Tom Hill Haze

[@hempy]

I think some of the best photographic historical pictures of the types of cannabis many of us older growers saw grew and smoked comes from Mel Frank.

I have yet to see him post any hermaphrodite so i am a bit confused why a few of you think all old land race / heirloom variety's were hermaphrodites or prone to.

Chiba Colombian 1980.

Purple Mexican 1980

Cambodian 1979

Cambodian 1978

Imported Thai sticks (for those who've never seen them), San Francisco, 1978.

 

[Hammerhead]

It's not a few of us hempy.. You would be in the minority regarding the topic of herms in cannabis. Sam started with unstable genetics when making OH. I can't make you understand that. Seeds were common in cannabis 50 years ago.

 

[acespicoli]

I think some of the best photographic historical pictures of the types of cannabis many of us older growers saw grew and smoked comes from Mel Frank.

I have yet to see him post any hermaphrodite so i am a bit confused why a few of you think all old land race / heirloom variety's were hermaphrodites or prone to.

Chiba Colombian 1980.

Purple Mexican 1980

Cambodian 1979

Cambodian 1978
View attachment 18839269
View attachment 18839270

Imported Thai sticks (for those who've never seen them), San Francisco, 1978.
View attachment 18839271

Hermaphroditism can have 2 origins: genetic and environmental.
https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/marijuana-hermaphroditism/ (some sources)

Genetically, some marijuana strains are more sensitive to hermaphroditism than others. This can be explained by the genetic origins of the strain - Thai sativas, for example, usually reach a high percentage of hermaphrodite plants

I think that due to TH mentioning the RC use of the single thai plant it made the conversation some what revelant here until Tom returns and can can weigh in on his view point for this thread,

I also want to add thx for the nice historic pictures appreciate you doing that work
Its very well received, as many said orthodox is to cull all hermi... this is more for the unorthodox breeders
Its interesting how many elite cuts contain thai that hermi in so many icmag user grows

https://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Thailand_Sativa/Original_Strains/genealogy/

China Yunnan Regular - aceseeds

EXOTIC AND RESINOUS ASIAN VARIETY WITH PENETRATING AROMAS AND PLEASANT EFFECTS

www.aceseeds.org

This plant for instance has the largest genetic variables in any of the seed banks to be sequenced thus far
South asian closest to the divergent split of three types of cannabis

• Cambodian Child » Cambodian Mel Frank x Indigo Child Bx1

• Kambodga - Sativa Hybrids / Crossings​

  
  

  Selections / Direct Descendents​

  • Cambodia Mekong River Delta » Kambodga - Sativa Tonle sap
  • Mama Cambodia » Kambodga - Sativa
  • Orange Peako » Kambodga - Sativa
  
  

  Hybrids / Crossings (min. 1. Generation):​

  • Amnesia Haze » Amnesia x Kambodga - Sativa Probably
• All the chem lines you have to watch ?

 

[@hempy]

It's not a few of us hempy.. You would be in the minority regarding the topic of herms in cannabis. Sam started with unstable genetics when making OH. I can't make you understand that.

Sam never breed Haze Hammer or did he really know what haze was all he cared about was the quality of Haze.

I can post exactly what he posted saying just that if you like.

I can only comment on my experiences and they dont match yours Hammer.

They grew huge out door crops back then 10s of 1000s of plants missing males would not be that hard and we all know a little pollen pollinates a lot of plants.

 

[Nexus7]

Cambodian 1979

Cambodian 1978
View attachment 18839269
View attachment 18839270

Imported Thai sticks (for those who've never seen them), San Francisco, 1978.
View attachment 18839271

Is it just me or do those Cambodians have a similar flower structure to many THH phenos?

 

[@hempy]

Genetically, some marijuana strains are more sensitive to hermaphroditism than others. This can be explained by the genetic origins of the strain - Thai sativas, for example, usually reach a high percentage of hermaphrodite plants

I think that due to TH mentioning the RC use of the single thai plant it made the conversationsome what revelant here until Tom returns and can can weigh in on his view point for this thread,

I dont agree that Thais had a high % of hermaphrodites and i base that on growing Thais for over 40 years.

