a loyal customer base. They'll go down the street and purchase from someone who prices their weed properly.

If that's what people want, they'll do extracts.

Of course, they will, but not everyone wants extracts. Extracts get into a potency range that's too potent for a lot of people. The most expensive weed will always be most the potent weed. The extracts produced from the most potent weed will likely demand higher prices accordingly.

Top shelf herb has to be very potent, no doubt, but having that alone does not define top shelf.

It does in the market place where weed is priced. You don't see 7% sold for top shelf prices. No matter how good somebody believes it is.