J
JollyGreen
Beautiful Master Kush Friction,Looks Great.
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the KUSH thread
- Thread starter OG bub
- Start date
- Status
how to enjoy hash from the Hindu Kush, Pakistani style
http://youtube.com/watch?v=odZBSavffbk
Ya Ali! long live Sufi culture - this is real Islam
enjoy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=odZBSavffbk
Ya Ali! long live Sufi culture - this is real Islam
enjoy
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A
Afghanicus
Interesting video. It reminds me of this documentary i saw in northern india with these sufi mystics smoking charas on a pilgrimage and dancing around in a trance state in much the same way. Another one i saw was called "mystic iran" and showed the sufi mystics of iran doing much the same thing though i didn't see the iranian sufis smoking charas, but they may have omitted that part in the documentary. It interests me alot even though i'm not a sufi, i do classify myself as being mystic.
salaam
salaam
Rolling_Stoned
Member
hello, great thread! I was wondering if anyone has heard any scuttlebutt on Nirvana's Hindu Kush? I hope i didn't just miss it, i tried to read the whole thread but it's a big'n.
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bigsmoke386
Member
holy shit
G
Guest
How does (sensi seeds) Hindu Kush yield? Are there any phenos to look for? Any place to read about??
smokaholik
Active member
salaaam my brothers, i ope u r all well and happy, ive qiuckly read thru this thread and i must say a thankyou to OG BUB for starting it, how ever there r some certain things i have to disagree with, first of i am pakistani pathaan, my family range from all over the tribal provinces and into afgahnistan and i have spent 6 months of every year of my life in the tribal areas, have spent the last 8 years working in gilgit and chitral , ( ghol national park ) as a volontary wildlife officer working hand in hand with the WWF in protection of the moatian leopards of asia, i can speak the mian languages of pakistan wich is urdu and punjabi and i also speak pashto and hinko wicht the tribal people use
now the poinf that the hindu kush moantians and this area of the wolrd being very dry and arid and litlle vegetation is tottaly wrong, lower swat valley and ayubia bourboun chitral etc r so luch and grreen it is unbeblivable, withmany rivers that run thru them irrgating the land, the main problem that this area faces and i say this as i personally have worked very closely with the goverment and local communtieson this problem and that is deforestation, one the lovely valleys and forests r being chopped by local communties as a source of fule and biulding wich in itself is sustainable, however certain international logging compmanies r starting to chop down huge areas of forest and woodland wich house many howks birds and animals, also as the areas are very monationaous the eradiction of forests means that landslide become even more common. The only part of the NWFP that i would class as arid is the khyber agency along jamrud road and leading to the blue ali masjid( mosque) where the sulaemani moantians r, here it is slightly dryer with less flowers and vegetation and more rocky hasrh land, as u can see in the pic below, altought this area is dry and hour drive on all sides will take u to lush vallyes on the west is tirah valley and kohat south takes u to dara north towards chitral and east towards islamabad
the khyber agency, no authority just tribal law
about 20 minds drive turns into this south west
does this look dry and arid
my hotel view of the real hindu kush
as u can see, lovely greeen lush and greener than switzerland lol
howvwer the efeect of of global worming and falsh floods is becoming a problem to with the melting of baltoro and siachen glaceie( the biggest outside of the poles)
also i hear that people say the genetics r not the same as they used to be, first of can i say to tom hill broadleafed varieties that where a dime a dozen still r infact there even cheaper, if u think of old american growers for example, some of these guys have got clnes or genetic material from at least 20 years back, like hashplant or nl5 watever, in a country whwre it is illegal to produce it, now what makes u think that growing communties that have lasted longer than a few decades in areas that the species indica most probaly originated, dont take pride in there work,dont know abut genetic preservation and selection , come on people this is there income and work, of course they have mastered it, and in every lical communtity there r markets, for example there is bara market in tirah valley where canaabiss seeds r sold, the best cannbis seeds command a highger prices and the not so good ones r giving freee but mostl used as birdseed, no even tho sbags of the best seeds r not expensive in western terms of money, in a area were seeds r free and plenty the best qaulity seeds can cost a forune to the localpeople in terms of ther ecurrency, but still most lilfarmers will spend the money and buy the seeds rather than get lewsser ones for free. THE AGE old rule of starting with great genetics is the best start is not just a western rule but has been used by the local farmers for years,come on people give these farmers the due and credit the deserve , and comments that the weed aint the same out there or not lik pre 70 makes me angry and luaght, due u know that the oldder afghani men from around 70s used to say the same thing about the weed from 1950 etc, so every generatuonsays the same, now tell me unlike thailand that has had dea trying to kill the species on a mass level,hwre ehas this happned in agfhanistan and pakistan
nowqhere
asi stated earlier the fat leafed variety ios stil a dime a dozen out here in this part of the world, but as its so coman its nothing out of the ordinary to us and we can acces seed at netime, howveer to find gentic anomilies and treuly exotic phenos is what im after not the ordinary for this type of thwe world but the extraordinary
for xample the pine tar kush that htc sells is a paki line, howveer there is a certain sativa pheno to be found in there, does this mean that its not paki or indica or kush? the plants that i have have been chosen for there specialneess and uniquneess not the standard phones i fine daily but the sepecial as i states
and as i said these plants r from the hindu kush and although the shares similarietes between the afgahans there r not
broadleafe growing outside m friends shop wich is common as water in a dam
and righ tnext to that a sativa pheno my friend planted the seed of.
