JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
Original Haze vs the trippy Oldtimer's Haze
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The Search for Trip Weed
- Thread starter ThaiBliss
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Original Haze vs the trippy Oldtimer's Haze
Interesting post in the Mexican Landraces Thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7033210&postcount=546
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7033210&postcount=546
Weed can be destabilizing, yet still feel heavy, draining. Malawi has that tendency. Many pure hazes have that too, but not as pronounced. From what I've read, there are electric, "light", energetic pure haze phenos, but they are rare. Strangely, that rare trait seems to pop up more often in haze crosses. The Dutch hazes (crosses of haze) have it all.
How's your OTH? Heavy or light? (in the sativa kind of heavy or light, obviously)
Mostly Me,
I suppose that when you say " a heavy draining feeling", you mean a body stone. Not necessary a couchlock type bodystone.
I used to go to the Dutch coffeeshops a lot before those in the southern counties had a prohibition for foreingers.
I used to buy Dutch haze strains very often & most of them had a body stone to some degree. Yes, they gave me a jolt of energy, but IMHO if a cannabis strain doesn't give you this jolt, it's not haze.
Of course this is my opinion and by no means I claim to have the truth.
Please feel free ( I mean anybody, not just Mostly Me.) to share your opinion on this. The more people join in in this conversation, the more interesting it will be.
Siever
I suppose that when you say " a heavy draining feeling", you mean a body stone. Not necessary a couchlock type bodystone.
I used to go to the Dutch coffeeshops a lot before those in the southern counties had a prohibition for foreingers.
I used to buy Dutch haze strains very often & most of them had a body stone to some degree. Yes, they gave me a jolt of energy, but IMHO if a cannabis strain doesn't give you this jolt, it's not haze.
Of course this is my opinion and by no means I claim to have the truth.
Please feel free ( I mean anybody, not just Mostly Me.) to share your opinion on this. The more people join in in this conversation, the more interesting it will be.
Siever
No no, not a body stone! The draining feeling refers purely to the mind. It's in a way similar to an indica, yet distinctly different on account of the typical sativa effect going along with it. TB, back me up on this
I'll be interested to hear more about these descriptive terms - heavy and draining, which I think I may understand, and also destabilizing, which I'm pretty sure I don't!
But my question is just the antecedent, in the above - which rare trait is found in haze crosses - light and energetic? This isn't rare at all in general narrow leaf types, but you're saying it's unusual with haze heritage?
My latest favorite is a Purple Haze, from a legal WA grower, no idea of the provenance - ACE's is supposed to be Oldtimers, but no idea if that's what they're using. It isn't the absolute purest energetic thing I have, but it's fairly close, but with just a little added boost of joy and spell bound tranquility. If that is the haze thing, I'm all about that!
Shooters
Active member
Zamaldelica #05 all dried and in the curing jar. Still hunting around for some good ears of corn to make some cob with.
Zamaldelica #06 my male breeder is up to six feet now growing over an inch a day.
The Skunk 1 I'm going to pimp out to the ZD 06 stud. maybe call this cross Sams' Dubi!!
Zamaldelica #06 my male breeder is up to six feet now growing over an inch a day.
The Skunk 1 I'm going to pimp out to the ZD 06 stud. maybe call this cross Sams' Dubi!!
Maybe the smoke report on Purple Haze Thai I posted earlier in this thread will help:
At six weeks cure, the aromas are still developing. I don't get much when opening a jar, but when ground up lots of complex aromas are released. The calyx-on-stalk has a grassy smell with a mango note to it, but the smoke reminded me of watermelon. The other two are spicy incense on a background of wet leaves on a forest floor. The semi-purple tastes bitter.