Mel Franks photos speak volumes i see quality old school sativas not hermaphrodites pictured growing.

I keep telling people some sativas can express 3 types of sex at the start of flower True Male/ True Female / Hermaphrodites and the only other person to agree with me was Kanga who also saw this in some pure sativas.

Thai sticks back ion the day were seedless and trust me if you saw a few seed it was like winning the lottery.

 

[@hempy]

THH is a Haze THIA so why are they not hermaphrodite prone ?

They have been open pollinated.

 

[acespicoli]

From a genetic point of view, some genetics are more susceptible to hermaphroditic traits than others. In example it is known that a high hermaphroditic strain is Thailand sativa.

Hermaphroditic strains - The weed nobody wants

Today we will talk about hermaphroditic strains, a disease many growers suffer, that is consequence of absurdities made by others. Unfortunately the word hermaphrodite is included in cannabis dictionary, as it happens more often than expected, throwing away efforts, money and specially time...

www.santyerbasi.com

Imma leave it at the last two citations on thai hermies plus take into considerations my respect for your observations, will say this if you cull the trait it should become extinct or atleast very recessive

Best >>>

 

[@hempy]

You can only try and clean a line of Hermaphrodites by using a true male and true female and by inbreeding and repeating this over and over.

So you need to have true males and true females to biggin with to even try to do that mate.

 

[Chi13]

Hi Chi no what i posted was this.

The Guy that found seed in the imported Thai stick in 1978 he found 3 seeds he was a horticulturist he germinated the seed and found 1 male 1 female and 1 hermaphrodite at sexing (like i keep saying not unusual for sativas ) he culled the hermaphrodite and made seed unseeing the remaining male and female.

He inbreed it 7 generations from 78.

Thanks, so out of those original Thai seeds 1/3 was a hermaphrodite. A small sample but others, myself included, have had similar experiences with either Thai or other landrace sativa's. You have bred from the ones that weren't hermie which is great, but that doesn't mean that hermies aren't prevalent in Thais. Also posing fields of Thai from the 70s doesn't really mean anything. The Thai farmers aren't idiots and no doubt culled full on hermies when they see them.

Nice photos from the past but I doubt he would be posting pictures of hermaphrodites as they aren't as photogenic.

 

[acespicoli]

You can only try and clean a line of Hermaphrodites by using a true male and true female and by inbreeding and repeating this over and over.

So you need to have true males and true females to biggin with to even try to do that mate.

I really didnt get into the 5% keepers or diploid or triploid chromosones here but its defintely food for thought for a future thread and the extreme possible cannabanoid increases that are possible. Secondary metabolites beside cbd and thc that add to the effet of the high in psychoactive cannabis.
Real question is...
Why is it rare to find a keeper in a op run ?
Or be able to ibl the ripper potency trait?

 

[acespicoli]

You can only try and clean a line of Hermaphrodites by using a true male and true female and by inbreeding and repeating this over and over.

So you need to have true males and true females to biggin with to even try to do that mate.

I love you buddy Im a dreamer thats what I do along with trying to be a realist.

Im going to email RC and ask him about the Thai selection ?

 

[Nexus7]

Or be able to ibl the ripper potency trait?

Quantitative Trait Loci (QTL)

Why is it so difficult to determine the genes that cause Autism or many other inherited disease conditions? Or breed a fast racehorse?

Not many things in nature are so simple!

Beyond the comprehension of man ...

Get out your AI super-computers peeps if you want to breed the 5% ers 100% of the time.

 

[@hempy]

Thanks, so out of those original Thai seeds 1/3 was a hermaphrodite. A small sample but others, myself included, have had similar experiences with either Thai or other landrace sativa's. You have bred from the ones that weren't hermie which is great, but that doesn't mean that hermies aren't prevalent in Thais. Also posing fields of Thai from the 70s doesn't really mean anything. The Thai farmers aren't idiots and no doubt culled full on hermies when they see them.

Nice photos from the past but I doubt he would be posting pictures of hermaphrodites as they aren't as photogenic.