u see the sativa one is already flowering and putting out pistils where as the indica is still vegging in the same conditons, i thought it would be the other way round but just an example to show diversity
also ngapka i am curious to ure religion my friend as i am muslim and a 5th of the world is muslim and the muslim community would NOT class sufi as islam , yes it is tolerated in but let me say this THIS IS NOT REAL ISLAM, and i frankly casnt see y u say that, if u liek the idea or concept of sufi then fair enuff but for u to say categorically that this is real islam is bullshit, thats like me a non white spekaing for the white race saying that the KKK is what white people r really like, which is bull and everyone non white thinking that im corect, its ignorant
im sorry if my answers could not be understood and im a lil pressed for time as i just come back from pakistan and its time to open my fast, ill post more pix later of pakistan and the vallayes for u later
salaaam my brothers
now the poinf that the hindu kush moantians and this area of the wolrd being very dry and arid and litlle vegetation is tottaly wrong, lower swat valley and ayubia bourboun chitral etc r so luch and grreen it is unbeblivable, withmany rivers that run thru them irrgating the land, the main problem that this area faces and i say this as i personally have worked very closely with the goverment and local communtieson this problem and that is deforestation, one the lovely valleys and forests r being chopped by local communties as a source of fule and biulding wich in itself is sustainable, however certain international logging compmanies r starting to chop down huge areas of forest and woodland wich house many howks birds and animals, also as the areas are very monationaous the eradiction of forests means that landslide become even more common. The only part of the NWFP that i would class as arid is the khyber agency along jamrud road and leading to the blue ali masjid( mosque) where the sulaemani moantians r, here it is slightly dryer with less flowers and vegetation and more rocky hasrh land, as u can see in the pic below, altought this area is dry and hour drive on all sides will take u to lush vallyes on the west is tirah valley and kohat south takes u to dara north towards chitral and east towards islamabad
the khyber agency, no authority just tribal law
about 20 minds drive turns into this south west
does this look dry and arid
my hotel view of the real hindu kush
as u can see, lovely greeen lush and greener than switzerland lol
howvwer the efeect of of global worming and falsh floods is becoming a problem to with the melting of baltoro and siachen glaceie( the biggest outside of the poles)
also i hear that people say the genetics r not the same as they used to be, first of can i say to tom hill broadleafed varieties that where a dime a dozen still r infact there even cheaper, if u think of old american growers for example, some of these guys have got clnes or genetic material from at least 20 years back, like hashplant or nl5 watever, in a country whwre it is illegal to produce it, now what makes u think that growing communties that have lasted longer than a few decades in areas that the species indica most probaly originated, dont take pride in there work,dont know abut genetic preservation and selection , come on people this is there income and work, of course they have mastered it, and in every lical communtity there r markets, for example there is bara market in tirah valley where canaabiss seeds r sold, the best cannbis seeds command a highger prices and the not so good ones r giving freee but mostl used as birdseed, no even tho sbags of the best seeds r not expensive in western terms of money, in a area were seeds r free and plenty the best qaulity seeds can cost a forune to the localpeople in terms of ther ecurrency, but still most lilfarmers will spend the money and buy the seeds rather than get lewsser ones for free. THE AGE old rule of starting with great genetics is the best start is not just a western rule but has been used by the local farmers for years,come on people give these farmers the due and credit the deserve , and comments that the weed aint the same out there or not lik pre 70 makes me angry and luaght, due u know that the oldder afghani men from around 70s used to say the same thing about the weed from 1950 etc, so every generatuonsays the same, now tell me unlike thailand that has had dea trying to kill the species on a mass level,hwre ehas this happned in agfhanistan and pakistan
nowqhere
asi stated earlier the fat leafed variety ios stil a dime a dozen out here in this part of the world, but as its so coman its nothing out of the ordinary to us and we can acces seed at netime, howveer to find gentic anomilies and treuly exotic phenos is what im after not the ordinary for this type of thwe world but the extraordinary
for xample the pine tar kush that htc sells is a paki line, howveer there is a certain sativa pheno to be found in there, does this mean that its not paki or indica or kush? the plants that i have have been chosen for there specialneess and uniquneess not the standard phones i fine daily but the sepecial as i states
and as i said these plants r from the hindu kush and although the shares similarietes between the afgahans there r not
broadleafe growing outside m friends shop wich is common as water in a dam
and righ tnext to that a sativa pheno my friend planted the seed of.
