The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

[jidoka]

So I am dumb indulge me. Are you saying the ec on your chicken compost may be 0.5 ec? If so you need to let it go another yr and chill it out by adding carbon

 

[growingcrazy]

.

 

[jidoka]

600 ppm on what scale?

 

[growingcrazy]

M3, k3 process from spectrum.

I am getting ready to bounce everything back over to MSU.

I got a deer in headlights response when I asked about how SA tests the peat based soils here in Michigan.

 

[brendon420]

take it as a theory

but i have been putting cactus steaks in my soil mixes for my outdoor plants

and they have been a source of constant watering.

i just checked some mixes i had left for maybe 5-6 weeks.

top 3 inches soil boneee dry...under that

all moisture and worms...

like i said,,

take it as a theory.. until you see it work

 

[ledo]

What if...

What if...

The most bang for your buck could be had by simply watering better? Perfect micro ratios, blends, cec, ca to da moon... all to the wayside if too wet or dry...

Foliar always a friend

GC, great thread buddy, breakdowns, math and so on

Watch them cactai rotting in the ground friend, u don’t want them top 3” bone dry either

 

[ledo]

The peat based container mix that I use and posted, has a ratio of 5 parts peat, 1 part chicken compost, 1 part perlite and has a tested value of over 600 ppm P, 250 Mg and 180 K with no other amendments. Thats what I was trying to say. If Im trying to make money, I run a peat/compost/perl @ 5/1/1 ratio...If I am working with soil and trying different techniques, I like to use my notill bed. It shows the downfalls of the LOS/no-till system high in EWC.

My chicken compost is stored under roof for 18 months. turned often when fresh, less once well composted. I put a fair amount of bone meal back into my piles.

I no longer use any type of vegetable waste directly in the piles. Everything passes through a chicken first. Helps with the Na and Mg.

I’m pretty sure focusing as much of your process around you chickens is what you do, makes perfect sense and most if not all of us should be envious of

 

[bsgospel]

No shit! I may never have a compost as time-tailored or well kept as that. I'm looking at lawn clippings and apple cores, if I'm lucky lol.

Before you sent in the Week 10 sample, how long had it been since you properly fed- either a PK boost or Flower base? Lets talk about that lower P number. Had it simply been spent by the plant at that point or is the test leaving something out that we can't see? Your feed should have that a tick higher, no? (available or not)

 

[jidoka]

So in the week 10 soil you really do not want a "PK" boost. You want a soluble P boost. In every grow I see K can start to accumulate quickly in tissue the last 3 weeks or so. And the plant will start storing it in the bottom leaf...it does not need the boost...plus when they ash it for the test it will be blacker the more K it is holding. And excess is a pest/disease invitation just when the plant is at its most vulnerable anyways.

Based on that low NH4 number in the soil you could use some MAP or some TSP.

I do have soil tests for a few of the major cocos. IMO it is pretty useless for anything other than small pots fed hydroponically. All of them are the same...low Ca, high K and worst of all high Cl. Even the so called inland cocos have high Cl.

And if you load gypsum and don't use enough water to complete the cation exchanges you will cause lock outs from the Ca plus you have driven up another anion...SO4, which isn't as bad as Cl but it still competes with P.

It actually gets better over time but nobody reuses it. Makes you a little sick watching all of that carbon getting hauled to a landfill where you know a lot of it is gonna be volatilized into an atmosphere that damn sure don't need it.

Peat is a bit harder to use cause you gotta learn to buffer the natural acidity and you better understand the alkalinity of your water. Building decisions into big grows just makes the possibility of the occasional bad decision more likely

I find myself happier rocking a heavy soil LOS but it aint the future of big weed unless field grows get allowed...hemp though that is how I would go.

 

[growingcrazy]

No shit! I may never have a compost as time-tailored or well kept as that. I'm looking at lawn clippings and apple cores, if I'm lucky lol.

Before you sent in the Week 10 sample, how long had it been since you properly fed- either a PK boost or Flower base? Lets talk about that lower P number. Had it simply been spent by the plant at that point or is the test leaving something out that we can't see? Your feed should have that a tick higher, no? (available or not)

No feeds after week 6. I should have hit them with P. The plants that are vegging right now received a 125 soil ppm dose of P watered in after transplant...thats 250 PPA, no a solution number...Solution was probably 4-4500 ppm P...lol They loved it.

