need investments in large scale fish culture to take pressure off of wild stocks. if farmed stuff won't work, "let them eat cake"...
no sense killing the goose, you know.
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top of the heap to third world status in one generation
- Thread starter Gry
- Start date
no sense killing the goose, you know.
moose eater
Well-known member
Haven't followed the micro-specifics of the crab industry here since the early 1980s.
I worked a variety of crab (dungeness,snow/tanner, and king) off and on from 1978 until 1980),and between 1978 and 1981 an average LARGE king crab went from about 18-21-lbs., to ~11 lbs. during that period.
The price boats got at the dock during that time often stayed near $1.25/lb. (with minor, temporary fluctuation to get the crabbers' interest)_ but with loads coming in sometimes in the neighborhood of 250,000 lbs. (one mother ship and a couple smaller partner ships, w/ one night's experience that stands out in my memory, as we worked a 29-hour shift on that one), that was HUGE money in 1978 dollars; $10,000 crew shares for one load on those boats that night.
Many of the major crabbers in Kodiak, Dutch Harbor, and Homer back then often had new houses, new cars/trucks, pockets full of very clean cocaine, etc. For them, money flowed big time, more often than not..
Greed, in my opinion, over-fishing as a result, was directly related to the reduction in average size during that stint.
HOWEVER, the Berring Sea has been a dumping ground for US, Soviet, and other military ships and wastes, with who knows what onboard.
Add to that the increased temps in the oceans, the changing ph, and contaminants from other sources, and I don't know, but can guess the additional stressors haven't helped.
Kids don't typically turn down candy, and humans, in general, tend ot be greedy. None of it good for preservation of what -should- or -could- be renewable resources.
We're often paying near $25/lb for king crab here now, and factory (salt) brined, flash-frozen crab is far less appealing than fresh boiled/steamed crab that never saw a factory, so we rarely eat the stuff anymore.
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Obviously turning molehills into mountains is a sport. Conspiracies into “play”. Life is actually pretty simple. Simple explanations. The “news” follows the trends. Some would prefer a cover up. Much more exciting. Carry on.
moose eater
Well-known member
And minimizing things you have no real understanding of, in order to preserve your sense of what ever balance in your mind you perceive as necessary, has made you into an all-knowing arbitor of what is and isn't..
Again, too much vinegar in your water?
You're often too petty and bitter. And it shows.
Have you heard of a bluehouse? Similar to a greenhouse but for fish.need investments in large scale fish culture to take pressure off of wild stocks. if farmed stuff won't work, "let them eat cake"...
Natural salmon from Florida - Bluehouse Salmon
In Bluehouse Salmon we create the perfect environment for our fish to let them live their best life. Try natural salmon raised in Florida.
bluehousesalmon.com
moose eater
Well-known member
So far my experiences with farmed fishing (mostly shrimp from overseas) is critical of habitat.need investments in large scale fish culture to take pressure off of wild stocks. if farmed stuff won't work, "let them eat cake"...
I can't recall specific location, but I understood there was a somewhat unique place near Thailand/South China Sea that had sufficient tidal movement through the 'farms' to deal with the waste issues involved. Other places not so much.
Up North we have oyster farms, & there have been a number of them, mostly a ways from the immediate shoreline, so better tidal movement through the 'farm'; from the Kachemak Bay area, down through SE Panhandle, and they've sometimes done well. (*I used to buy boxes of them out of Coffman Cove on Prince of Wales Island in 1989/1990, when weather prevented their timely float plane transport to spendy restaurants. I'd pay the owner $5/box; made deer hunting noisy but fulfilling, absent any deer. Guess if I'd waited long enough, it could have fairly easily transitioned to black bear hunting, due to the smell of the oysters.
)My understanding from talking with one fellow up further north was that they typically had to buy splats in the colder water areas, as our temps didn't permit for natural breeding of them. So some had that added cost.
Now it seems there's concerns with increased red tides, linked to (again) ph and temp of water, and the changes also allowing for bacteria, etc. that once didn't live in these waters, so now there's other potential complications.. (Used to be any month with an 'R' in it was safe to eat shellfish, but not any more. And that can be a wicked way to go).
Wild-caught salmon (and its proponents) here has regularly been pitted against what is regarded as substandard Atlantic farmed salmon. Long-time effort here to avoid actual farmed fish (merely competing commercial interests,or ???), but we have hatcheries releasing salmon.
I think it was Green Squall who mentioned a protein structure issue with farmed tilapia, too, and maybe he changed his opinion with new information (I recall something like that).
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Day of Infamy
got a few high schools here running aquaculture on campus, raising fish, veggies, etc under roof. been thinking about it myself on a small scale. some folks also raise rabbits (and bobwhites) for meat, with their radiant body heat helping warm the structure.Have you heard of a bluehouse? Similar to a greenhouse but for fish.
Natural salmon from Florida - Bluehouse Salmon
In Bluehouse Salmon we create the perfect environment for our fish to let them live their best life. Try natural salmon raised in Florida.
moose eater
Well-known member
If that was re. the farmed salmon, versus wild-caught salmon, the battle between the 2 up here has been one which has seen ad money spent of decent amounts.
The market here is for wild-caught, and whether they have evidence of farmed East Coast salmon being sub-standard beyond oil content, I don't know. They certainly have a local political and economic investment on behalf of the fishermen.
I can personally attest to the silver salmon in Valdez that are released from the hatchery that's located right on the Bay, on the salt water, near the Trans-Alaska Pipeline oil terminal as being a more grainy fish, though those are the only silvers I typically have any contact with in the past, so little to compare them to on an apples-to-apples basis, and different species of salmon produce different products.