That is not the only Thai line i grew Chi i have grown quiet a few different Thai lines over many years dating back many decades.

One line alone i had inbreed it 10 generations that was collected in Thailand in 86 so i am not basing my observations on just one Thai line but on many from the ones i grew and others grew.

 

[Hammerhead]

Sam never breed Haze Hammer or did he really know what haze was all he cared about was the quality of Haze.

I can post exactly what he posted saying just that if you like.

I can only comment on my experiences and they dont match yours Hammer.

They grew huge out door crops back then 10s of 1000s of plants missing males would not be that hard and we all know a little pollen pollinates a lot of plants.

From what Ive read Sam stabilized the seeds he got from the Haze brothers with Robert Clark's help. The original seeds were extremely unstable. he used his stabilized OH to make his outcrosses.
I tagged Sam hoping he would confirm..He had to have his version of OH to breed with after he stabilized it..

As Sam himself acknowledged some years later, the strain created by the Haze Brothers was rather difficult to tame. Given its poor stability, the easiest things turned into incredibly challenging tasks. One of the first phenos to appear was Purple Haze, an amazing strain that also obtained global recognition and still today is remembered as a legend. However, Sam was determined to stabilize it and he most certainly did it. For doing so, he collaborated with Robert Clarke from Sacred Seeds. No sooner did they get to work than they noticed that the more they tried to improve the quality of Haze, the less vigorous it became and thus the poorer the quality ended up being. But, after a while, they finally realized that the best plants were the ones derived from the cross of a Haze and another strain they'd previously worked with, being Haze the one that added the extra touch of quality to the cross. It wasn't until 1976, though, that Sam and Robert decided to start selling the seeds of what we now call Original Haze: a 100 % sativa hybrid very much appreciated by cannabis growers and users alike. No wonder most of them ended up worshipping this strain. The incredible scent of spices accented by subtle notes of incense, wood, and citrus that Skunkman and Co. managed to provide it with was indeed very special. But, if there was one thing that seduced cannabis smokers, apart from the taste, it was its mind-blowing effect capable of driving you into a psychedelic state of mind from which it took long to escape.

I already posted this a few pages back. Is it true who knows without @Sam_Skunkman to verify..

It doesn't change how unstable genetics were back then

 

[@hempy]

I really didnt get into the 5% keepers or diploid or triploid chromosones here but its defintely food for thought for a future thread and the extreme possible cannabanoid increases that are possible. Secondary metabolites beside cbd and thc that add to the effet of the high in psychoactive cannabis.
Real question is...
Why is it rare to find a keeper in a op run ?
Or be able to ibl the ripper potency trait?

I take a simple approach to Breeding and most may not agree with inbreeding but how else you going to remove the shit and enhance and replicate the good with out selection.

The same people that look down on inbreeding use reversal and that is the most extream form of inbreeding.

 

[@hempy]

From what Ive read Sam stabilized the seeds he got from the Haze brothers with Robert Clark's help. The original seeds were extremely unstable. he used his stabilized OH to make his outcrosses.
I tagged Sam hoping he would confirm..

From what i have read Sam has taken OHaze to a F8 but yes Sam has done work on Haze mate what i meant in my post was Sam did not breed or better said Create Haze others did.

 

[Hammerhead]

From what i have read Sam has taken OHaze to a F8 but yes Sam has done work on Haze mate what i meant in my post was Sam did not breed or better said Create Haze others did.

Sam created stabilized OH.. He started with UNSTABLE genetics from the Haze brothers. We all start with someone's seeds.

 

[@hempy]

I like Sam hammer i just pointed out he never breed haze and his never claimed to have.

I wouldn't call Haze stabilized mate no ones cracked the Haze puzzle yet have they because if they had no one would be searching threw lots of seed to find what Tom calls the 5%.

 

[Hammerhead]

That's what's printed. I'm not claiming OH is stabilized lol. You had claimed herms were not common back then. Ive already posted my opinions on how unstable genetics were back then. OH made by Sam happened in 1978ish?. This is about how unstable genetics were. Obviously OH is still unstable.

The site is freaking out on me.