The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

[growingcrazy]

That really is the goal... let's make it happen.

Did you make multiple mixes or just adjusting single ingredients per pot? Do you have any data on what went into them? I will post my mix, I just don't have it here in front of me. Includes micros and all.

Paradox, In a peat based medium what is the testing method of choice? Are any of the K-series tests actually helpful in a low pH peat based medium?

 

[paradoxlost]

I'm not using spectrum for testing anymore, Bill is slightly retarded

 

[growingcrazy]

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[paradoxlost]

You worked/work in a lab, yes? That was my reason for directing towards you. Bill is usually rather willing to give up information on anything non-proprietary, which is fairly nice. You still have to decide what to do with that information...lol

Let me clarify. Is the M3, P1 or [email protected] worthwhile to test a medium for nutrition that is peat based or peat/compost based?

On a peat/perlite mix, what is the proper test?

On a peat/compost/perlite mix, what is the proper test?

Bill is quite willing to copy and paste stuff from their website into emails that vaguely answer your question. Also he doesn't remember previous emails very well. Also he isn't helpful with questions like the one you have cause he doesn't really know I don't think. He will recommend tests than after the test be like oh yeah that's not for your situation even though I said it was two days ago. He's nice enough but yea I'm switching out.


The M3 is for total nutrients, the Brady test is for plant available, AA @8.2 is for carbonate heavy soils. If you don't have carbonates or high P and high Fe don't use AA l, irregardless of slows thread recommendation. I blindly followed the advice in that thread because I felt like the experience level in that thread was higher than my logic level, and I wasted $300 on testing rather than following my instincts. My mistake, I am 26 and sometimes the whole respect your elders mentality lingers in my consciousness when in reality that is irrelevant.

 

[Avenger]

iirc, biggreg answered the question in his thread, he did the work comparing a compulsive exchange procedure to the summation methods for CEC on an organic soil-less mix.

its a fun read.

 

[growingcrazy]

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[Dawn Patrol]

That really is the goal... let's make it happen.

Did you make multiple mixes or just adjusting single ingredients per pot? Do you have any data on what went into them? I will post my mix, I just don't have it here in front of me. Includes micros and all.

Please post your mix, would love to see that!

the main thing I took away from Slow's thread was to get as much calcium into young plants as possible and then raise K as they reach sexual maturity. Drop K and raise calcium again as they go into flower and then drop calcium and raise K during the latter part of flower.

I added 2 cups of gypsum/borax to each 3-4 cu ft batch of peat/perlite (70/30) base mix I made up.

Experimentation was mostly the top dressing gypsum and borax (6 grams of borax to every pound of gypsum) and a foliar application of potassium sulfate in late flower.

This was all complicated by switching from organics to salt based nutes for the first time in 30 years, and pushing the limits of those feeds under constantly changing weather conditions.

To recap the good: floppy, viny strains had much more stem/stalk strength with the additional calcium and I saw almost no hollow stems in any of the plants I harvested. Root masses were large and impressive and the plants wanted a ton of water. Flowers were, for the most part, larger and more solid and when I got the foliar potassium right, the flower size was noticeable and significant.

To recap the bad: where I applied too much gypsum and nutes, I saw all sorts of issues with nutrient lockouts and leaf burn. this was also complicated by pH issues, so where I had three identical flowering clones, often one was often just beautiful while the other two would show excesses or deficiencies.


I grew over 20 different strains this year there was no "dialing in" of the medium/feed. Some phenos handled the feed, some were burnt and crispy. In general I overfed everything but where conditions aligned, I saw some very nice results.

 

[Badfishy1]

Thanks for continuing GC. Much appreciated

 

[growingcrazy]

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[growingcrazy]

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[redlaser]

Nice posts growincrazy, lots of useful info and ratios. What is the TSP by the way?

 

[bsgospel]

Triple Super Phosphate 0-45-0 or 0-46-0

Great way to kick it off GC.