The EC has me not feeding like I normally would. This bed is a bitch to flush. No drain in that room.

So in the week 10 soil you really do not want a "PK" boost. You want a soluble P boost. In every grow I see K can start to accumulate quickly in tissue the last 3 weeks or so. And the plant will start storing it in the bottom leaf...it does not need the boost...plus when they ash it for the test it will be blacker the more K it is holding. And excess is a pest/disease invitation just when the plant is at its most vulnerable anyways.

Based on that low NH4 number in the soil you could use some MAP or some TSP.

I do have soil tests for a few of the major cocos. IMO it is pretty useless for anything other than small pots fed hydroponically. All of them are the same...low Ca, high K and worst of all high Cl. Even the so called inland cocos have high Cl.

And if you load gypsum and don't use enough water to complete the cation exchanges you will cause lock outs from the Ca plus you have driven up another anion...SO4, which isn't as bad as Cl but it still competes with P.

It actually gets better over time but nobody reuses it. Makes you a little sick watching all of that carbon getting hauled to a landfill where you know a lot of it is gonna be volatilized into an atmosphere that damn sure don't need it.

Peat is a bit harder to use cause you gotta learn to buffer the natural acidity and you better understand the alkalinity of your water. Building decisions into big grows just makes the possibility of the occasional bad decision more likely

I find myself happier rocking a heavy soil LOS but it aint the future of big weed unless field grows get allowed...hemp though that is how I would go.

That last run I gave them the last K at the end of week 5, after seeing the week 4 results. I anticipated buildup. The lower buds don't metabolize the k as quickly unless they are in direct sunlight. Another reason to harvest in succession...

NH4 generally comes from a small does of fresh chicken manure. I put a couple tablespoons at the base of each plant. Still working on that as I don't know the NH4 amount in the fresh poo.

What NH4 number do you like to see at start of flower?

I asked about the coco because I can't stand seeing the dumpster loads going to landfill...I can't believe nobody has set up something to take all that shit in...so much life left in it...

After this run, I am ditching the bed...going back to containers so I can flush them out...

Also wanted to make note... Day 8 plants vegging in the bed, No lockouts...no issues... Fed them with a base flower mix, 95-100-100-40-225. Hit them with a 250 PPA (125 ppm) dose of TSP that was dissolved in water and then watered in. Still need to get the MN up above 100. I will let them veg another week and flip. I think I will just run my flower base mix and a P boost this run. See how she does.

I only hit 2.2/1k last run, lower than usual.

Anybody want to straighten me out on the 13% K that Slowed called me out on? I can't come up with those numbers no matter how I do it, Even if I act like some of those elements don't exist. The only thing that comes close is Spectrums version where they disregard the excess calcium.

In a situation where the base is over saturated, I don't like to just assume the high Ca is magically no longer. Without leaching it is still in the container, still filling electrical charges. A balance of excess is still a balance when an exchange site needs replenished...is it not?

I have pulled samples here in Michigan with over saturated CEC base elements, is this not an occurrence elsewhere?

Hemp is what my plans are in the future for my farm. Unless legalization is a totally different system here, I don't want anything to do with it. A few miles from Lake Michigan coast...230+ sunny days a year...That big lake climate battery makes great late season finishes if the rains hold out.


Good to see you Led05! These last storms have been kicking my ass...hopefully you are fairing well.

 

[ledo]

No feeds after week 6. I should have hit them with P. The plants that are vegging right now received a 125 soil ppm dose of P watered in after transplant...thats 250 PPA, no a solution number...Solution was probably 4-4500 ppm P...lol They loved it.

The EC has me not feeding like I normally would. This bed is a bitch to flush. No drain in that room.



That last run I gave them the last K at the end of week 5, after seeing the week 4 results. I anticipated buildup. The lower buds don't metabolize the k as quickly unless they are in direct sunlight. Another reason to harvest in succession...

NH4 generally comes from a small does of fresh chicken manure. I put a couple tablespoons at the base of each plant. Still working on that as I don't know the NH4 amount in the fresh poo.

What NH4 number do you like to see at start of flower?

