The Search for Trip Weed

[Siever]

Mostly me,

I once had a male plant in a 3l pot.To keep it apart I just kept it under the window of my living room. If I expected visitors I sprayed the plant, to keep the pollen from getting airborne and then I put it in a large plastic bag. Then I put it in the same space as my growing tent. Mind that a plant can suffocate in a plastic bag, so the larger the bag, the better.

Siever

 

[satva]

Destroyer (DS) x Highland Mexican (HMBB) ~ f2

Destroyer (DS) x Highland Mexican (HMBB) ~ f2

Individual branches of each DS x HMBB female dusted with pollen in week 3 - 4 of flowering from two DS x HMBB males "Sweet Red Legs" DS dominate and "Wintergreen Candy" a HMBB dominate male (shown in next post)
Pictures from ~ 10 weeks of flowering ~ 90% clear trichones

DS x HMBB - HMBB dominate "Perfume Zorrillos"

DS x HMBB - DS dominate " 11-finger"

"Perfume Zorrillos"

"11-finger"

DS x HMBB - DS dominate " Sweet Red Legs"

 

[satva]

Destroyer x (Destroyer x Highland Mexican) - [DS x (DS x HMBB)]

Destroyer x (Destroyer x Highland Mexican) - [DS x (DS x HMBB)]

Destroyer females - week 3-4 individual branches pollinated by two DS x HMBB "Sweet Red Legs" and "Wintergreen Candy" picutres ~ 10 weeks flowering

DS - "The Favorite" 10 weeks of flowering

DS -"Bride of Frankincense"

DS x HMBB - "Perfume Zorrillos"

DS x HMBB - HMBB dominate "Wintergreen Candy"

 

[satva]

The Search for Trip Weed


DS x HMBB - DS dominate "11-finger"


Destroyer flowers

Destroyer flowers

Grind up flowers then course sift thru a fine kitchen strainer

Course sift > dry sift thru a 180 micron silkscreen

I've been mostly vaporing the course sift. Now I'm vaporizing the golden powder - 180 micron dry sift. Its a kinder, cleaner, and gentler version of smoking the flowers in a bong. All three will get you high!

 

[Infinitesimal]

if any have the potential to be trippy out of this batch I would probably give the edge to these for sake of the flowering time alone... the first one pictured also smells like a chocolate tootsie pop on the stem run...

Wild Type Tabitha v1.1
Tropical NLD x (Tropical NLD x Sativa Dom Hybrid)

two different plants both at 42 days flowering....

a little dual and triple serration leaf pattern...

 

[ThaiBliss]

Wow! Talk about "narrow leaf"! Looks very exotic.

I'd like to call attention to our friend Infinitesimal's launch of his Cannabis breeding endeavor, Rough Diamond Seeds. I'm wishing him the best. He has been very helpful to me in our conversations and his contributions to this thread have been greatly appreciated. He has displayed many qualities that I think will make him successful, including, but not limited to, his discipline in adherence to sound breeding principles. He is among the very few that speak as if they really know what they are doing, and unselfishly promote the principles that will help to make the rest of us, better pollen chuckers, if not better "real" breeders. Charlie Garcia, Dubi, and now Infinitesimal are the first to come to mind when I think of breeders who seem to know what they are doing, and are interested in and understand the often overlooked qualities of fine Sativa, or narrow leaf drug (NLD), varieties.

Here is a link to his thread dedicated to his launch:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6891303&postcount=1

ThaiBliss

 

[Riddleme]

Zamaldelica week 7, ambering up nicely

and a Golden Tiger Male ,,,
.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Question. When flowering pure sativa males, how early can I harvest to choose for flavor and potency. When testing more compact strains I let them go all the way to the end. I'm still learning this really long flowering stuff (indoors by the way).

In the back of my head I know the answer. Just hoping maybe someone will say I can get a good sample in less that 12 weeks, or even 8 (ha).

 

[MostlyMe]

Mostly me,

I once had a male plant in a 3l pot.To keep it apart I just kept it under the window of my living room. If I expected visitors I sprayed the plant, to keep the pollen from getting airborne and then I put it in a large plastic bag. Then I put it in the same space as my growing tent. Mind that a plant can suffocate in a plastic bag, so the larger the bag, the better.

Siever

It's a good idea, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that either. I'll stick to testing strains than making them... for now

 

[satva]

Selecting males

I select 1 or 2 males from 4-5 males at about 6 weeks into flowering. I initiate flowering on the males about 3 weeks earlier than initiation of flowering on the females. I selectively pollinate female lower branches early at about 3-4 weeks after showing clusters of female pistils. Think small. If your selecting 1-2 ultimate males from + 20 male plants, that's different. If you use a few males you won't restrict or bottleneck the genetics. But if you know what your looking for - you should be able to select males in their early to mid flowering range as the pollen begins flowing.

