the Mexican Landraces Thread

[Im'One]

In the mid to late seventies in a small town in missouri where i could get twelve years for selling a nickel bag....columbian gold was numero uno, thai was impossible to get?
Hash was a gift from god
Mexican was next
then the home grown
I remember when i started disliking weed
I was a young married man with a lot of responsibility and weed started making me couch lock
I would be thinking millions of thoughts and not able to move
That was 1980, 81, 82...
I realize now it was the beginning of hybrids and the 'balanced' high it wasnt me that changed! It was the weed! We couldnt get a good sativa any more.
I still prefer a euphoric energizing sativa....or
An indica if i need to sleep

 

[herbgreen]

^^Right there with you...

I feel just exactly like that!

 

[elchischas]

Back when I was growing bagseed in the late '80s and early '90s nobody would ever tell you where the brickweed was from. Nearly all of it where I lived came through Sinaloa but I know that back then they were just reselling weed that was grown all over Mexico. The tiny amount that wasn't from Mexico was Southeast Asian sold by the Hmong. The Mexican plants and the Southeast Asian plants had very different looks so I can say for sure that the parents were from Mexico but I have no idea where in Mexico specifically.

By the time I made this cross I had probably flowered around 100 Mexican plants over the the course of the previous five years. This line was so much better than any of the other Mexican I had grown that I knew right away that I had something special. At that point I decided that I had to do everything possible to keep the line safe until it could go back out into the world after legalization.

Mexican was the default weed in the US for decades but most Americans have never had good Mexican, when I smoke this with people for the first time they are usually surprised by how it hits them, especially because it is so different than modern hybrids.

I think that the first part of México where the hybridation came was the Sinaloa area, so as you well said probably that genetic goes thru the deep south into the north part of the country. Sadly mostly of the people here in México haven't any clue about our landraces, always they just talk about funny names and the bud colours, and recently people just want to get all the kushes,oils,dabs all the american things.
I was talking with a a friend who's know a lot of landraces and he knows something about history
So we think that the real potent strains of México cames from the slaves, in Guerrero state where the famous "Acapulco Gold" cames is where lives almost all the african slaves descendants, and near to Oaxaca in Puebla, a lot of asians and lebaneses descendants lives, also in Acapulco a lot of merchanships arrives from Asia, specially from Phillipines, so many mexican landraces could be descendants from african and asia cannabis

 

[Som 2]

One of the problems that the Spanish would have had when they came to the Americas was that the European hemp they grew in Spain doesn't grow very well in the tropics. It would have flowered too early which would have led to very short plants with low fiber yields. Without good tropical cannabis strains that they could grow near their ports it would have been hard to outfit and repair their ships for the trip back to Spain. They would have needed something with more stretch in the flower than temperate hemp.

They would have actually had this problem before they discovered the Americas when they got to the Canary Islands. If they had seen cannabis growing in west Africa it would have been logical to bring those tropical strains to the Canary Islands because they would be much more suited to the photoperiod there than hemp was. Since the Canary Islands were the last stop for supplies before ships crossed the Atlantic it would have been important to be able to produce rope and sails there. The next logical step would then be to bring those strains over to their colonies in the Americas. Because Spanish hemp isn't psychoactive it would have never occurred to the Spanish to use it that way, but the African slaves would have known.

This is all speculation on my part but it seems plausible. It would be interesting to find feral cannabis growing on the Canary Islands and compare it genetically to west African and Latin American strains. It may have been the bridge between the two. It would have also have made sense for the Spanish to bring cannabis seeds over from the Phillipines to their Pacific coast colonies to see how it grew.

 

[rolandomota]

the Spanish sailors brought it from India

 

[ahortator]

Hi. Mustafunk told about the Manila Galleon. In fact they arrived to the port of Acapulco every year for a few centuries. Mexican polyembryonic mango strains as Ataulfo ancestors and Manila (as you can guess by the name) were brought from Phillipines to Mexico in those galleons.

But if you search in Phylos Galaxy the most reliable sources of Acapulco Gold seeds (Ma Dang, from David Crosby, and Robert C. Clarke), they seem to cluster closer to hemp than to South East Asian ganja or the group they call landrace.

The question is: Did the tropical climatic conditions, high UV and proper selection the job to shift hemp from mostly chemotype III to chemotype I? Is such thing possible?