I asked about the coco because I can't stand seeing the dumpster loads going to landfill...I can't believe nobody has set up something to take all that shit in...so much life left in it...

After this run, I am ditching the bed...going back to containers so I can flush them out...

Also wanted to make note... Day 8 plants vegging in the bed, No lockouts...no issues... Fed them with a base flower mix, 95-100-100-40-225. Hit them with a 250 PPA (125 ppm) dose of TSP that was dissolved in water and then watered in. Still need to get the MN up above 100. I will let them veg another week and flip. I think I will just run my flower base mix and a P boost this run. See how she does.

I only hit 2.2/1k last run, lower than usual.

Anybody want to straighten me out on the 13% K that Slowed called me out on? I can't come up with those numbers no matter how I do it, Even if I act like some of those elements don't exist. The only thing that comes close is Spectrums version where they disregard the excess calcium.

In a situation where the base is over saturated, I don't like to just assume the high Ca is magically no longer. Without leaching it is still in the container, still filling electrical charges. A balance of excess is still a balance when an exchange site needs replenished...is it not?

I have pulled samples here in Michigan with over saturated CEC base elements, is this not an occurrence elsewhere?

Hemp is what my plans are in the future for my farm. Unless legalization is a totally different system here, I don't want anything to do with it. A few miles from Lake Michigan coast...230+ sunny days a year...That big lake climate battery makes great late season finishes if the rains hold out.


Good to see you Led05! These last storms have been kicking my ass...hopefully you are fairing well.

last year this time I couldn't keep up with the Asparagus, this year it hasn't even broke the soil / snow line..... no spring yet over here, has snowed last 4 days in a row, at times heavy... luckily the sun is too strong this time of year for it to stay around long but muddy wet snowy ground limits near everything I need to be doing...... It tis what it is ! inside and in the GH things are rocking, apple trees going in ground this weekend - doing what we can

your location is great for a lot of things AG related - the decent sun with the good soils and precip, not many places like that

 

[maxmurder]

Has anyone tested Sunshine #4?
Looking for iron levels

 

[bsgospel]

Grown with it but not tested. Not impressed. Somehow the heaviest but least dense peat I've dealt with. Other brands I find can get me 14 five gallon pots but I could only get about nine out of the sunshine. Bizarre stuff.

 

[ledo]

Grown with it but not tested. Not impressed. Somehow the heaviest but least dense peat I've dealt with. Other brands I find can get me 14 five gallon pots but I could only get about nine out of the sunshine. Bizarre stuff.

it was more moist in the bag than other brands your used to using, more moisture, less compression = less peat but same weight, less full pots - gimmicky, especially when the real cost is bagging it, shipping it, storing it and paying someone to sell it -

 

[jidoka]

Has anyone tested Sunshine #4?
Looking for iron levels

Fe 39 ppm
Al 33 ppm

A single test though. I don't know how consistent it is lot to lot.

75% Ca and 3.5% K.

 

[Arnold.]

Fantastic GrowingCrazy! How could I have misted this thread?

I've yet to take it all in, but it's running too late atm

You are a true gent. Sharing that detailed information is remarkable.

Hats off

 

[maxmurder]

Thanks Jidoka

 

[jidoka]

Anybody ever achieve 1-3–1? I have been reading Arden Anderson who suggests x-4-1 for forage. Is there more carbohydrate in bud or grass?

 

[Arnold.]

I'd like to make myself a good peat based mix.

Your compost is composted chicken poop, right?
I guess a plant based compost pile will be less nutrient dense, isn't it?

I'd like to use leaf mold instead of composted manure because I have a steady supply of leaf mold and not of manure.
Should I keep the 5-1-1 peat-leaf mold-perlite ratio?

I'm ready to get my mix tested. Which test is adequate? K3 Spectrum?
Or can I just get the leaf mold tested?
How does an average peat comes out of tests? Low nutrition levels?

Damn! lot of questions on a small space

Looking forward to my first full grow that follows the spirit of this thread.

 

[jidoka]

Here is a different suggestion. Get 4 big bales of ss4. Add 4 25 lb bags of sup r green chicken shit and a bag (50 lbs) of either soft rock or steamed bone mill.

Water it in 2-3 weeks before planting.

Monitor EC and use a 1-2-1 fert as needed to maintain at 0.7-1