I'll be updating about this plants amigos
Let you know any time soon!
Now enjoy your weekend!
Nomás no se vaya a poner muy pendejos!
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That one guy is gone.

I'll be updating about this plants amigos
Let you know any time soon!
Now enjoy your weekend!
Nomás no se vaya a poner muy pendejos!
View Image
Just a note about the knowledge and consumption of marijuana and its hashish in today's Spain, in times before the Conquest of Mexico.
Article from Patronato de la Alhambra about Nazari smoking pipes (from the Sultanate or Kingdom of Granada) and photos of pipes from approximately 900 AD to near 1500 AD:
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Although the use of hashish or Indian hemp was forbidden in al-Andalus, its consumption must have been commonplace judging by the smoking pipes of this period that have come down to us. It is not known when it began to be consumed. There are already some examples of pipes from the Caliphate period, such as those preserved in the Museo Arqueológico y Etnológico de Córdoba, like this example in the shape of a ship's prow found in Espejo or this other boat-shaped pile found in a Cordovan street.
In the Nasrid period, between the 13th and 15th centuries, it is known with certainty that the habit of smoking a pipe was common, as shown by the growing number of examples preserved in relation to previous periods. This is also attested to by the accounts of figures of the time, such as the religious Ibn Jamis Muhammad al-Ruayni, or the literati Ibn 'Asim al-Garnati and Ibn al Khatib, who mention this subject. The latter refers to some spaces in Granada during the period of Sultan Muhammad VI in which hashish was consumed. In this article we talk about the smoking pipes of the Alhambra Museum and, specifically, the specimens that can be seen in Room VII of the permanent exhibition. There is a wide variety of Hispano-Muslim smoking pipes, from simple spherical bowl shapes to pipes with more complex exterior decoration. But in general, they all follow a very similar model, change shapes, change size or decoration, but maintain the same structure. In general, they can be divided into two parts: a stove or bowl, which is the part where the substance to be smoked was burned; and an embouchure, a conduit that served as a draft and where the mouthpiece fitted. The nozzle would be quite thin, judging by the thickness of the mouthpiece, and would end up in a truncated cone shape, making it easier to suck through. These nozzles would have been made of an organic material, possibly wood or cane, so there is no archaeological record." (...)
https://www.alhambra-patronato.es/p...bFOUsmrcUq9e_3ljyPolQ8xlCISWoOPMWMBMvsmTFIsfQ
The presence of allele BT in the C. sativa gene pool suggests that introgression from C. indica might have played a role in the evolution of C. sativa . Wind?blown pollen may have contributed to allele migration between the two gene pools (Cabezudo et al., 1997). Relatively high BT frequencies (range 0.38–0.55) were detected in seven hemp accessions from Turkey, Spain, Italy, former Yugoslavia, and southern Russia, which are assignable to the southern eco?geographical group of C. sativa (Davidyan, 1972). Additional allozyme markers and morphological traits typical of C. indica were also observed in the southern group of C. sativa (Hillig, 2004, in press).
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.91.6.966
That one guy is gone.Pulque I believe is what they are drinking. Used to be a big deal and not so much now. Beer and Tequila are favored.
We've talked about this before, if the Muslims in Spain were using pipes to smoke hashish it would be an astonishing, mind-blowing find because no other pipes have been discovered pre-Columbus in the old World. Besides two possible water pipe pieces in Africa. Pipes had been used in the New World to smoke tobacco but hashish wasn't smoked in the Old World until after the introduction of tobacco. I think it's likely it's a mistake, the pipes came later and the website got their dating mixed up. A search turns up nothing. I'd love to see some other verification, there's all sorts of mis-information posted on the web.
You realize this could raise all sorts of questions. For instance how were pipes invented and used in Spain, but didn't spread to the rest of Eurasia? Why were they made so well when they had just been invented? I wonder if they've been tested?
I don't want to derail the thread anymore then we already have, it's a place to discuss and look at pictures of Mexican landraces. There's better places to discuss the history stuff, I'll try to wrap it up. I sent the museum a note asking for details about the pipes. Hopefully they'll get back to me. I notice their references are older, from the earlier 20th century, when dating and chemical analysis wasn't that great. Hopefully they'll get back to me, the problem is always $ someone has to take the time to analyze and test the pipes. The other potential pre-Columbus pipes in the Old World are all from Africa.
Cortes made multiple expeditions, not sure of the dates but he explored northwestern Mexico and Baja California in 1536. Cortes is an interesting guy, certainly a psychopath by modern standards but he wasn't a gold-crazed genocidal fool like Francisco Pizzaro and his shitty brothers. He showed a degree of respect to the culture and society he was conquering and demolishing and worked to integrate it into the new nation. Eventually got dragged back to Spain because he resisted turning Mexico into a slave state.
The Spanish hemp strains weren't psychoactive but they probably contained some THC. As cannabis acclimates to a new environment it's cannabinoids change, in hotter climates with shorter days it tends towards higher THC and lower amounts of CBD. Unless the hemp growers were selective in their breeding in a couple decades their hemp could stray towards the THC side. They'd most likely replace it with fresh seed from Spain to keep the breeding towards true hemp. This may be what the production limits set in 1550 were all about.
We've talked about this before, if the Muslims in Spain were using pipes to smoke hashish it would be an astonishing, mind-blowing find because no other pipes have been discovered pre-Columbus in the old World. Besides two possible water pipe pieces in Africa. Pipes had been used in the New World to smoke tobacco but hashish wasn't smoked in the Old World until after the introduction of tobacco. I think it's likely it's a mistake, the pipes came later and the website got their dating mixed up. A search turns up nothing. I'd love to see some other verification, there's all sorts of mis-information posted on the web.