The highs are similar, but each pheno has unique characteristics as well. I am having a hard time describing the effects without making it sound like you could get that from a hybrid as well. Because you can't, I guarantee it! So when I tell you PHT sends you into a floaty, dreamy state of mind, don't think for a second it has anything in common with an indica. There's too much clarity and energy for that, and there is no heavy feeling. But as far as sativas go, this one isn't crazy energetic, except perhaps in the first 20 minutes when taking a lot. You'll still get off the couch without having to force yourself
The calyx-on-stalk has the heaviest, most relaxing high, clearing the mind of thoughts. The other two promote day dreaming, thoughts floating by happily like clouds, but to different degrees. I'd say the semi-purple is right in between the purple and the calyx-on-stalk.
I like this strain. It's just that I like the Double Jam and Double Thai I grew alongside it much more. Double Jam is more energetic and warm and I'm still sorting through the Double Thai, but so far the spacious, focussed effect I'm getting from it is spectacular. Still, I feel bad not throwing superlatives at PHT, because it does deserve them. It doesn't do anything special for me, but someone else might consider it holy grail. If you always wanted to grow a pure tropical sativa (even now that you are aware they are not necessarily like commercial haze, as you might expect), this is the strain to grow. You won't have to wait 20+ weeks!
And also this blurb from the discussion that followed:
It's really hard to fully understand this if you haven't ventured from the typical commercial strains into the semi-landrace sativas (like Ace offers). I myself initially thought I did something wrong when I grew that Panama, totally wasn't prepared for the dense, heavy feeling, even though it was clearly sativa.
Grow some Malawi and Bangi Haze and you'll know how different sativas can actually be. Neither takes very long either
Some Thoughts
Some Thoughts
Shooters - Nice looking Zamaldelica.
Describing the wide range of effects and degrees of those effect is not a simple thing. Misunderstandings are very common. Sometimes when someone writes something it just seems to ring a bell and I feel like they understand what I'm feeling when smoking the same or similar weed. It is as often a poetic description as it is an attempt at a clinical description.
To me, anything that makes me not want to stand up because my limbs feel heavy is what I describe as couch-lock. I put most Indicas, and as another example, most phenotypes of Golden Tiger in that category, although Golden Tiger gets me high more than stoned, which may seem contradictory, and is a whole other conversation.
Some strains like my one individual of Copalita Oaxacan I tried, or what I remember about most Colombian strains can make me feel that my mind is active, no heavy limbed feeling, but I may not have a desire to get up and move around. It is more of a dreamy total peace of mind and contentment rather than heavy limbed feeling where I can't get up even though I would like to. The SAGE x Purple Haze Thai I have is in this category. To complicate things even more, when I smoke SAGE x Purple Haze Thai, I feel an energy to do something, but a contentment all at the same time. I also feel high and stoned at the same time. That is why I think it would be a good crossover type of high where couch-lock lovers could be introduced to some complex and opposite type of effects, while a balance and familiarity can be maintained.
As far as the comparison of "high" as opposed to "stoned", I think of a high as very cerebral and, with enhanced clarity of thought, though possibly racy and changing directions on a dime. For me, a stone has a bit of a dullness to it, slower and more forgetful, rather than a thought left behind due to having a dozen more thoughts to replace it, as some highs are.
For what it's worth,
ThaiBliss
Some Thoughts
Shooters - Nice looking Zamaldelica.
Describing the wide range of effects and degrees of those effect is not a simple thing. Misunderstandings are very common. Sometimes when someone writes something it just seems to ring a bell and I feel like they understand what I'm feeling when smoking the same or similar weed. It is as often a poetic description as it is an attempt at a clinical description.
To me, anything that makes me not want to stand up because my limbs feel heavy is what I describe as couch-lock. I put most Indicas, and as another example, most phenotypes of Golden Tiger in that category, although Golden Tiger gets me high more than stoned, which may seem contradictory, and is a whole other conversation.
Some strains like my one individual of Copalita Oaxacan I tried, or what I remember about most Colombian strains can make me feel that my mind is active, no heavy limbed feeling, but I may not have a desire to get up and move around. It is more of a dreamy total peace of mind and contentment rather than heavy limbed feeling where I can't get up even though I would like to. The SAGE x Purple Haze Thai I have is in this category. To complicate things even more, when I smoke SAGE x Purple Haze Thai, I feel an energy to do something, but a contentment all at the same time. I also feel high and stoned at the same time. That is why I think it would be a good crossover type of high where couch-lock lovers could be introduced to some complex and opposite type of effects, while a balance and familiarity can be maintained.