This is what the males look like when I make the selection at about 6 - 7 weeks into flowering. Assume the female flowering to maturity is about 14 - 15 weeks.

Highland Mexican grandfather (1972 Highland Guerrero x Blueberry) time to select


Destroyer x Highland Mexican male, at bit too early to select


Destroyer x Highland Mexican about my right time to select males as pollen begins dropping


Destroyer x Highland Mexican about 8 weeks in flower - long enough for a good smoke test.


Destroyer x Highland Mexican too late to select


FWIW, that's what I do. Hope that helps.

 

[MostlyMe]

You most likely already explained it satva, but what are you working towards? Destroyer and HMxBB is a brilliant combination no matter what, but do you have a specific goal in mind breeding them?

 

[Infinitesimal]

how do you determine one male is genetically superior to his siblings... ie, make selections?

what can you tell about a male plants DNA by its looks in flower?

 

[satva]

what are you working towards?

To create seeds for my use and create a high that I like and experiment. From the 1970's Thai and connoisseur Highland Mexicans were my favorite high.

As a goal - soften the cool, cerebral,and spacious high of Destroyer (Highland Thai dominate) by adding warmth and magic often found in South American sativas and euphoria from Blueberry.

Destroyer and Highland Mexican is a cross of similar growth structure, so basically I'm focusing on the high. Some Destroyer pheno-types are sativa enough for me, so I'm adding some indica thru Blueberry. Blueberry has some stellar genetics, Highland Oaxacan Gold, Highland Thai, and Chocolate Thai along with Afghanistan genetics.

I assume the Destroyer (Highland Thai) x Highland Mexican cross will add depth and complexity to the high, returning closer to original concept of Destroyer (Thai x Mexican/Colombian) . The South America (Mexican/Colombian) father of original Destroyer was lost, and replaced in 2003 by Mr. Klean a Meao Thai leaning father. Destroyer today is about 65% - 75% Meao Thai.

I smoked a small joint from the HMBB male (first shown). The high from the male went straight to my crown chakra, soaring high with heightened awareness, more psychedelic and earthy all aspects of the high I like, but not as clear and clean as Destroyer. I smoked a joint of the Destroyer mother and it was very spacious and time stood still, (kaiki also notes the time distortion). Those were the top two out of about six tested and they became female and male of [DS x HMBB-A] (pictures shown). In DS x HMBB -B I selected a mother that was a bit softer and warmer and crossed with two HMBB f2 males, so more more genetic diversity in (DS x HMBB-B) cross due from two males.

I prefer Destroyer in the winter and Highland Mexican in the summer, if that makes sense. Typically I blend the two in one session. I vaporize. Its easy to blend the kief in equal portions and vaporize the blend. I usually, prefer the high from the blended kief of DS x HMBB. If I'm blending from two separate jars I always start with Destroyer and add Highland Mexican until I attain marijuana enlightenment. For me Highland Mexican has some magic, that I vaguely remember from the 1970's and a few decades of mediation and spiritual practice.

I blend DS + HMBB + Mango Haze using both haze phenotypes (what i beleive are Colombian and Thai hazes). The Mango Haze with the Colombian effect is the most psychedelic of the three and has a wonderful energy flow, similar to the high of HMBB but even hazey phenotypes of Mango haze have more density and complexity to the high. Destroyer is the clearest and cleanest, then Highland Mexican, then hazey pheno-types of Mango Haze are the least clear.

The Thai dominate phenotype of Mango Haze has a high like you describe, "it makes everything feel like it should" in a spiritual way, but lacks vigor, strength and magic. My next project was supposed to be "Spiritual High" and now its Highland Colombian, mainly Punto Rojo, if I can grow a hazey sativa. Some have noted Punto Rojo has a spiritual high, so Punto Rojo is the direction I'm heading ~. Punto Rojo f2 and maybe ~ Highland Thai x Highland Mexican x Highland Colombian.

My selection criteria for males are - resin, aroma, (scratch and sniff) flowering time, inter-nodal spacing, leaf structure, male flower structure, vigor, and high smoking new growth, compare to smoke from other new growth male and female. I don't utilize DNA testing, I'm more of an artist and herbalist, I select plant that meet the most selection criteria and have the vibe that I like. If i smoke an early sample and the effect is a depressing, dense, heavy, or brings me down, that plant gets culled.

I have four versions of [DS x HMBB - A] f2 seeds, two females each pollinated with pollen from two males, I'll start cleaning the DS x HMBB f2 seeds and smoke testing the seeded flowers soon which will be the first indication if I made good selections.

I'm growing legally in compliance with Colorado's laws, which limits breeding, but its workable.

