Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[ColoradoOG]

The difference I can prove that top shelf is grown on a small scale. You can't prove that it can be grown large scale. That says it all. You're the ultimate fan boy proclaiming that mass producers will initiate a scenario that will never come. It's hilarious. Everything you're saying is totally fictitious and has no bearing on reality. You just want to believe it's true like a fan boy would.

Umm hate to break it to you but no you cant tell the difference. You can tell the difference of a grower that could grow 4 lights but had a shitty method to scale with. One who believes that a commercial business cant produce top shelf is either ignorant or retarded. Your methods may blow but I can tell you I can scale mine as much as I need to without sacrificing quality. Top shelf is based on genetics period, if you cant keep your quality up your biting off more than you can chew and need to rethink how you grow.

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Not to defend WalMart in the slightest, but small groceries are gone because they can't offer the selection of a larger store.

Specialty groceries thrive in metro Denver, however. There are several Italian & Eastern European specialty shops along with an amazing Asian market on W Alameda. If you really want fresh fish, it's swimming in the tank behind the counter in the butcher section.

I think the place for the little guy in CO legalization will be at the retail storefront level. The fees aren't ridiculous-

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=inline%3B+filename%3D%22MED+Retail+Marijuana+Application+and+Licensing+Fees%2C+July+1%2C+2014.pdf%22&blobheadervalue2=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1252007504250&ssbinary=true

CO is full of small liquor stores who operate the same way. They tailor their selection to the neighborhood & name brand distributors deliver to their door on a schedule, even stock the shelves.

I expect the dispensary model of marketing, the visual inspections & snurfling of different wares, the ritualistic weighing & all of it to disappear as consistent brand name products become available. There's no reason to think that marijuana will be marketed only as loose herb, either. Expect quality pre-rolls in packs, pinners & otherwise, along with refill cartridges for your vaporizer, herb, dry sift & extract, even disposable vaporizers good for 8-10 hard hitting tokes & into the trash.

Consumers buy Marlboros & Bud Light because they know what it is & because they like it & can trust it to be the same every time they buy it. In the marijuana biz, that's never been true because there never have been brand names per se or the consistency for loyalty to develop.

In a market that's big enough there will be the other end- people who are dying to have the latest release from their favorite small vineyard & will pay top dollar to get it, too. That vineyard still needs to be big enough for everybody to make a living.

We're at the dawn of legal marijuana marketing. The one thing I'm sure of is that market forces will apply & that they have little resemblance to the forces of the black market that have shaped consumption up to this point.

Here's the issue w your projected model of the cannabis industry - Wal sucks and the world is far worse off because it exists. The world is less interesting and seems smaller. It has served to channel wealth to a very view upon the labor of very many. I agree with your assessment, but O differ with your indifference and complacency with such a bullshit outcome. With all due respect, the earlier dialogue discussing Republicans and Democrats is nonsense. There is no material difference between a rep and demo, that's why big lobbies spend the same on both sides of the aisle. I think J's earlier comment was that government is not monolithic. Maybe. But the establishment is diving the bus.

As someone stated earlier, the whole dialogue needs to be reframed. As long as we continue to discuss cannabis as a commodity, we push their agenda form. Profits, greed, control. I find it morally reprehensible and a direct attack against me that my government interferes with my ability to heal myself. That is insanity. Furthermore, how the hell is govt permitted o deny me from growing my own food or any plant that poses no threat to anyone. There is no legalization on the horizon. There are only cash generating schemes looming like a fat-assed Ronald McDonald. Are we incapable of keeping anything that is good for ourselves? Must everything be for sale? Why are we letting this happen?

Apathy for bullshit is just that. Sheep pushing their way to the cash register. Cannabis is mine and you can shove your patents and your excise taxes up your arse.

 

[Jhhnn]

Here's the issue w your projected model of the cannabis industry - Wal sucks and the world is far worse off because it exists. The world is less interesting and seems smaller. It has served to channel wealth to a very view upon the labor of very many. I agree with your assessment, but O differ with your indifference and complacency with such a bullshit outcome. With all due respect, the earlier dialogue discussing Republicans and Democrats is nonsense. There is no material difference between a rep and demo, that's why big lobbies spend the same on both sides of the aisle. I think J's earlier comment was that government is not monolithic. Maybe. But the establishment is diving the bus.