u see the sativa one is already flowering and putting out pistils where as the indica is still vegging in the same conditons, i thought it would be the other way round but just an example to show diversity
also ngapka i am curious to ure religion my friend as i am muslim and a 5th of the world is muslim and the muslim community would NOT class sufi as islam , yes it is tolerated in but let me say this THIS IS NOT REAL ISLAM, and i frankly casnt see y u say that, if u liek the idea or concept of sufi then fair enuff but for u to say categorically that this is real islam is bullshit, thats like me a non white spekaing for the white race saying that the KKK is what white people r really like, which is bull and everyone non white thinking that im corect, its ignorant
im sorry if my answers could not be understood and im a lil pressed for time as i just come back from pakistan and its time to open my fast, ill post more pix later of pakistan and the vallayes for u later
salaaam my brothers
Alfred-cannaria
Member
Jambala said:
Good question, i hope that some master of kush can help us
. I only know that it´s a pure indica strain and i saw a pic of this on the principal page of this forum.
G
Guest
Great insight somka, I hope I dident piss you off with some of my questions earlyer. I was just trying to figure out why we arent seeing the biutifull broadleafs we used to. you ansewered a lot of my ? about the farmers and there thoughts about hoe the grow.
hiya Smokaholik,
As always very interesting to read your posts...
on the subject of the Hindu Kush being arid - well to be honest I think this just shows how subjective our various perceptions of the world are: as a Northern European who grew up in Wales - about as wet and green as it gets - I can assure you to my eyes all those pics above genuinely look very dry and pretty dusty, even with the vegeatation... also if you check my ramblings on Chitral, I did make it pretty clear that the valleys floors themselves, and the irrigated areas, are all very green.. wherever there is water there is green... but compared to say Uttaranchal in India, it is a very different picture, but no less beautiful that is for sure... I am yet to make it to Swat which is I hear totally gorgeous, but I do hope to one of these days
As for the claims made by some Westerners (none of whom seem to have visted these areas, or not within the last three or four decades, or at all) that squat broad-leafed indicas are no longer to be found: this is what I call "myth making"... myth making which goes hand-in-hand with the interests of the seedybiz industry... it's only to be expected really... but even the slightest familiarity with the history, culture and politics of the region will make it clear that it is nothing more than myth... myth which goes up in smoke in no time: hopefully Mazar, Chitral or Tirah smoke, or even Sherberghan soon enough I hope
and for all those "it ain't like it was in the '60s/'70s" people - I ask them, what will have changed in the FATA during all this time? or in Upper Swat? nothing except maybe more charas being produced to meet the swelling demand
And the idea that the Soviet invasion could somehow have screwed up the Afghan gene pool is arguably one of the funniest bullshits I ever heard - especially when it is widely known that the Soviets themselves were deeply involved in drug smuggling (north through Tajikistan etc.) ... some people even claim the Soviets messed up the gene pool in Chitral lol... quite how they managed such a feat I have no idea... add to this that the more instabilty there is in these regions the more likely it is that rural communites have to resort to planting either cannabis or opium, and you can see that the "war destroyed the cannabis gene pool" thing is just a load of self-serving bollocks
OK rant over
Ngakpa
p.s. Smokaholik - on the subject of religion, I profess no particular belief, but maybe the formulation I have seen which comes closest to what I believe is the "Deep Agnosticism" articulated by Stephen Batchelor... also Smokaholik, I'm sorry if my post about Sufis irritated you - my concern is merely to make Westerners aware of the diveristy of culture in Pakistan and Afghanistan, in particular of the widespread culture of tolerance, which we hear so little about... clearly the Sufis do not have a monopoly on tolerant Islam, but my feeling is that theirs is a particularly open, visible and joyful celebration of Islam, in particular love, peace and sanctity - a million miles from the joyless mullahs who seem to dominate the Western media of late:
a beautiful photographic essay
http://www.aaronhuey.com/pages/portfolio.html
As always very interesting to read your posts...
