Tom Hill Haze

[windmills]

If you believe there is Indica being grown en masse in Colombia, or ever was, you are smoking something much stronger than cannabis, and should quit. Very obviously, you have never been to, or spent any time there. At all. As a reminder, below is a post that discusses the extremely brief history of Indica in South America, in 1980, in Argentina only, to be exact. No where near Santa Marta, or for that matter, anywhere else in Colombia. Having lived and visited Colombia yearly for about 50 years, you could not be any more mistaken and clueless in your observations than you are regarding factual knowledge of cannabis growing there. And, you will find on the joke Phylos, whatever it is that you, or the next person seeks. There is no authentication, or double blind check, on anything they have done. Cheers

The first indica in South America in modern times is a strain called Epuyén which was grown at Lake Epuyén area which is a microclimate
Seeds were brought by french sky instructors around 1980. It made a revolution locally because it was the first time they could finnish a plant properly in that area. Until then what the hippies grew were paraguayan and colombian sativas which never flowered. So they were smoking a couple of pistils, the leaves and making tea with the roots
This Epuyén strain is a short plant of about 0,90 cms-1 mt tall. It is held very tight and not shared by the family
Pictures from that time are all gone, burnt because it was a very difficult time of extreme right fascist dictatorships supported by Usa in the area and people got killed and vannished for growing a plant
Thanks for posting your hash links, very interesting and enlighting

windmills​

Very interesting article, and thanks that you brought this up. When I was a growing up and living in an embassy through my teens in Bogota, we never heard of, or saw, any Cannabis Indica plants or strains. It was all Cannabis Sativa. I first saw and heard of Indica upon arriving back in the EU, when I was exposed to hashish, and much later on, to Afghanistan Indica plants and hybrids. The article states that the very first Cannabis Indica, in all of South America, arrived in Epuy'en, Argentina, in 1980, which is in the far southern part near the Pacific Coast. Far closer to Antartica, than the Carribean, where the High Times article on this thread states it was being grown. This confirms that there was no Indica in Colombia during 1980, or before. And it states it did not last long there either. And, the plants were 1 meter, about 3 feet tall. Hardly a size you would want for a commercial cannabis enterprise. Cheers

 

[Chi13]

it's useless to discuss the leaf topic further...
you don't get it.
those colombians are hybrids... many asian's too...
if you trust science and not what others had said or what you think is true...
phylos.bio ... there you can see it all...
Colombian Santa Marta for example is mostly a indica ;-) ohh man how possible?
so... there must be indica's in colombia long time ago...
but hey... it's just my observation and until now it's true.... proof is here: phylos.bio
you can also belief that Santa Clause is real ;-)
same goes to many asia strains old and new...
ask Angus RSC who was often there (in Asia) ... ask Dubi etc...
but hey each it's own ;-)

M.

I think you're putting too much faith in phylos. It's only as good as the few individual samples that were sent in. It doesn't seem accessible anymore but from memory it was just based on samples sent in. Some of those would be accurate, others not. Unless you have say hundreds of samples of Santa Marta it tells you virtually nothing.
I don't think anyone is saying leaf width isn't an indication of sativa or not, but there is certainly variety in width of leaves within regions and within populations. Having wider than pencil thin leaves does not necessarily mean that something is not sativa, or has been hybridised. Some pure sativa's start with wider leaves but by the end it's obvious what they are.

 

[Brother Nature]

It's been interesting observing these old school sativa threads, they seem to get more heated than some of the political threads. One thing that seems to stand out (and I do not mean for this to come across as offensive or mean) is that the people obsessed with the semantics of Haze/Thai/etc.. all seem to sit a little on the spectrum. Perhaps there is something in these long flowering Sativa's that either exacerbates this tendency, or something that quells it in these specefic peoples minds, hence the obsessive like nature. Again, I hope that doesn't come across mean, but these Sativa threads seem to have the most unique type of bickering, disagreements, and infighting that you see here on icmag. I find it fascinating and it definitely adds to the mystique of the strains. Anyways, I'll get back to smoking my hybrids and pondering....

 

[El Unico Frijol]

P = G x E / E

 

[MadMac]

M.

