The Search for Trip Weed

[Donald Mallard]

I dunno about the lead theory ,
sounds a bit out there ,
i think it was likely there was just more NLD around in those days,
i dont hear too may folks saying they trip on BLD,

Now lots of hybrids , and the imported NLD grown in the "sweet spots" doesnt happen anymore, seems a whole lot easier to explain than the lead theory ...

 

[MostlyMe]

I have yet to prove anything, this experiment is still in its early stages. I have merely reported that the initial results look promising.

It is my understanding that growing 2 clones from the same mom, in the same garden with the only difference being one gets fed lead and one doesn't and everything else is the same and then having 30 people smoke the two samples and report on the differences is an appropriate test. That the 30 testers blindly and unanimously picked the leaded sample as the best, most intense, most potent and most trippy is somehow flawed

That's not bad actually. My apologies, the way you initially put it made me think you just handed out samples and collected reviews.

It's still a long way off proof though. You'd need more clones and statistics to rule out coincidence. Random fluctuation happens a lot in biology, even with clones. Also, you need to rule out an effect of the sulfate, but if you are feeding both plants generously sulfates already (which you do, I believe), the little extra sulfate from the lead sulfate can be assumed to make no difference.

As for arguing? Tis not my favorite thing. A good debate can be interesting but the truth is I lost a dear friend this weekend in a bike accident and I was not in the mood to argue about a project/experiment that just started.

Sorry that happened to you Debate is essential for scientific progress so it didn't look good when you sent Sam packing, but I understand how you might not have been in the mood.

As for the experiment itself, I think it's a little out there, but I don't mind it at all. Go for it! But be careful and don't count on me being easily convinced

 

[Donn]

I don't imagine we'll ever have a clear definition of "trippy", but in my picture of it, the part I value the most is something I do, more than something done to me - know what I mean? The weed oils the chain and pumps up the tires and more, but I'm pedaling and steering. If someone tells me I have the weed with the special extra something, there's more than a chance it will influence where I go and what happens. I don't have any serious science credentials, but a suggestion for experimental design, find some way to score the leaded & unleaded without knowing which is which until afterwards. Repeat a couple dozen times.

 

[Thcvhunter]

That the 30 testers blindly and unanimously picked the leaded sample as the best, most intense, most potent and most trippy is somehow flawed

Next will be to have them tested by a lab and look for differences in the cannibanoid profile a

Woah!!!!!!!!
WOAH!!!!!

Riddleme, I will not attack you as that goes against Gypsy's wishes for the conduct for this site.
I will, however, say that you ought to be shunned by the medical community.

First I was going to ask if these 30 testers were aware that they may be smoking toxic substances. Then I though, shit, it doesn't matter if you informed them or not. You can't poison people!!!

If you wanted to do this test correctly, you would have only had the lab test the samples and destroyed the rest -- deeming it unfit for ANYBODY to consume.


I will not say that you are a blight to the cannabis community, and especially the medical community, for even attempting something like this with any living being consuming ANY amount of toxic substances.

Please, stop growing and get a job on Wallstreet.


ThaiBliss, thank you for doing all you could to warn Riddleme of his awful mistake.

Please let this be a sticky somewhere of how not to poison your patients.

I mean seriously, did you consult ANY professionals? I'm sure this could have been all figured out on paper with some good chemists and biologists.
Did you ask several doctors about the consumption of toxic substances?
Do you know that the CDC, and the general science community, is now accepting that there are no safe levels of toxic substances? That the old myth of Strength and Length were just ways of getting around regulations?

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day TB , RM

We already know that THC % is just a number .
And terpenes act in synergy . Sulphur helps with terps . Could it be the leaded clone had enhanced terpenes from the sulphur boost . And therefore the effects felt different when smoked ?

I highly doubt lead was a problem in Thailand , Nepal or Colombia . The places trippy herb is known to emanate from . USA yes . But the majority of the USA is not suited to growing late flowering Sativas . So I fail to see the correlation ? Between lead and trippy herb ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all I am not trying to argue.
I was thinking maybe you needed some help?
I think you have misunderstood the lead levels permitted by the OMRI, 300 ppm is for garden soil not food unless I am mistaken. 300 ppm is not allowed in food and is in fact dangerous, even more dangerous in smoked materials. I am no expert in lead, I never looked at it before.