As far as the comparison of "high" as opposed to "stoned", I think of a high as very cerebral and, with enhanced clarity of thought, though possibly racy and changing directions on a dime. For me, a stone has a bit of a dullness to it, slower and more forgetful, rather than a thought left behind due to having a dozen more thoughts to replace it, as some highs are.
For what it's worth,
ThaiBliss
In testing 11 females and the progeny of 5 males in Oldtimer's Haze, I found a lot of diversity. It seemed most purple phenos had the drained mental state you guys are talking about. My darkest plant was by far the most relaxing and draining of anything I've tried from the lot. It had a big stress relieving effect that my hybrid loving friends liked a lot for morning smoke. Very dreamy. Very comfortable. Not exciting though. Some people call the purple phenos psychedelic--I guess I don't perceive it like that though.
The green plants are are mostly clear and happy. Some have added sensory distorting effects which are my favorite. Most of them give a nice energy boost, no real relaxing effects until the afterglow phase of the high. Then it becomes a centered, well balanced feeling. Nice socializing effects in a few green phenos which is nice. These remind me of my favorite Thai samples, and I believe charlie g agrees. These are NLD lovers plants. Some people don't dig the racy effects and that's cool.
My Haze hybrid experience has mostly come from poly hybrid crosses with haze in the lineage of both parents. I've had a lot of commercial selections which have had pretty simple effects, but the odd quality selection came along once in awhile. I had a sample of Blue Dream that gave me sparkles in my peripheral vision and a happy, spacey head. Pretty complex for a poly hybrid, but that was one sample out of probably 30 I've tried. J-1 is another poly hybrid that has a somewhat complex effect and I happen to be smoking on some right now. I like the citrusy, peppery pheno but this is the sweet pine-sol Jack pheno. It's positive and energetic in smaller doses but becomes draining in larger doses. The citrus pepper pheno is one of the happiest plants I've ever had. It was only supplanted by a couple green phenos of pure Oldtimers. Potency is important to some, but I'll take the complex one that gets more complex in higher doses every time. I'm interested to try Sam's Haze hybrids. I bet they retain some complexity. Anyone have experience with Sam's hybrids?
J-1 Jack Herer pheno
The green plants are are mostly clear and happy. Some have added sensory distorting effects which are my favorite. Most of them give a nice energy boost, no real relaxing effects until the afterglow phase of the high. Then it becomes a centered, well balanced feeling. Nice socializing effects in a few green phenos which is nice. These remind me of my favorite Thai samples, and I believe charlie g agrees. These are NLD lovers plants. Some people don't dig the racy effects and that's cool.
My Haze hybrid experience has mostly come from poly hybrid crosses with haze in the lineage of both parents. I've had a lot of commercial selections which have had pretty simple effects, but the odd quality selection came along once in awhile. I had a sample of Blue Dream that gave me sparkles in my peripheral vision and a happy, spacey head. Pretty complex for a poly hybrid, but that was one sample out of probably 30 I've tried. J-1 is another poly hybrid that has a somewhat complex effect and I happen to be smoking on some right now. I like the citrusy, peppery pheno but this is the sweet pine-sol Jack pheno. It's positive and energetic in smaller doses but becomes draining in larger doses. The citrus pepper pheno is one of the happiest plants I've ever had. It was only supplanted by a couple green phenos of pure Oldtimers. Potency is important to some, but I'll take the complex one that gets more complex in higher doses every time. I'm interested to try Sam's Haze hybrids. I bet they retain some complexity. Anyone have experience with Sam's hybrids?
J-1 Jack Herer pheno
BoldAsLove,
I'm happy to see Mountain's work is still alive. He passed away last year.
Enjoy that gem
I'm happy to see Mountain's work is still alive. He passed away last year.