 

[funkyhorse]

If you believe there is Indica being grown en masse in Colombia, or ever was, you are smoking something much stronger than cannabis, and should quit. Very obviously, you have never been to, or spent any time there. At all. As a reminder, below is a post that discusses the extremely brief history of Indica in South America, in 1980, in Argentina only, to be exact. No where near Santa Marta, or for that matter, anywhere else in Colombia. Having lived and visited Colombia yearly for about 50 years, you could not be any more mistaken and clueless in your observations than you are regarding factual knowledge of cannabis growing there. And, you will find on the joke Phylos, whatever it is that you, or the next person seeks. There is no authentication, or double blind check, on anything they have done. Cheers

windmills​

Very interesting article, and thanks that you brought this up. When I was a growing up and living in an embassy through my teens in Bogota, we never heard of, or saw, any Cannabis Indica plants or strains. It was all Cannabis Sativa. I first saw and heard of Indica upon arriving back in the EU, when I was exposed to hashish, and much later on, to Afghanistan Indica plants and hybrids. The article states that the very first Cannabis Indica, in all of South America, arrived in Epuy'en, Argentina, in 1980, which is in the far southern part near the Pacific Coast. Far closer to Antartica, than the Carribean, where the High Times article on this thread states it was being grown. This confirms that there was no Indica in Colombia during 1980, or before. And it states it did not last long there either. And, the plants were 1 meter, about 3 feet tall. Hardly a size you would want for a commercial cannabis enterprise. Cheers

This is not an article. This is what I am writing from my own experience visiting, and having time together with some of the old hippies from that time. There are no records, no picutres left, it was all burnt because it was a military dictotorship supported by Usa killing its own citizens and growing weed or anything related to that was and still is a terrible crime
I never been in Colombia. I can say that in the southern part of South America, the colombian weed called Punto Rojo is legendary. It was a very thin leaf pure sativa with trippy 3 toke 4 hour high, synesthesia weed
I cannot say shit about if there was indicas or not in Colombia, I have no clue
If there was, it never made it to the southern part of the continent.
Epuyén is no less legendary than Punto Rojo at the southern part of the world.
As with any other legend, bullshitting is rampant.

Epuyen is from this area, it is a microclimate

Comarca andina del Paralelo 42 - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

es.wikipedia.org

This article from THC magazine is telling us now that Epuyen is some mint shit grown at some lab? In Epuyen lab? in the 80s? WTF? I have been in Epuyen in the 80s man, please

El Bolsón: ya se quemaron 3 mil hectáreas y se suman a las 10 mil que se perdieron en enero

Se suma otro desastre en la Patagonia: al cierre de esta nota llegaban a más de 3000 las hectáreas afectadas en El Bolsón y zonas aledañas.

revistathc.com

Tierra cannábica

La zona de El Bolsón es clave en la historia cannábica argentina. A principios de los 70, contaba con 2.500 habitantes conectados por caminos de tierra a las ciudades de Bariloche y Esquel.

Por entonces empezó a desarrollarse el aspecto turístico de la región, proponiendo a la ciudad como “una ciudad jardín” y al mismo tiempo impulsando los negocios inmobiliarios, turísticos y madereros, al permitir la explotación y el reemplazo del bosque nativo.

Cuenta la historia que en 1971 se inició la primera “comunidad hippie” en la zona, formada por los participantes de la obra teatral musical Hair, una adaptación de la controvertida obra estadounidense.

Aunque aquella comuna no prosperó, en breve se sumaron muchos jóvenes más, que convirtieron la zona en un paraíso para quienes buscaban un contacto con la naturaleza más asiduo y sobrevivían del trueque, la producción de artesanías o la explotación agrícola como pequeños productores.

Como sucedió en otros parajes del mundo frecuentados por hippies y exiliados, donde los caminos se hacen difíciles y el monte oculta las plantas, el cultivo de marihuana se volvió tradición en poco tiempo.

Con variedades legendarias como “Epuyén”, cultivada cerca de la localidad homónima y según que versión de la historia se encuentre, una descendiente de Índicas californianas o una variedad norteamericana cruzada con Sativas paraguayas.

Tan famosa es la “Epuyén” que han circulado partes policiales del secuestro de marihuana “adulterada” para que tenga sabor o aroma a menta.