As someone stated earlier, the whole dialogue needs to be reframed. As long as we continue to discuss cannabis as a commodity, we push their agenda form. Profits, greed, control. I find it morally reprehensible and a direct attack against me that my government interferes with my ability to heal myself. That is insanity. Furthermore, how the hell is govt permitted o deny me from growing my own food or any plant that poses no threat to anyone. There is no legalization on the horizon. There are only cash generating schemes looming like a fat-assed Ronald McDonald. Are we incapable of keeping anything that is good for ourselves? Must everything be for sale? Why are we letting this happen?

Apathy for bullshit is just that. Sheep pushing their way to the cash register. Cannabis is mine and you can shove your patents and your excise taxes up your arse.

I really don't appreciate the personal attack, nor the "They're just as Bad!" schtick wrt politics. All one has to do to see the folly in that is to compare CO & WA cannabis law with someplace very, very Republican like our neighbor, OK. Or TX, LA, FL & AZ.

Or contemplate what Mitt said he'd do if any state tried to legalize vs what Obama has done.

You could consider the vote in the HOR to protect MMJ in states that have it. 170 Democrats and 49 Republicans supported it. 172 Republicans and 17 Democrats opposed it.

Given that the facts were available before you formed your opinion, I doubt you'll reconsider when they're shoved under your nose.

The whole rant about my complacency wrt legalization outcomes is much the same. It's not all about you, anyway, nor is it all about me, either, but about millions of other people as well. So long as legalization proceeds on a state by state basis, Walmart won't be taking over. And so long as states contemplating legalization allow for personal growing, the size of in-state retail MJ providers is immaterial to people who choose to grow their own. The current proposal in OR has that & is very likely to pass. It keeps everybody honest.

I doubt that your spiel about water culture is any more valid considering that some of the world's finest cannabis is grown outdoors in the dirt in places like Malawi, Thailand & others.

 

[budtang]

One who believes that a commercial business cant produce top shelf is either ignorant or retarded.

Every time I've challenged one of you guys to prove this with a link to a large commercial operation that produces top shelf you guys always link me to a mid-grade factory. Can at least one of you prove what you're talking about? I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying the current nature of large scale commercial weed production ( humorously enough is pretty fucking tiny when compared to what corporations would do) is nothing more than commercialized mid-grade production. I just don't see how you can claim that these big operations can produce top shelf when they currently aren't and how you can say that an even bigger corporate commercial operation will produce top shelf when these smaller large scale operations currently aren't. You guys just don't have any examples to back up what you're talking about. Either that, or we're going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes top shelf. I think I have stricter standards than most of you, but that's because I smoke the best weed in the world on a daily basis and most of you don't. The majority of weed on the market is mid-grade and the majority of grow operations are larger commercial operations. I'm seeing a correlation here.

 

[ElusiveQuark]

Hey Jnhnn- I am not attacking you. That was not my intent. My opinions were formed previous to any notions of the current proposals. All on my own, without any legislative backing, I concluded that cannabis is a gift to be enjoyed and not exploited. I am aware of the vote count you mention. My point is that there is a myriad of other approaches. These politicians as a group are uninspired and fail to think outside of the box they have been provided. Given the entirety of humanity on the political spectrum, dems and reps, reside right next to each other.
My mention of growing weed underwater was meant in jest. I don't believe it's possible. Please respect my right as a human being to cultivate that which I can to maintain my well being. I take offense when someone tries to prevent that through rules and regs. And this is personal. CO is ahead of most if not all the other states in correcting the condition. However, the idea that govt is involved at all indicates a flawed premise. I voted for Obama, but he has been a bitter disappointment and under his watch there have been more people imprisoned for cannabis related crimes than that of any other President. Isn't that the most important issue?
Wal Mart does suck!