Enjoy that gem
^ the above post on high effects would also be a very good description of the phz pheno out of dr.gt golden haze ( phz/ag) that I use. terps are different, but mostlyme was posting on pht.
there are sativas that offer what seem on the surface to resemble wld type high effects, but the high effects off phz, golden tiger, ace narcotic Malawi as examples are much more complex than any pure wld I've puffed.
I've read this more often, about the green haze phenos being more energetic. Wish I could do the comparison myself, although I have Thai around that is indeed a lot more exciting (but also very different).
The dreamy, comfortable trait can be found in many other (green) sativas as well, but my somewhat purple Double Jam has the most energetic start I've ever encountered.
PHT is very haze leaning IMO. Can't detect any obvious kinship with my Double Thai.
This is how I remember the Jamaican ganja back in the early 70s, Thai Stick also. Driving around high as hell, seeing a police car and freaking out, all nervous and paranoid, completely conviced of the impending bust, then laughing our asses off, almost unable to breath, about our own exaggerated fear when the danger passed. Some people just could not take it though. The nervousness was just too much for them. They didn't laugh. LOL. Poor souls. You could build up tolerance to the energy/paranoia to some degree, yet the high stays strong no matter how much you smoked it. Newbies to this type of high need to shed their bravado and sense of themselves as highly experienced smokers, and take it very slow and careful at first. This is hard to do without a benevolent guide, because of the delayed reaction. You can smoke way too much before even feeling a bit of it.
Those were the days...
ThaiBliss
Bold, Ive some fond memories of smoking Sam's HazeSkunk. It is an excellent F1 Hybrid, and my first ever Haze Hybrid I grew, and still the best since. This wasn't your typical run of the mill type of high that you find in many strains. There was nothing generic about the type of highs I experienced under Haze's influence. I experienced many different sensations and experiences after smoking that herb. Some were astounding and euphoric, while others were introspective, sad and depressing. You never really knew what you would get sometimes....
Ever felt nostalgia before? That fuzzy warm feeling that is often times fleeting. Feels great, but gone before you know it. Imagine stretching that nostalgic moment out over half an hour. Everything I did over that time span had a warm euphoric overlay to it. Euphoria is that unicorn Ive been chasing ever since. Id love to experience that nostalgic high again.
Sometimes it played tricks with your mind. I recall smoking a bunch one night with a buddy, and I went to drive home. I jumped in the car, and I had visual distortions when I looked backwards before backing up. The windows kept misting up and defogging repeatedly, but in reality they weren't. I shook it off, and set about to backing up, and threw it in reverse. I spent what seemed an eternity backing up actually feeling the car going in reverse, but something was amiss. It was taking way too long to get out of the driveway. So I stop the car, and look around, only to realize Im back where I started. I never moved a single inch. I had the car in park the whole time. I probably only sat there for a minute, but in my mind it seemed much much longer.
When I finally managed to reverse into the connecting driveway and get myself oriented the right way, I discovered I had driven 20 feet into the neighbors yard without realizing it. Distance and time were very warped during that high. I did manage to make it home safe, but Im glad it was a short trip. Very debilitating highs at times, but so gooood.
Riddleme - That is a beautiful flower you have there.
Here are some garden in the morning pictures. I put up some trellis netting up around the plants last weekend. It was about 3 days after the first thunderstorms that damaged the plants this summer. Bummer. This is the first time I have used this technique. I'm new to these commercial strategies. I'm used to hiding them in the brush where the brush around them help to support them. Next year I think I get the netting up by July 1:
The super skinny leaf and open structure Bangi Haze is barely noticeable inside the trellis:
This is a Fruity Pebbles cut (Mendocino Madness) that I am testing. Actually, I wanted to grow it big, but I have not learned to use cuttings for outdoors appropriately. It finally started growing in vegetative stage. I think I'll stick to seeds:
I hope everyone is having a good season,
ThaiBliss
Here are some garden in the morning pictures. I put up some trellis netting up around the plants last weekend. It was about 3 days after the first thunderstorms that damaged the plants this summer.