--------- Si va a utilizar este texto cite la fuente: revistathc.com ---------

Hola sweet emotion! I´m from Argentina too. Nice to see some mythic epuyén growing. Yesterday i cut a few ladies from El Bolsón , i recognize that didn´t trusted those seeds at first... but they made beautiful fruity and resinous buds! Waiting to dry and cure now !

Que tal chabon como andas! Espero que lo tuyo todo bien
Parece que la historia que circula es muy distinta de lo que fueron mis encuentros y charlas con gente de los 70s/80s que vieron ese proceso
Que nos podes contar de la Epuyen? Aca en el icmag la gente no tiene ni la mas puta idea de la Epuyen, es impactante y muy chocante la diferencia de criterios con europeos y americanos
Te gustó lo que cultivaste?
Tenes de casualidad alguna sativa pura que no este degradada por haber sido hecha o reproducida bajo luz artificial en fotoperiodos artificiales?
Como te fue con las paraguayas que cultivaste? Las hiciste en exteriores?
Un abrazo y que estes bien

it's useless to discuss the leaf topic further...
you don't get it.
those colombians are hybrids... many asian's too...
if you trust science and not what others had said or what you think is true...
phylos.bio ... there you can see it all...
Colombian Santa Marta for example is mostly a indica ;-) ohh man how possible?
so... there must be indica's in colombia long time ago...
but hey... it's just my observation and until now it's true.... proof is here: phylos.bio
you can also belief that Santa Clause is real ;-)
same goes to many asia strains old and new...
ask Angus RSC who was often there (in Asia) ... ask Dubi etc...
but hey each it's own ;-)

M.

What colombians are you referring to? The shit collected and distributed by european/american seedbanks in the 2000's? If you refer to that I agree. The seeds that grew from the 80s Punto Rojo brick at the southern part of the world where they were arriving were not hybrids
The problem with that Santa Marta thing is the origin of those seeds, the bigger problem is everybody knows and they all seem to be convinced that crap is a sativa or maybe for commercial reasons, I dont know
If you can grow it indoors and make it productive, forget it, it is not a pure sativa. Pure sativas cant be grown under artificial lights because it brings the inbreeding depression galore I am seeing with buds size matching seedsman haze in all of the artifial light bred sativas

You should listen to Wally, he knows what he talks about. This guy when he talks about sativas is standing on an auditorium giving a lecture
Others talk standing on a pedestal and pedestals are only for totems and must be demolished
proper sativas must be bred 100% outdoors under natural lights preferably in the tropics but you can extend that limit a little bit but not too much. Europe is out of sativa range. You can grow wherever you want, indoors outdoors under lights in Europe, Alaska or the Moon
But breeding, no man, breeding of pure sativas is possible only under natural lights with natural photoperiods or otherwise you get the inbreeding depression galore you get with this shit

The new shit coming from Angus I grew is sad, all hybrid, nothing pure
This is called here to sell smoke, verkaufen Rauch, others call it snake oil sellers
Angus verkaufen rauch, does it make sense in german?

 

[Hammerhead]

Ive seen both types of leaves in Sativa gentics... IMO all cannabis is a hybrid. Even the plants back in the 70s were hybrids. That's what we always grew and breed with..

Most experts agree that the genus Cannabis is comprised of one highly varied species, C. sativa.

C. afghanica grows up to 1.83 (6 ft.) tall. The leaves are broad, short, and have well-defined veins in them; the leaflets and leaves are both dark green. The plants in maturity have white follicles of hair around them, giving the plant a very striking appearance. The branches are very dense with short internodes and long petioles.


Cannabis Afghanica

Many growers and breeders do not distinguish Afghanica from Indica, filtering them both into the Indica category. The Afghanica subspecies of cannabis originated near present-day Afghanistan. This small plant rarely reaches 180 cm, with dark-green leaves and broad leaflets that are distinctive to the species.
The branches are dense while individual internodes tend to be long due to their petioles which can reach up at least half a foot more than average plants of this type. The most common examples of pure Afghanica include the many different hash plants and Afghani strains.

IMO I think Deep Chunk falls into this category,, These types of genetics were RARE in the 70s.