 

[LSWM]

I find it morally reprehensible and a direct attack against me that my government interferes with my ability to heal myself. That is insanity. Furthermore, how the hell is govt permitted o deny me from growing my own food or any plant that poses no threat to anyone. There is no legalization on the horizon. There are only cash generating schemes looming like a fat-assed Ronald McDonald. Are we incapable of keeping anything that is good for ourselves? Must everything be for sale? Why are we letting this happen?

Apathy for bullshit is just that. Sheep pushing their way to the cash register. Cannabis is mine and you can shove your patents and your excise taxes up your arse.

 

[LyryC]

Originally Posted by ElusiveQuark View Post
I find it morally reprehensible and a direct attack against me that my government interferes with my ability to heal myself. That is insanity. Furthermore, how the hell is govt permitted o deny me from growing my own food or any plant that poses no threat to anyone. There is no legalization on the horizon. There are only cash generating schemes looming like a fat-assed Ronald McDonald. Are we incapable of keeping anything that is good for ourselves? Must everything be for sale? Why are we letting this happen?

Apathy for bullshit is just that. Sheep pushing their way to the cash register. Cannabis is mine and you can shove your patents and your excise taxes up your arse.

 

[budtang]

Wal Mart does suck!

I'll be in Bentonville next weekend eating dinner with the man (my uncle) who invented the Wal Mart Supercenter. I'll be sure and pass that message along. It's funny, because all these people in my family know I hate WalMart, too. You know you've done something wrong as a corporation when your own family members openly hate it. If I wanted I could sing a different tune and get a high level job at Walmart corporate right now. lulzgl

 

[ColoradoOG]

Every time I've challenged one of you guys to prove this with a link to a large commercial operation that produces top shelf you guys always link me to a mid-grade factory. Can at least one of you prove what you're talking about? I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying the current nature of large scale commercial weed production ( humorously enough is pretty fucking tiny when compared to what corporations would do) is nothing more than commercialized mid-grade production. I just don't see how you can claim that these big operations can produce top shelf when they currently aren't and how you can say that an even bigger corporate commercial operation will produce top shelf when these smaller large scale operations currently aren't. You guys just don't have any examples to back up what you're talking about. Either that, or we're going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes top shelf. I think I have stricter standards than most of you, but that's because I smoke the best weed in the world on a daily basis and most of you don't. The majority of weed on the market is mid-grade and the majority of grow operations are larger commercial operations. I'm seeing a correlation here.

Well why I do agree with you that the majority like 99% absolutely suck(couldn't pay me to smoke it let alone have me pay for it) I stop short of saying it cant be done. I have a 500 1000w flower room that's legit hitting the market at the end of this month being ran by me personally and one other person. I'm not going to brag or anything like that as my product simply speaks for itself. The tides are changing and you will see the light. I know several others in various other states getting their cards lined up and I project over the next 5 years you will see things change. Its a new market with a ton of people with cash that don't understand how to do this but its only a matter of time before highly experienced guys get their ducks lined up. There is no if it is only when.

PS asking for pictures doesn't show you anything so I don't see any reason to post that..What information you seek can only be shown by the product and the product only. Again I say time, only time will tell my friend.

Cheers
COG

 

[bentom187]

Damn right.

Please respect my right as a human being to cultivate that which I can to maintain my well being. I take offense when someone tries to prevent that through rules and regs.

Please respect my right as a human being to cultivate that which I can to maintain my well being. I take offense when someone tries to prevent that through rules and regs.

Please respect my right as a human being to cultivate that which I can to maintain my well being. I take offense when someone tries to prevent that through rules and regs.

 

[budtang]

Well why I do agree with you that the majority like 99% absolutely suck(couldn't pay me to smoke it let alone have me pay for it) I stop short of saying it cant be done. I have a 500 1000w flower room that's legit hitting the market at the end of this month being ran by me personally and one other person. I'm not going to brag or anything like that as my product simply speaks for itself. The tides are changing and you will see the light. I know several others in various other states getting their cards lined up and I project over the next 5 years you will see things change. Its a new market with a ton of people with cash that don't understand how to do this but its only a matter of time before highly experienced guys get their ducks lined up. There is no if it is only when.