Bummer. This is the first time I have used this technique. I'm new to these commercial strategies. I'm used to hiding them in the brush where the brush around them help to support them. Next year I think I get the netting up by July 1:The super skinny leaf and open structure Bangi Haze is barely noticeable inside the trellis:
This is a Fruity Pebbles cut (Mendocino Madness) that I am testing. Actually, I wanted to grow it big, but I have not learned to use cuttings for outdoors appropriately. It finally started growing in vegetative stage. I think I'll stick to seeds:
I hope everyone is having a good season,
ThaiBliss
village green
Member
Never have I seen so many grown men of such intelligence and creativity waste their lives on delusions.
My aversion to cannabis began after smoking during first-time use of LSD. An unavoidable and sudden social engagement led to a freak out in earnest. For many years afterwards, cannabis could trigger panic with impending doom and madness. I mostly kept this to myself out of embarrassment for obviously being so weird. It was only many years later that I learned how widespread this reaction is. I think it was Kesey who spoke in an interview about the relationship between psychedelics and cannabis. After a degree of ego death, the ego resists letting go when cannabis tries to open that door a little.
Oddly, I continued to use and mostly enjoy various psychedelics over the years but weed usually spelt hell. A typical cannabis high had a rapid onset with a feeling of force compressing on the body and psyche. My body would go sedate but my mind would be vigilant and tense. I could not let go to "play in the fields of the Lord". A few years ago I grew Santa Marta Colombian Gold from Reeferman and Flo from DJ Short. After 25 years I could revisit what I had lost. These Sativas energized me but made me centered and calm mentally. I had to move and this movement channeled anxiety into pleasure and euphoria. Tripping used to involve visions and other sensory oddities if I put my mind to it. Mostly, however, it was a feeling of grace..a sort of homecoming...Deja Vu....a remembrance of something just out of reach. The right cannabis can do this.
Thanks for the thread.
My aversion to cannabis began after smoking during first-time use of LSD. An unavoidable and sudden social engagement led to a freak out in earnest. For many years afterwards, cannabis could trigger panic with impending doom and madness. I mostly kept this to myself out of embarrassment for obviously being so weird. It was only many years later that I learned how widespread this reaction is. I think it was Kesey who spoke in an interview about the relationship between psychedelics and cannabis. After a degree of ego death, the ego resists letting go when cannabis tries to open that door a little.
Oddly, I continued to use and mostly enjoy various psychedelics over the years but weed usually spelt hell. A typical cannabis high had a rapid onset with a feeling of force compressing on the body and psyche. My body would go sedate but my mind would be vigilant and tense. I could not let go to "play in the fields of the Lord". A few years ago I grew Santa Marta Colombian Gold from Reeferman and Flo from DJ Short. After 25 years I could revisit what I had lost. These Sativas energized me but made me centered and calm mentally. I had to move and this movement channeled anxiety into pleasure and euphoria. Tripping used to involve visions and other sensory oddities if I put my mind to it. Mostly, however, it was a feeling of grace..a sort of homecoming...Deja Vu....a remembrance of something just out of reach. The right cannabis can do this.
Thanks for the thread.
Re: Mental heaviness
Three types of couch-lock I have experienced:
Where I close my eyes and it feels like I literally weigh a ton and have a feeling of super strength gravity pulling me into my seat.
Where I don't feel the above sensation but am glued to the couch due to a feeling that I've forgotten how to use my body and I'm not especially motivated to re-learn how to just yet.
Where my body feels fine until I get up and find it doesn't walk how I'm telling it to so I sit down again.
Three types of couch-lock I have experienced:
Where I close my eyes and it feels like I literally weigh a ton and have a feeling of super strength gravity pulling me into my seat.
Where I don't feel the above sensation but am glued to the couch due to a feeling that I've forgotten how to use my body and I'm not especially motivated to re-learn how to just yet.
Where my body feels fine until I get up and find it doesn't walk how I'm telling it to so I sit down again.