J Assoc Off Anal Chem. 1982 Jul;65(4):942-6.
Levels of lead in the United States food supply.
Jelinek CF.
Abstract
As a result of the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) concern about lead in the food supply, considerable data have been developed in recent years by FDA, other agencies, and industry on the levels of lead in foods. Data obtained on the lead content of milk, eggs, meat, fish, and shellfish indicate that the mean levels in these unprocessed foods varied from 0.02 to about 0.4 ppm, with the lowest level in milk. The major food processing source of lead in food is the lead-soldered can. FDA had assigned top priority to the reduction of lead in foods for infants because of their greater susceptibility to the toxic effects of this metal. The lead levels in foods for infants are now only 1/5 to 1/10 of what they were when FDA expressed its concern about lead to the manufacturers of canned infant formula, evaporated milk, canned infant juices, and glass-packed infant foods. FDA priority interest has now shifted to reduction of lead in adult canned foods, especially those eaten by young children. The mean levels in such foods have decreased from 0.35-0.40 ppm in 1974 to 0.20-0.25 ppm in 1980.


You say you have done all the research? And all the pot we smoked back then was leaded? Do you have a single reference that shows this is a fact or what the lead levels were? Or are now? Same with Kulu Valley do you have tests that show the lead levels? Then or now?

What is a genetic response? Can you describe what you mean? Is the lead changing the DNA? Or just the phenotypic expression? Can you give an example of this principal? Do you have a way to test for a genetic response? What is that test?

I know lead is dangerous, I am not sure you think what you are doing might be dangerous to you and anyone you share this leaded Cannabis with. If lead did make Cannabis seem stronger, or even if it did increase THC levels for example, that does not mean it is wise to do this, lead damage is accumulative and should be avoided.
Post your references and let other people try and see if you have misunderstood anything you think is a fact?

In this case it is not about who is right, it is about safety and preventing harm to anyone even if they gave their permissions to try it. That includes you.

How much lead min-max are you adding to how much soil ? What is the soil PH? Have you tested the lead levels in the soil before and after you added the lead? Have you tested the lead levels in the Cannabis grown with lead and the same without lead? What were the levels?
And the cannabinoid and terpene levels in the same plant leaded and not?

-SamS

Totally understand the concern but I've done the research and ALL the pot we smoked back then was leaded (and I smoked a lot of it) Also the stuff that comes from the Kullu Valley (some of the best pot in the world) is leaded.



I also found the research that was done for regular farmers to protect crops from lead, there is a lot of scientific work that was done on this and if you have a medium high in Mag & K it reduces the plants ability to uptake lead.



Also done the growing test, givin different plants different amounts to determine the minimum to invoke the genetic response, which is actually a very small amount and if ya check you'll see that OMRI those fine organic folks allow up to 300 ppm of lead in ALL the stuff WE eat



I did not just do this on a whim

 

[Lacocina]

What Sam said .... No lead for me ..!

 

[ThaiBliss]

Have you tested the lead levels in the Cannabis grown with lead and the same without lead? What were the levels?

-SamS

I think this is the most important first step. I suppose it is possible that there is no difference in the final product, but I would want to know for sure, just exactly how much lead is getting into the product. Our state is talking about testing for pesticides, and heavy metals is a good idea. I rarely smoke other peoples weed because they use so much fertilizer, a source of heavy metals, and sprays to prevent molds and mildews. When it comes to money, people's principles seem to go out the window.

Our state is riddled with gas chromatography testing sites where for $100 you can get all the major cannabinoids and full terpene analysis. I don't see why you could not test for lead.

ThaiBliss

 

[Donn]

What is a genetic response? Can you describe what you mean? Is the lead changing the DNA? Or just the phenotypic expression? Can you give an example of this principal? Do you have a way to test for a genetic response? What is that test?

I'd be interested myself, but ... for example, I think the common thing plants can do for heavy metals is chelation - binding the metal atom in an organic wrapper molecule. If lead in the environment were excessive enough to exert significant selective pressure, plants could ramp up production of something that happens to bind to lead, and some pharmacologically significant things on the same pathway could come with it.

And again, to call this out as a genetic trait sort of leads to the question of which strains etc. would have it.

 

[Riddleme]

In phase 1 of this experiment, I fed several plants different doses to determine min & max with min being how much caused a change in effect/high and with max how much cause noticeable harm. The dose was 1/4 teaspoon to a gallon of water. The pot that was smoked in the blind test received the min dose of just 2 feedings during flower 1 in wk 3 and 1 in wk 6.