 

[Montuno]

One of the problems that the Spanish would have had when they came to the Americas was that the European hemp they grew in Spain doesn't grow very well in the tropics. It would have flowered too early which would have led to very short plants with low fiber yields. Without good tropical cannabis strains that they could grow near their ports it would have been hard to outfit and repair their ships for the trip back to Spain. They would have needed something with more stretch in the flower than temperate hemp.

They would have actually had this problem before they discovered the Americas when they got to the Canary Islands. If they had seen cannabis growing in west Africa it would have been logical to bring those tropical strains to the Canary Islands because they would be much more suited to the photoperiod there than hemp was. Since the Canary Islands were the last stop for supplies before ships crossed the Atlantic it would have been important to be able to produce rope and sails there. The next logical step would then be to bring those strains over to their colonies in the Americas. Because Spanish hemp isn't psychoactive it would have never occurred to the Spanish to use it that way, but the African slaves would have known.

This is all speculation on my part but it seems plausible. It would be interesting to find feral cannabis growing on the Canary Islands and compare it genetically to west African and Latin American strains. It may have been the bridge between the two. It would have also have made sense for the Spanish to bring cannabis seeds over from the Phillipines to their Pacific coast colonies to see how it grew.

the Spanish sailors brought it from India

Hi. Mustafunk told about the Manila Galleon. In fact they arrived to the port of Acapulco every year for a few centuries. Mexican polyembryonic mango strains as Ataulfo ancestors and Manila (as you can guess by the name) were brought from Phillipines to Mexico in those galleons.

But if you search in Phylos Galaxy the most reliable sources of Acapulco Gold seeds (Ma Dang, from David Crosby, and Robert C. Clarke), they seem to cluster closer to hemp than to South East Asian ganja or the group they call landrace.

The question is: Did the tropical climatic conditions, high UV and proper selection the job to shift hemp from mostly chemotype III to chemotype I? Is such thing possible?

Cannabis with psychoactive potency has been cultivated on a large scale in present-day Spain since the middle of the 8th century, when Abderraman 1° (in Spanish) aka Abd-al-Rahman 1° (in Arabic) made the Islamic Hispania politically independent from the Abbasid Caliphate of Baghdad, proclaiming the Umayyad Emirate of Cordoba and himself Emir.
To fight against the great power of the Abbasid Caliphate, he boosts the cultivation of cannabis on a large scale, for the sails and ropes of the new naval fleet he creates. Probably of Indian origin, this cannabis was psychoactive, as historical sources and evidence testify.
Despite traditional Islamic prohibitions, the practice of smoking cannabis (in pipes displayed in various Spanish museums) was widespread, and was tolerated (as was wine consumption) by the Hispanic Islamic power.

Later, cannabis brought by the Portuguese from India and East Africa will be introduced in Spain, especially in the Canary Islands.
This "genetic cocktail" was the first that could be in the first cultivation of hemp in America, ordered by Hernan Cortes for the needs of the ships created in his Mexican shipyard in Guerrero.
This cannabis was also psychoactive, as shown by the complaints of the Church to the Crown that among the popular classes in Spanish America, extends the custom of "intoxication" smoking hemp flowers intended to harness the naval fleet .

Later, the contribution of the seeds brought from the Philippines by the famous "Manila Galleon" entered through Guerrero (Acapulco)...

 

[elchischas]

So many interesting info amigos
Spanish and slaves and merchanships bring all many different strains to México, and some get crossed here another just was selected by the people and got the own new característics, here in México still some pure interesting lines,some with unique forms and unique cannabinoids profile

 

[elchischas]

Like this old lady, the mother of mi 12 fingers cross

 

[elchischas]

 

[willydread]

Like this old lady, the mother of mi 12 fingers cross
View Image

Oh que hermosa!
A beautiful mexican lady!

 

[herbgreen]

yeah, classic marijuana plant... gotta love that!

 

[elchischas]

Gracias amigos!
Some more pictures of the "mexican" that i got right now
By now i'm not sure about if its pure mexican landrace
There's something about it that makes me think its a hybrid with probably most mexican blood on it

 

[elchischas]

Probably its pure...the fact is that i'm not very familiar with this one, so just the time will tell about it
Some more

 

[elchischas]

I like to show many pictures of one specific plants
And if we are searching for preserve the landraces is so important to take a lot of pictures of it, in a future we can identificate properly

 

[elchischas]

I'll be updating about this plants amigos
Let you know any time soon!
Now enjoy your weekend!

Nomás no se vaya a poner muy pendejos!