 

[sublingual]

"Sativa Passion" is what I call it. "R" wrote about it in High Times in the early 80's: "Ban the Bud."
For the folks growing up on sativas, the introduction of indicas was anti-climatic. Sure they were powerful but heavy, sort of immobilizing. Sativa is not immobilizing. The character, aromas, effect, combine for satisfying experience.
There are downsides too of sativas. The longer a plant takes to finish, the more things can go wrong. The selection and improvement cycle is way slowed down compared to indicas.

 

[Raco]

DC male and Colombian Red x Gold female,both from seed

 

[pinkus]

It's been interesting observing these old school sativa threads, they seem to get more heated than some of the political threads. One thing that seems to stand out (and I do not mean for this to come across as offensive or mean) is that the people obsessed with the semantics of Haze/Thai/etc.. all seem to sit a little on the spectrum. Perhaps there is something in these long flowering Sativa's that either exacerbates this tendency, or something that quells it in these specefic peoples minds, hence the obsessive like nature. Again, I hope that doesn't come across mean, but these Sativa threads seem to have the most unique type of bickering, disagreements, and infighting that you see here on icmag. I find it fascinating and it definitely adds to the mystique of the strains. Anyways, I'll get back to smoking my hybrids and pondering....

I think it’s mostly that it’s old fucks that have ideas set in stone and trying to convert others to their point of view and young pups that believe the stories they WANT to believe instead of staying open to new information.

 

[Raco]

Monkey Haze f3 male...heavily serrated leaves

F3 female

 

[sublingual]

I think it’s mostly that it’s old fucks that have ideas set in stone and trying to convert others to their point of view and young pups that believe the stories they WANT to believe instead of staying open to new information.

Naw, the the old ones are still around and don't want the indicas, or most of them. There's new sativa converts all the time when they find the joys.

 

[Raco]

@windmills

According to Clarke:

"Around 1976,Afghani seeds and Afghan farmers to tend them were brought to the Llanos region of Colombia.Hashish was made from the Afghan variety by the hand-rubbed method through at least 1980"

 

[funkyhorse]

@windmills

According to Clarke:

"Around 1976,Afghani seeds and Afghan farmers to tend them were brought to the Llanos region of Colombia.Hashish was made from the Afghan variety by the hand-rubbed method through at least 1980"

Hola Raco
What is the source of RCC info?
Has he seen it himself?
There is no mention to the Llanos at that time
They are all talking about marihuana not hashish.

La ruta de la bonanza marimbera - Revista Bacánika

Este es un recorrido por la historia y las voces de los protagonistas de los años en que Colombia comenzó a exportar sustancias ilegales hacia el mundo.

www.bacanika.com

Bonanza Marimbera 1976-1985 | VerdadAbierta.com

El 16 de mayo de 1961 el Presidente John f. Kennedy anunció que el segundo proyecto de los Cuerpos de Paz (una iniciativa del gobierno de los Estados Unidos para contener el comunismo en países subdesarrollados) se llevaría acabo en Colombia. Por lo menos 64 voluntarios estuvieron a cargo de...

verdadabierta.com

Bonanza marimbera - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

es.wikipedia.org

 

[RobFromTX]

it's useless to discuss the leaf topic further...
you don't get it.
those colombians are hybrids... many asian's too...
if you trust science and not what others had said or what you think is true...
phylos.bio ... there you can see it all...
Colombian Santa Marta for example is mostly a indica ;-) ohh man how possible?
so... there must be indica's in colombia long time ago...
but hey... it's just my observation and until now it's true.... proof is here: phylos.bio
you can also belief that Santa Clause is real ;-)
same goes to many asia strains old and new...
ask Angus RSC who was often there (in Asia) ... ask Dubi etc...
but hey each it's own ;-)

M.

I wouldn't contact Angus and get him riled up about strain origins.

You might catch him on a bad day and he'll call you a shit weasel

 

[Dime]

Is there any chance leaf shape is a function of environmental factors such as light intensity ? Would subsequent generations adapt and over time change their leaf form?

 

[El Unico Frijol]

Arjan said if you take the same cultivar up the mountain the leaf morphology changes.

 

[Rgd]

I think it’s mostly that it’s old fucks that have ideas set in stone and trying to convert others to their point of view and young pups that believe the stories they WANT to believe instead of staying open to new information.