You're not getting the point. Even IF these large operations can pull it off, there is no market for top shelf weed once they do. It doesn't matter if a lot of good growers can set up large operations. If large operations don't focus on producing mid-grade weed that 90% of the market wants, then they'll be forced to go out of business. I'm sure they can grow top shelf, but they'll go out of business if they do. People are going to choose the 15% THC strains over the 30% THC strains. It doesn't matter what the price is going to be. You can price the top shelf at the same price as the mid-grade and 90% people will still choose the mid-grade because it suits their potency needs. I think people will still buy the top shelf, but it won't only account for 10% of their smoking habits. They'll load of bowl of top shelf before they go to sleep at night, but they'll load bowls of the mid-grade throughout the day so they can function at work.

Large operations= mid-grade market 90%
Small operations= top shelf market 10%

I don't see multi-billion dollar corporations constructing a business plan to focus on profiting from only 10% of the market. They didn't become multi-billion dollar corporations by making poor business decisions like that. And, I'm not talking about 500 1,000wHPS operations like yours. Those are the big operations by today's standards. However, that's child's play compared to what is coming. When I see 500 light operations failing to produce true top shelf I don't see 5,000 light operations having anymore success.

PS asking for pictures doesn't show you anything

It shows you the quality of the weed. Top shelf has a certain look and mid-grade has a certain look. If you can't post pictures of top shelf produced by large operations then I'm going to have to assume that large operations who produce true top shelf cannabis simply don't exist. When the majority of grow operations these days are large and the majority of weed on the market is mid-grade weed it tells you something about the quality of the cannabis produced on a large scale.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think your assumptions are inaccurate, Budtang. At the same price, more potent weed is a better buy, allowing consumers to use less for the same result. Yeh, sure, there's a line between good value & easily regulated effect w/ daytime tokers learning how to do that w/ a given batch rather quickly. Very potent weed = smaller/fewer puffs. Party weed shouldn't be too potent, either, because it's easy to stupefy lighter tokers, kill the party, particularly w/ more narcotic kush varieties. When you light a joint & pass it off into the group, they don't know how strong it is until they feel the effect.

In the rest of your most recent comment, you make other unwarranted assumptions as well. You assume mono-cropping by large operations when it's entirely possible & likely that they will grow more than one variety to achieve market penetration at different levels. You also make the usual kush-lover attributes to appearance & effect as well. Sleep is impossible with some strains, and appearance is only a rough guide to potency. I have some Sensi Star that's absolutely gorgeous in every respect that's not particularly potent & I also have some Satori that's nothing to look at while being extremely potent. The interplay of various cannabinoids has a profound effect on perceived potency. There's no objective measure for that.

 

[LyryC]

Only broke kids cry about pricing

Only broke kids cry about pricing

If you really UNDERSTOOD the reason to vote NO.

You wouldn't even need to post in this thread.

Voting no keeps the scumbag corporations hands off weed.

It Keeps control in our hands - not government hands.

It makes sure places like Monsanto can't openly and publicly ruin the greatest thing on earth.

You vote no because You don't want a pack of fucking Maryboro's at the gas station on every block of some GMO shit.

You vote no because THE LAWS UNJUST AND WRONG LEGAL OR NOT! What the fuck is going to change except more laws and control if they are given power and the rights to use / control that power... Tomatoes don't have laws over them... The fuck is so different about weed?

Vote no so the plant and people who love it can stay that way.

You want 1$ grams flooding the world... have fun... just don't cry when theres no sensimilia because its some patented GMO shit

You vote no because this is one of the last things we can hold dear and claim to ourselves and isn't tainted or created by the NWO.

 

[hush]

There is a serious disconnect from reality going on in this thread. I'm not judging anyone, either. I'm just saying, there's a bunch of circular logic in here.


A lot of great points are being made, on both sides of the issue. But one thing needs to be reiterated every so often, and I will do it now. Regardless of how you think about the issue, voting NO on legalization measures of any kind is the same thing as voting YES on sending marijuana users to jail. People like to over-complicate things and throw down sub clauses and so forth, which is what it is, but it's important to point out the one, unambiguous truth from time to time.