 

[therevverend]

Nice work as always elchischas. In the last few years I've realized how important a tool photography can be for breeding and strain preservation. You can only store so much information in your brain and no matter how good you are at note taking it's difficult to pass on the important bits to other people.

One of the problems that the Spanish would have had when they came to the Americas was that the European hemp they grew in Spain doesn't grow very well in the tropics. It would have flowered too early which would have led to very short plants with low fiber yields. Without good tropical cannabis strains that they could grow near their ports it would have been hard to outfit and repair their ships for the trip back to Spain. They would have needed something with more stretch in the flower than temperate hemp.

The Spanish introduction of hemp into the new world is well documented, we've talked about it in other threads. Besides Chile, Mexico was the most important place for hemp cultivation and it was brought with Cortes's second expedition. Pedro Cuadrado, a conquistador in Cortes's army, brought cannabis seeds and started cultivating hemp commercially with a friend. It was quite successful until curtailed in 1550 by the Spanish governors who decided to limit production because it was being used by the natives 'for something other then rope'.

Som 2 is right about the climate being wrong for hemp in most of Spain's American colonial empire, this is why cultivation was mostly restricted to areas of Chile and Mexico. Hemp was grown in Cuba in the 18th century but was quickly replaced by sugar that was worth much more $. Spanish California, like American California, was great for growing cannabis and the Spanish missions grew a lot. Hemp was introduced in 1795 to Mission San Jose with the support of Diego de Borica, a Spanish explorer and the 7th governor of "Las Californias". In 1801 the Spanish government sent cannabis farming specialists from Mexico to the colonies in California to promote hemp cultivation. Within 6 years the new plantations were producing many thousands of pounds of fiber, mostly in areas around Santa Barbara, San Jose, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. The Russians at Fort Ross grew hemp on a local subsistence scale during their stay in Cali from 1812-1841.

These were hemp strains, not drug cannabis, although the natives enjoyment of the stuff started right away. I'm sure there was selection for drug traits in Mexico for hundreds of years along with small scale introduction of potent seed but the really good stuff from India showed up in the 19th century. Mexican strains are a mix, primarily showing traits of the Indian drug varieties along with a bit of the older European hemp and maybe a bit of African genetics as well. The strains have had plenty of time to acclimatize to local conditions and diversify.

 

[Montuno]

Nice work as always elchischas. In the last few years I've realized how important a tool photography can be for breeding and strain preservation. You can only store so much information in your brain and no matter how good you are at note taking it's difficult to pass on the important bits to other people.

The Spanish introduction of hemp into the new world is well documented, we've talked about it in other threads. Besides Chile, Mexico was the most important place for hemp cultivation and it was brought with Cortes's second expedition. Pedro Cuadrado, a conquistador in Cortes's army, brought cannabis seeds and started cultivating hemp commercially with a friend. It was quite successful until curtailed in 1550 by the Spanish governors who decided to limit production because it was being used by the natives 'for something other then rope'.

Som 2 is right about the climate being wrong for hemp in most of Spain's American colonial empire, this is why cultivation was mostly restricted to areas of Chile and Mexico. Hemp was grown in Cuba in the 18th century but was quickly replaced by sugar that was worth much more $. Spanish California, like American California, was great for growing cannabis and the Spanish missions grew a lot. Hemp was introduced in 1795 to Mission San Jose with the support of Diego de Borica, a Spanish explorer and the 7th governor of "Las Californias". In 1801 the Spanish government sent cannabis farming specialists from Mexico to the colonies in California to promote hemp cultivation. Within 6 years the new plantations were producing many thousands of pounds of fiber, mostly in areas around Santa Barbara, San Jose, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. The Russians at Fort Ross grew hemp on a local subsistence scale during their stay in Cali from 1812-1841.

These were hemp strains, not drug cannabis, although the natives enjoyment of the stuff started right away. I'm sure there was selection for drug traits in Mexico for hundreds of years along with small scale introduction of potent seed but the really good stuff from India showed up in the 19th century. Mexican strains are a mix, primarily showing traits of the Indian drug varieties along with a bit of the older European hemp and maybe a bit of African genetics as well. The strains have had plenty of time to acclimatize to local conditions and diversify.

I, however, already thought that the cannabis introduced by the Spanish was already psychoactive...

Pd: therevverend : Second expedition of Cortés ??