Comparing the sockeye from the Kenai River to that of the Copper River, where the Copper River fish are typically travelling much further upstream, therefore carrying a lot more oil/fat than the Kenai River sockeye, thus packing more omega 3's, etc.
I did that experiment for a former friend who lived near the Kenai River, whom I'd known since 1980, with whom my older son and I would dip-net sockeye and king salmon from the Kenai, who was not a believer when I told him of my own observations, with the Copper River fish taklnig a bit longer in the smoker, mostly as a result of the oil content in them.
I asked him to hold a piece of longer-smoked Copper River fish in one hand, and a piece of the smoked Kenai River fish (lesser time in the walk-in smoker) in the other hand, at the same time (couple of minutes for both hands) and when I removed them from his hands, the Copper River fish left a substantially greater amount of oil in his hand.
As far as protein structure, etc., beyond greater oil content, (salmon packing sufficient oil and fat for migration during spawning, typically relative to how far they're going) I can't speak to that.
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i "think" he was referring to it being December 7th...
moose eater
Well-known member
Wasn't sure, which was why I included the 'if' at the beginning.
My uncertainty re. buzz's comment helped me to share the additional info./observations that differentiates coastal-produced farmed fish and wild caught fish, versus wild-caught fish that's traveling up the river a long ways.
Also, to add another curve ball to the equation, I believe the Gulkana Hatchery produces fish relatively far from the Pacific Ocean, but I'd have to look into what species are produced there. If they are producing salmon smolts/fry, then, in theory, those fish woulld also carry a greater amount of fat, if they're swimming up stream, rather than being released closer to the ocean.
One reason why Yukon River fish, before the current and recent past decimation, were regarded as the best of the best. Many of those fish were/are often going over a thousand miles up stream. They pack some serious fat on their king salmon and chum salmon in that River.
In the case of the Yukon River fish, they also involve yet another International agreement that the US has failed to keep.
When I was over there this last August, and my daughter left a collection of fish there for friends/surrogate family of mine, and extra for my own household, beyond what she'd handed off to me in Tok Jct. for the freezers, etc., at that time, there had been literally 12 king salmon to have crossed through the sonar counter at the Whitehorse Yukon fish ladder. And for years, before our runs in that River were as dismal as they have been in recent years, the Canadians came up short for what they were supposed to receive by agreement/treaty.
I'd noted to my friends that my daughter had left with them (in wild-caught Cook Inlet king salmon, not counting the silvers, halibut, rock fish, etc.) approximately 10% of the Yukon's total count for king salmon that had made it to Whitehorse, and they didn't have to swim at all. However, they were, indeed, the lesser-regarded or desired Cook Inlet king salmon... delivered via petrol in an automobile.
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That was my reference. Long time ago is not that long ago.
moose eater
Well-known member
Per Google, and our State Dept of Fish & Game, The Gulkana Fish Hatchery indeed produces sockeye salmon, released into that River (Gulkana; Federally deemed a Wild & Scenic River, btw, with those protections) so those hatchery salmon would be longer-distance spawners with greater oil content.
Figured I ought to know that anyway, so I checked.
Figured I ought to know that anyway, so I checked.
The salmon from the bluehouse system are being sold in Publix grocery stores. Some of the folks on local Florida fishing forums have tried them and have had good things to say about them. The most common remark has been the firmness of the filets.
I had Scottish salmon for lunch today in Thomasville. I chose grilled with a bourbon sauce with collard greens and red cabbage slaw. The slaw was delicious with a delicate dressing loaded with flavor- slightly sweet with a hint of vinegar.
moose eater
Well-known member
when I oven roast/bake,or grill salmon in foil, I lay the skin side down, do a shallow scoring of cross-hatch marks in the meat, and whip up a slurry of minced garlic (a good amount), minced fresh ginger (also in good amount, a bit of soy sauce, a bit of maple syrup, and sometimes just a micro-drizzle of lemon juice, with maybe a tiny amountof olive oil in the slurry.
Place just enough organic virgin coconut oil or avocado oil under the skin to keep it from sticking to the foil before it's heated up enough to provide its own juices.
Baste the slurry liberally (Uh-oh!! Did I just us the 'L' word??!!! :^ I ) over the meat side of the fish with the hatch marks, which remains on the up-side of the fillet when in the foil, and bake for about 30-35 " at ~375 f., or until the meat is barely past showing any translucense; all the meat in the middle is solid color of gently finished meat, but not overdone or dry. (But you already know that part).
That's one of our favorite salmon recipes.
The firmer meat in 'short-distance' salmon is often due to the reduced fats/oils. Not always, but often.
moose eater
Well-known member
I think a near miss might be pretty fugly.
I'd like to see fewer truly devastating weapons in Johnny Law's hands. He already causes a LOT of carnage with the stuff he's got.
But that thing truly looks FORMIDABLE. I'd hate to irritate someone with poor self-control who was holding one.
Or, rocket blades at 20 paces.. Would bring a whole new level of carnage to the old fashioned duels. Bystanders would need serious layers of protection, or CCTV.
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There's a Hellfire version that was used on Zawahiri as he stood on a balcony.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/YDWNET5EDZMVPHGTSRDSRTW5KU.jpg)
Little-known modified Hellfire missiles likely killed al Qaeda's Zawahiri
Two Hellfire missiles fired from a drone killed the leader of al Qaeda, causing surprisingly little damage beyond the target, suggesting they may be a version of the missile shrouded in secrecy and used by the United States to avoid non-combatant casualties.
www.reuters.com