I've been looking at the tsp and calphos, too. Was thinking of starting with a little bit of both in the mix, watering more often with calphos and leaving the TSP to do its thing over time. Which seems to be in line with your watering and boost schedule but I can see myself getting greedy and going heavy in both the mix and feed. It'll be my Tiger Bloom disaster of 2011 all over again! Lol

The notepad I've been compiling mix and feed ideas here on my desk looks strikingly similar to your mix. Think I'm headed in the right direction. I might end up with a slightly different micro balance and I'd like to get some biochar in there, too. It's becoming a Slow-meets-Coot mishmash. I can hear both camps now: What? Why?!

 

[growingcrazy]

Thanks BSG.

I listed the TSP and Calphos depending on what folks choose to use. I get better results with all Calphos in the mix and in feeds, but it is more expensive and harder to get.

I will post the PPM of those solutions later to make it easier on everyone.

On a real soil, I do feed and mix soil as we have been talking about in the SlowN thread and care for it Coot/LOS style.

Soilless doesn't seem to respond the same without some real soil in the mix, when cared for like real soil.

 

[bsgospel]

On a real soil, I do feed and mix soil as we have been talking about in the SlowN thread and care for it Coot/LOS style.

Soilless doesn't seem to respond the same without some real soil in the mix, when cared for like real soil.

And this is where I need to flex some more. I've been doing soilless for so long and with ridiculous CEC considerations that I want to build something that not only sustains for years but is something that I can also steer and make quick turns if I have to.

Here's to not burning the whole thing down with iron and copper sulfate!

 

[VortexPower420]

I'm trying to do the slow/cc combo but hate to call it that.

I try and balance most things that go into my soil and let the microbes figure out the rest.

Seems to be working pretty well. Still ironing out some kinks.

 

[growingcrazy]

I'm trying to do the slow/cc combo but hate to call it that.

I try and balance most things that go into my soil and let the microbes figure out the rest.

Seems to be working pretty well. Still ironing out some kinks.

What type of kinks are you running into?

I am not a big fan of the CC mix. Too much EWC for my liking, which brings along many excesses.

The other key with a CC style mix is watering. Very few people that I have witnessed running a mix that heavy on EWC know how to water it properly. It just holds moisture for far too long.


For those of you with questions...ask them. You are not alone in any question you may have.

After doing this a while I may forget to mention a detail or point just simply because it is part of the routine now... Speak up and we will do our best.

 

[bsgospel]

Yep- unless I fed those worms myself, I can't trust it. There's only 1500 other sources of N or bacteria. I think the neem meal is groovy, though.

 

[growingcrazy]

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[growingcrazy]

Yep- unless I fed those worms myself, I can't trust it. There's only 1500 other sources of N or bacteria. I think the neem meal is groovy, though.

We have a worm farm in my area that pushes product in any garden related store it can... highest Mg and Na I have ever witnessed from castings... So many people chasing their tale by purchasing a "good local" product...

 

[bsgospel]

For the blend at work (peat/perlite) we use the kelp4less micro pack + whatever stage of bloom mix- not sure where those get us, but the micro is roughly-
Mn - 3.6 ppm~
Fe/Mg - 7 ppm~
B/Mo - ? but it's not nearly enough. I find boron def all the time by week 4.


At home, coco/perlite, Jacks/Everis Peters 5-11-26 equivalent. (ppm)
Fe - 3
Mn - .5
Zn - .15
Cu - .15
B - .5
Mo - .1
However I use slightly less than the label rate so those numbers are a little high. For coco, it's dope. No issues with those metals/things are super healthy.

For the soil/coco/compost in the back yard we're building I want to use the BioAg TM7 they have at customhydro.
Sulfur(S)........................2%
Copper (Cu)............0.31%
Boron (B).................0.37%
Iron (FE)......................1.2%
Cobalt (Co).............0.05%
Manganese (Mn)......1.2%
Molybdenum (M0)..0.1%
Zinc................................0.7%

I like that Fe:Mn, copper should be under 2ppm, and it's affordable at a gram/gallon