I am an old fk

Gimmie what i want in wld and i will turf my top anything

What the best sativas didn’t have was too much sedation

When indicas came around in 1978

I thought i has the gold and dumped my

Mex sativa that flowered at 45 n lat

Two years later i wanted it back

Wonder why ?

Same with colombian weed

First half of 70’s=rocket weed
After
That…why does my head feel foggy

Oh yeh..they changed the recipe

All the best

 

[goingrey]

Hola Raco
What is the source of RCC info?
Has he seen it himself?
There is no mention to the Llanos at that time
They are all talking about marihuana not hashish.

La ruta de la bonanza marimbera - Revista Bacánika

Este es un recorrido por la historia y las voces de los protagonistas de los años en que Colombia comenzó a exportar sustancias ilegales hacia el mundo.

www.bacanika.com

Bonanza Marimbera 1976-1985 | VerdadAbierta.com

El 16 de mayo de 1961 el Presidente John f. Kennedy anunció que el segundo proyecto de los Cuerpos de Paz (una iniciativa del gobierno de los Estados Unidos para contener el comunismo en países subdesarrollados) se llevaría acabo en Colombia. Por lo menos 64 voluntarios estuvieron a cargo de...

verdadabierta.com

Bonanza marimbera - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

es.wikipedia.org

No source is cited.

MINOR PRODUCTION AREAS

Hashish has been made in small amounts nearly everywhere that drug-Cannabis grows. Hashish occasionally appears from Africa, the Caribbean, Latin America, and parts of Asia where there are no traditions of hashish manufacture.

Small amounts of sieved hashish have been manufactured in Senegal in West Africa under the supervision of European hashish aficionados, but Senegalese hashish has never entered into the trade. Both hand-rubbed and sieved hashish are produced in small amounts in the Durban, Transkei, Lesotho, and Swaziland regions of South Africa. The Indian community has a long history in South Africa and it is likely that they make and consume most of the South African hashish.

Jamaica produces small amounts of hand-rubbed hashish as well as reconstituted imitation hashish made from powdered leaf and marijuana oil. In 1984, the Canadian Drug Enforcement Directorate estimated that 5 percent of the hashish, and 88 percent of the hashish oil seized in Canada originated in Jamaica (Stamler et al. 1985). Hashish was also produced in small amounts in Mexico and Colombia. Both these countries produced huge quantities of marijuana during the 1970s and 1980s and, quite naturally, a few of the smugglers would have attempted to make sieved hashish. The highest qualities were made from Michuacan and Oaxacan marijuana from Mexico.

During the 1970s, small balls of yellow, powdery hashish made from Mexican Cannabis occasionally would circulate amongst the Mexico-to-California marijuana smugglers. These pieces were much like Lebanese or Moroccan in color and texture. After large shipments of very dry marijuana were broken down into smaller parcels, the resin powder was swept up from the floor and sieved. The powder was placed in a piece of cloth and pressed by twisting the ends of the cloth, tightening and agglomerating the powder into a cohesive ball of hashish.

Around 1976, Afghani seeds and Afghan farmers to tend them were brought to the Llanos region of Colombia. Hashish was made from the Afghani variety by the hand-rubbed method through at least 1980. The resins were hand-rubbed rather than sieved by the traditional Afghan method because the Llanos region is too humid for sieving to work well. Apparently, some of the Colombian hashish was very good, but most Colombian hashish that reached North America was made from powdered marijuana mixed with marijuana oil. It was of very low quality.

In 1975, small amounts of hand-rubbed hashish, purportedly from South Korea, reached the United States (High Times, Vol. 6,1975).

In the preface he writes

My information comes from many sources: I consulted explorers, travelers, scientists, and followers of the Hippie Hashish Trail, which went from Tangiers and Ibiza to Istanbul through Iran to Afghanistan, and on to Goa, Delhi, and Katmandu.

My conclusions are based on historical accounts, counterculture books, and scientific journals, combined with extensive personal travels, interviews, and experiments. Given the illegality of hashish-related activities, some sources understandably hesitated to go on record. On occasion, readers are asked to accept certain information as fact without citation.

 

[sdd420]

Big Pharma was down in Columbia a hundred years ago or more