Plant that got a dose a week starting in week 3 so 7 total does was a very strong high but was a harsh smoke. Plants that got higher than 7 doses showed visible damage and were not smoked.

The folks that did the blind smoke test were completely informed and wanted to participate. For what it is worth, I myself have smoked it everyday for the last 4 weeks with zero ill effect.

I have 100's of research links but I'll share a few that directly address Sam's questions

This one shows the map of the ice in greenland and where leaded gas was still being used in the world in 2012.

http://www.unep.org/transport/PCFV/PDF/Algeria/Harmful Effects of Leaded Gasoline, Jane Akumu- UNEP.pdf

This one shows the lead content in Cannabis samples taken from several areas in Pakistan.
Note: that this is an area where leaded gas is still used

http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/Effect of Soil Contamination on Some Heavy Metals Content of Cannabis sativa.pdf

This one was a study done with corn, it was fed Lead Sulfate and then tested for alterations in DNA, other such studies are mentioned ( I have both of em)
Note: even small does altered DNA

http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/23.6/Pol.J.Environ.Stud.Vol.23.No.6.1925-1932.pdf

There was also a study where they were looking for plants that helped clean up an infected area and they found up to 80 DNA markers that were activated by the presence of heavy metals, some plants only had 1

So while my theory is merely a theory, evidence does exist to support it and needs to be studied further. Like I said,,,,,, I have questions

 

[MostlyMe]

Up next, Riddleme's glow-in-the-dark cannabis!

 

[pinkus]

Even if leaded weed got me higher, knowing it had lead in it and what lead does to the brain, bones and CNS, I'd STILL pass.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/basics/symptoms/con-20035487

 

[Siever]

Even if leaded weed got me higher, knowing it had lead in it and what lead does to the brain, bones and CNS, I'd STILL pass.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/basics/symptoms/con-20035487

same goes definitely here!

 

[Donn]

Repairing a couple of the links:

Harmful Effects of Leaded Gasoline

Effect of Soil Contamination on Some Heavy Metals Content of Cannabis sativa

 

[satva]

Punto Rojo

Punto Rojo

Punto Rojo - 8 weeks flowering (top down photo) ~ 20 flowers at the canopy - resin starting to glisten, lower branches are seeded.



Punto Rojo flower - 8 weeks of flowering, resin forming, sweet aroma Mango/Citrus/Pine


PS> ThaiBliss and the search for Purple Zacatecas. I hope you find a sativa domainte phenotype in Sage / Big Sur Holy Weed. The "Red Hair" Mexican (?) phenotype from Destroyer x Highland Mexican is smoking nice. A sifted blend of Destroyer (Thai dominate) x Pakistani Chitral Kush (DS x PCK) and Highland Mexican (HMBB) is my favorite smoke this summer.

Destroyer (Thai) x Pakistani (DS x PCK) is cleaner than Highland Mexican. DS x PCK has no heaviness or energy drain after smoking all day. Highland Mexican is trippier and stronger.

 

[Riddleme]

Up next, Riddleme's glow-in-the-dark cannabis!

Nope, have no radiation experiments planned LOL

next will be cannibanoid ratios

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Nope, have no radiation experiments planned LOL

next will be cannibanoid ratios

I did do a bunch of them, only THC gets you high.
CBD, THCV, and CBC can alter the effects of THC, by basically delaying the onset of THC, reducing peak experiences of THC and making the effects last longer.
Get 100% pure Cannabinoids or you will not know where the effects you feel are coming from. Use a good scale that can weigh 25 mg with accuracy. Use a vaporizor for the tests.
Try terpenes, that does have an effect on THC and the right ones can make THC stronger as well as modifying the effects, some terpenes make the THC more couchlock and physical, some make the THC more cerebral.
That and most cannabis only has THC with little to no other Cannabinoids, specially if bred for smoking ganja like in Thailand, Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica, India.
-SamS

 

[Siever]

That and most cannabis only has THC with little to no other Cannabinoids, specially if bred for smoking ganja like in Thailand, Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica, India.
-SamS

So in other words: pure sativa's if I understand you correctly?

Siever

 

[Donn]

Though don't the high CBD strains often come from the sativa (NLD if you prefer) branch of the family?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sativa is all hemp. NLH.
Indica is both NLD and WLD varieties. Drug varieties.
-SamS

So in other words: pure sativa's if I understand you correctly?

Siever