Cannabis with psychoactive potency has been cultivated on a large scale in present-day Spain since the middle of the 8th century, when Abderraman 1° (in Spanish) aka Abd-al-Rahman 1° (in Arabic) made the Islamic Hispania politically independent from the Abbasid Caliphate of Baghdad, proclaiming the Umayyad Emirate of Cordoba and himself Emir.
To fight against the great power of the Abbasid Caliphate, he boosts the cultivation of cannabis on a large scale, for the sails and ropes of the new naval fleet he creates. Probably of Indian origin, this cannabis was psychoactive, as historical sources and evidence testify.
Despite traditional Islamic prohibitions, the practice of smoking cannabis (in pipes displayed in various Spanish museums) was widespread, and was tolerated (as was wine consumption) by the Hispanic Islamic power.

Later, cannabis brought by the Portuguese from India and East Africa will be introduced in Spain, especially in the Canary Islands.
This "genetic cocktail" was the first that could be in the first cultivation of hemp in America, ordered by Hernan Cortes for the needs of the ships created in his Mexican shipyard in Guerrero.
This cannabis was also psychoactive, as shown by the complaints of the Church to the Crown that among the popular classes in Spanish America, extends the custom of "intoxication" smoking hemp flowers intended to harness the naval fleet .

Later, the contribution of the seeds brought from the Philippines by the famous "Manila Galleon" entered through Guerrero (Acapulco)...

 

[ahortator]

https://books.google.es/books?id=p9...onepage&q=cultivo cañamo nueva españa&f=false

https://books.google.es/books?id=98pAt7EupZcC&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://relatosehistorias.mx/nuestras-historias/el-cannabis-llego-con-los-espanoles

https://www.budbuds.us/introduccion-del-cannabis-en-america/

The first "tornaviaje" was in 1565. So the hemp forbiden in 1550 didn't arrive to Mexico by that route.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_galleon

In 1545 gowing hemp was still encouraged by authorities.

 

[Montuno]

https://books.google.es/books?id=p9...onepage&q=cultivo cañamo nueva españa&f=false

https://books.google.es/books?id=98pAt7EupZcC&hl=es&pg=PP5#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://relatosehistorias.mx/nuestras-historias/el-cannabis-llego-con-los-espanoles

https://www.budbuds.us/introduccion-del-cannabis-en-america/

The first "tornaviaje" was in 1565. So the hemp forbiden in 1550 didn't arrive to Mexico by that route.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_galleon

In 1545 gowing hemp was still encouraged by authorities.

View Image

Just a note about the knowledge and consumption of marijuana and its hashish in today's Spain, in times before the Conquest of Mexico.
Article from Patronato de la Alhambra about Nazari smoking pipes (from the Sultanate or Kingdom of Granada) and photos of pipes from approximately 900 AD to near 1500 AD:

Although the use of hashish or Indian hemp was forbidden in al-Andalus, its consumption must have been commonplace judging by the smoking pipes of this period that have come down to us. It is not known when it began to be consumed. There are already some examples of pipes from the Caliphate period, such as those preserved in the Museo Arqueológico y Etnológico de Córdoba, like this example in the shape of a ship's prow found in Espejo or this other boat-shaped pile found in a Cordovan street.
In the Nasrid period, between the 13th and 15th centuries, it is known with certainty that the habit of smoking a pipe was common, as shown by the growing number of examples preserved in relation to previous periods. This is also attested to by the accounts of figures of the time, such as the religious Ibn Jamis Muhammad al-Ruayni, or the literati Ibn 'Asim al-Garnati and Ibn al Khatib, who mention this subject. The latter refers to some spaces in Granada during the period of Sultan Muhammad VI in which hashish was consumed. In this article we talk about the smoking pipes of the Alhambra Museum and, specifically, the specimens that can be seen in Room VII of the permanent exhibition. There is a wide variety of Hispano-Muslim smoking pipes, from simple spherical bowl shapes to pipes with more complex exterior decoration. But in general, they all follow a very similar model, change shapes, change size or decoration, but maintain the same structure. In general, they can be divided into two parts: a stove or bowl, which is the part where the substance to be smoked was burned; and an embouchure, a conduit that served as a draft and where the mouthpiece fitted. The nozzle would be quite thin, judging by the thickness of the mouthpiece, and would end up in a truncated cone shape, making it easier to suck through. These nozzles would have been made of an organic material, possibly wood or cane, so there is no archaeological record." (...)


https://www.alhambra-patronato.es/p...bFOUsmrcUq9e_3ljyPolQ8xlCISWoOPMWMBMvsmTFIsfQ