 

[Infinitesimal]

hey satva,

I figured you dont do genomic sequencing, my point was that...

qualitative phenotypic traits dont tell you much (especially in the case of males) about a specimens genetics or what it will pass onto its progeny... you have make quantitative measuerments using controlled experiments to determine one males value over another...

So IMO, by using some males and not others... you are in fact bottlenecking your population and its expressions via random selection...

phenotypic selection = random genetic recombinations

you would be better off using all the males... and only using seed for the next gen from your absolute best female.

 

[Siever]

It's a good idea, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that either. I'll stick to testing strains than making them... for now

Well, than look at your situation like this: the more time you have to test new strains, the more chance you have to stumble upon something tremendous. At this very moment I have the same ambition as you: to make an exceptional cross(I'm looking for creativity combined with energy and a flowering time preferably under 16 weeks, more like 11 to 14 weeks if that is possible.). The next strain to test is Y Griega by medical seeds. right now I have Motavation (Magus/Serious seeds) and Ghana (CBG) in the growing room and MK Ultra in the flowering room. The thing with MK Ultra is: I once had a plant with just a few nanners, but as a result of this I had very few seeds in every plant I grew back then. Since that grow I have free MK Ultra seeds every time I grow'em! This is very handy when you are out of money. All together I think it's a decent strain.

Siever

 

[satva]

bottlenecking your population
Yes, one goal is to bottleneck or isolate a 1972 Highland Guerrero f2. And, and yes again - I'm trying to bottleneck the high I like. I'm not a preservationist. Use ThaiBliss's experience with the Oaxacan called Copilata (sp), he grew a female, the flowers looked awesome, but he wasn't fond of the high. I was hoping ThaiBliss would find the connoisseur high from 1975 Highland Oaxacan Gold (HOG) in the Oaxacan Copilata and work from there. That's a different approach than preservation. DJ Short supposedly did that with Flo, trying to recreate the HOG high; but Flo contains a considerable amount of Afghanistani genetics. For Mexican's Chimera's 1972 Highland Guerrero is a good one, even at 50%.

Yes, I'm selecting males based on my criteria and females based on the high and plant structure and adaptability to my growing style. Ideally, I'd select based on the cured female marijuana flowers - one female selected from a few females, based on the high I like - then grow the males to make seeds in a cross.

Mango Haze and Blueberry (polyhybrids) are diverse both in genetics and the breeding methods. As long as Mango Haze or Blueberry is in the cross, its hard to bottleneck genetics and almost impossible for me to think about stabilizing a specific phenotype

Destroyer's is currently ~ f6, but the first generation used nine Meao Thai females so again lots of genetic diversity in Destroyer. The general concept is broad - Highland Thai x Highland Mexican. There are Highland Mexican and Highland Thai genetics in both Destroyer and Highland Guerrero x Blueberry. If you like the high of all the pheno-types you'd smoked, and the breeding goal is exploring Highland Thai x Highland Mexican genetics its hard to get too off base with Destroyer x Highland Mexican.

I'm all ears, I'm just sharing my process and thoughts.

 

[Infinitesimal]

my point is, not one of preservation, but if you're breeding for the high you like... then you could be erroneously culling a male that passes on the genes for the EXACT high you like... because you cannot phenotypically observe the genes themselves nor the high in a male.

you dont have to believe me, but to better reach your goals you want to bottleneck female expressions not males.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Right now I plan to select against poor taste and high. I have several males to choose from. A few Laos Luang Prabang, zamaldelicas, nevhz x oax, skunk haze, a blueberry sativa I've already smoked and know has a great high. As for girls I have a few of the laos, 6 zamals, blue sativa and and several packs to germinate. And a whole bunch of other not so sativa things.

I figure next generation when I have 1000's of seeds I will be able to make some better selections. My fear is making a ton of seeds and dedicating to much space to some long flowering hay tasting crap.

 

[Infinitesimal]

My fear is making a ton of seeds and dedicating to much space to some long flowering hay tasting crap.

its a risk reward game especially if you want something unique that hasnt been worked a whole bunch by someone already... like ACE and CBG gear... which good stuff can regularly be found in pretty easily but even though less common they are not really rare or unique.

genetics is like a big game of black jack, its based on odds and probabilities... you can learn to count cards and stack decks in your favor but still its a matter of numbers and playing enough hands until you get dealt a winning one.

that said, count cards

 

[MostlyMe]

As a goal - soften the cool, cerebral,and spacious high of Destroyer (Highland Thai dominate)

My single Destroyer plant yielded a rather kind and warm high actually. It sure looked Thai, but may have more Mexican influences than what you have encountered. Cerebral and spacious apply to the high as well.

Sure is an interesting project though, exactly the kind I would like to pursue if I had the resources. I should move