You realize this could raise all sorts of questions. For instance how were pipes invented and used in Spain, but didn't spread to the rest of Eurasia? Why were they made so well when they had just been invented? I wonder if they've been tested?
im surprised to hear people still believe columbus discovered america ,,plenty of evidence all over the world showing advanced civilizations with similar ideology s 1000s of years before he came along ,,it takes quite a leap of imagination to think we were all sub human half apes with no knowledge of plants,, particularly plant medicines pre columbus
Your last argument is a total misrepresentation...
And no one is offensively prejudging your historical knowledge or treating you like an ape.
I don't know if in your prejudices and doubts towards the proofs and evidences that are presented to you, you are behaving the same way...
Cheers and good vibes...
ouch lol i didnt take anything personal an i dont think im prejudice to anyone here ,, sorry if i appeared that way , im certainly not interested in arguments ,its just when there so much strong evidence of advanced civilisations predating the times of columbus it would seem very likely people,, cannabis and other plants were transported many years before,,,but hey dont let me stop the thread ,, was just a point of view ,,,i do admit however to having little faith in the truth of the history were generally taught by our governments/schools ,so if not believing what proven bullshitters teach me is predudice i guess i am guilty of that ,,,peace
ps let me be clear an say england uk when i refer to proven bullshitters in government before anyone accuse me of slandering there land ,,if youve got honest government ,, god bless you
(!!??)...We've talked about this before, if the Muslims in Spain were using pipes to smoke hashish it would be an astonishing, mind-blowing find because no other pipes have been discovered pre-Columbus in the old World. Besides two possible water pipe pieces in Africa. Pipes had been used in the New World to smoke tobacco but hashish wasn't smoked in the Old World until after the introduction of tobacco. I think it's likely it's a mistake, the pipes came later and the website got their dating mixed up. A search turns up nothing. I'd love to see some other verification, there's all sorts of mis-information posted on the web.
You realize this could raise all sorts of questions. For instance how were pipes invented and used in Spain, but didn't spread to the rest of Eurasia? Why were they made so well when they had just been invented? I wonder if they've been tested?
who are you to say what im interested in lol you seem very fast to judge people ,,,i have no problem with arguments that conflict any opinion you also seem very keen to make it personal,, opinions are fickle they are merely mental masturbation some do it more than others ,or to put it another way some people are much bigger wankers than others ,anything that conflicts truth which can be proven of course a rational person would disagree with i didnt get your script there ,,,,,i made no mention of the origin of pipes so dont put words in my mouth or imaginary quotes i already apologised if i came across wrong to anyone ,, seems to me your hypocritically the one getting bent out of shape when presented with a different point of view to your own opinion,,, this kinda convo has no value other than revealing your character if you want to get personal just pm im sure i could think of some things to reply with but ill not clutter up this thread any more ,,Not only are you not interested in arguments that contradict your opinions: you also tegiverse or misread those arguments:
Who's saying that smoking pipes or hashish consumption were invented in Islamic Spain, for example?:
(!!??)...
...And here I leave you extensions of some beautiful pipes (between 800 and 1500 AD) for cannabis and hash from Islamic Spain. You can see them live in the Alhambra Museum (among others); (images from the Department of Culture of the Government of Andalusia (Spain):
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You can comment about whatever you want wherever you want. I didn't start this thread and I'd rather discuss the history of pipes, the introduction of hemp to the Americas, and other related history topics in threads devoted to the subject. Elchischas started this thread and Mexican landraces, his pictures and discussion of current seed preservation is more interesting to me and I'm guessing most other posters.don't know why in this thread you can't "investigate" how the Spanish seeds introduced in Mexico would be, but you can comment on personal opinions about the figure of Hernan Cortés...(by the way
I totally differ in your last opinion about him
His letters to Charles V are filled with warnings and pleas. He begged that only settlers be allowed in New Spain, not adventurers "intent on consuming the country's substance and then abandoning it." He asked for humble priests who would convert by pious example, not high prelates who would "dispose of the gifts of the Church and waste them in pomp and other vices." He recommended that lawyers be banned on the grounds that they encouraged contention in order to profit from the ensuing litigation. Most of all, he deplored the practice of repaying services to the crown with Indian slaves to work land grants, yet he had no other way of rewarding his own followers.
who are you to say what im interested in lol you seem very fast to judge people ,,,i have no problem with arguments that conflict any opinion you also seem very keen to make it personal,, opinions are fickle they are merely mental masturbation some do it more than others ,or to put it another way some people are much bigger wankers than others ,anything that conflicts truth which can be proven of course a rational person would disagree with i didnt get your script there ,,,,, i made no mention of the origin of pipes so dont put words in my mouth or imaginary quotes i already apologised if i came across wrong to anyone ,, seems to me your hypocritically the one getting bent out of shape when presented with a different point of view to your own opinion,,, this kinda convo has no value other than revealing your character if you want to get personal just pm im sure i could think of some things to reply with but ill not clutter up this thread any more ,,
We've talked about this before, if the Muslims in Spain were using pipes to smoke hashish it would be an astonishing, mind-blowing find because no other pipes have been discovered pre-Columbus in the old World. Besides two possible water pipe pieces in Africa. Pipes had been used in the New World to smoke tobacco but hashish wasn't smoked in the Old World until after the introduction of tobacco. I think it's likely it's a mistake, the pipes came later and the website got their dating mixed up. A search turns up nothing. I'd love to see some other verification, there's all sorts of mis-information posted on the web.
You realize this could raise all sorts of questions. For instance how were pipes invented and used in Spain, but didn't spread to the rest of Eurasia? Why were they made so well when they had just been invented? I wonder if they've been tested?
Where are the Taino today?