That is all.

 

[bentom187]

Not quite

If we "legalize it" there is a line between illegal and legal weed established. People will still go to jail for doing the same thing the legal growers are doing. Its discrimination in the most obvious sense. Its also controlling the market.

I think we should all stick together on this issue and just overgrow the world ,nullify the laws in court and vote for people who wont enforce those laws and or introduce legislation repealing laws against it.

 

[hush]

If we "legalize it" there is a line between illegal and legal weed established. People will still go to jail for doing the same thing the legal growers are doing.

But... you are aware that the ones who CONSUME the weed you are conspiring to keep illegal will immediately stop being sent to jail, right? I know it means that some growers will continue to go to jail, but that's just how capitalism works. Just like you can't start up a corn farm without paying tons of money in taxes and permits, you won't be able to with weed either. Just like you can't even be a karaoke DJ without paying for a blanket license. Just like you can't open a pharmacy without being a pharmacist. This is just how things work in our "civilized society."

I honestly just don't get what it is that some people THINK they are going to be able to accomplish in terms of "legalization." It's dizzying.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is a serious disconnect from reality going on in this thread. I'm not judging anyone, either. I'm just saying, there's a bunch of circular logic in here.


A lot of great points are being made, on both sides of the issue. But one thing needs to be reiterated every so often, and I will do it now. Regardless of how you think about the issue, voting NO on legalization measures of any kind is the same thing as voting YES on sending marijuana users to jail. People like to over-complicate things and throw down sub clauses and so forth, which is what it is, but it's important to point out the one, unambiguous truth from time to time.

That is all.

Indeed. It's not just about me, but rather about millions of other people who'd probably be entirely pleased at the prospect of buying weed like beer or cigarettes w/ no risk of jail or fines in the process. I think that the legal right to grow one's own, even in limited quantities, overrides concerns about multinational business & gmo weed. I grow what I want, the same way I grow vegetables from seed, heirloom varieties among them.

Outright legalization at the national level would likely reduce the price of seeds enormously.

 

[bentom187]

But... you are aware that the ones who CONSUME the weed you are conspiring to keep illegal will immediately stop being sent to jail, right? I know it means that some growers will continue to go to jail, but that's just how capitalism works. Just like you can't start up a corn farm without paying tons of money in taxes and permits, you won't be able to with weed either. Just like you can't even be a karaoke DJ without paying for a blanket license. Just like you can't open a pharmacy without being a pharmacist. This is just how things work in our "civilized society."

I honestly just don't get what it is that some people THINK they are going to be able to accomplish in terms of "legalization." It's dizzying.

Umm no. That's how organized crime works. Which is confusing at first but once you realize that's all government imposed rule and restrictions, you realize they are just criminals contributing nothing to society.

Free market capitalism if free of constraints and is based on voluntary interaction. Where you provide the best service or product for the cheapest cost. If you don't provide those things you become poor and must try something else. No bail outs. No limited liability or corporate personhood. It also does not exclude charity at all for the poor.

 

[bentom187]

Indeed. It's not just about me, but rather about millions of other people who'd probably be entirely pleased at the prospect of buying weed like beer or cigarettes w/ no risk of jail or fines in the process. I think that the legal right to grow one's own, even in limited quantities, overrides concerns about multinational business & gmo weed. I grow what I want, the same way I grow vegetables from seed, heirloom varieties among them.

Outright legalization at the national level would likely reduce the price of seeds enormously.

As long as you are not trying to sell them. Then you are putting yourself at risk.



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Jhhnn Rights are not given they are inherent. Legal rights are just privileges you get for paying a protection fee to an extortionist. You pay and nothing bad happens to you. If you prefer having all your rights turned into privileges that's your choice. But I don't think anyone has the right to make that choice for others. Which voting for such privileges is in practice the same exact thing.

 

[hush]

Bentom, can you please give me an example of a market or an industry that fits this definition of yours? For free market capitalism?