on the subject of the Hindu Kush being arid - well to be honest I think this just shows how subjective our various perceptions of the world are: as a Northern European who grew up in Wales - about as wet and green as it gets - I can assure you to my eyes all those pics above genuinely look very dry and pretty dusty, even with the vegeatation... also if you check my ramblings on Chitral, I did make it pretty clear that the valleys floors themselves, and the irrigated areas, are all very green.. wherever there is water there is green... but compared to say Uttaranchal in India, it is a very different picture, but no less beautiful that is for sure... I am yet to make it to Swat which is I hear totally gorgeous, but I do hope to one of these days
As for the claims made by some Westerners (none of whom seem to have visted these areas, or not within the last three or four decades, or at all) that squat broad-leafed indicas are no longer to be found: this is what I call "myth making"... myth making which goes hand-in-hand with the interests of the seedybiz industry... it's only to be expected really... but even the slightest familiarity with the history, culture and politics of the region will make it clear that it is nothing more than myth... myth which goes up in smoke in no time: hopefully Mazar, Chitral or Tirah smoke, or even Sherberghan soon enough I hope
and for all those "it ain't like it was in the '60s/'70s" people - I ask them, what will have changed in the FATA during all this time? or in Upper Swat? nothing except maybe more charas being produced to meet the swelling demand
And the idea that the Soviet invasion could somehow have screwed up the Afghan gene pool is arguably one of the funniest bullshits I ever heard - especially when it is widely known that the Soviets themselves were deeply involved in drug smuggling (north through Tajikistan etc.) ... some people even claim the Soviets messed up the gene pool in Chitral lol... quite how they managed such a feat I have no idea... add to this that the more instabilty there is in these regions the more likely it is that rural communites have to resort to planting either cannabis or opium, and you can see that the "war destroyed the cannabis gene pool" thing is just a load of self-serving bollocks
OK rant over
Ngakpa
p.s. Smokaholik - on the subject of religion, I profess no particular belief, but maybe the formulation I have seen which comes closest to what I believe is the "Deep Agnosticism" articulated by Stephen Batchelor... also Smokaholik, I'm sorry if my post about Sufis irritated you - my concern is merely to make Westerners aware of the diveristy of culture in Pakistan and Afghanistan, in particular of the widespread culture of tolerance, which we hear so little about... clearly the Sufis do not have a monopoly on tolerant Islam, but my feeling is that theirs is a particularly open, visible and joyful celebration of Islam, in particular love, peace and sanctity - a million miles from the joyless mullahs who seem to dominate the Western media of late:
a beautiful photographic essay
http://www.aaronhuey.com/pages/portfolio.html
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A
Afghanicus
wide leaves hindu kush
wide leaves hindu kush
while on the subject of wide leaves, have a look at this male hindu kush that i found from a pack of sensi seeds. Isn't he gorgeous? he will surely be doing some pollinating.
wide leaves hindu kush
while on the subject of wide leaves, have a look at this male hindu kush that i found from a pack of sensi seeds. Isn't he gorgeous? he will surely be doing some pollinating.
G
Guest
Afghanicus said:while on the subject of wide leaves, have a look at this male hindu kush that i found from a pack of sensi seeds. Isn't he gorgeous? he will surely be doing some pollinating.
I'm going to pick some up in the next year, how many packs do you think for the right moms? i'm not sure of the phenos i should look for, any direction? great picture.
A
Afghanicus
I managed to get a pack of 15 which this seedbank still had in stock. Now they come in packs of 10. From that pack of 15 about 2/3 were females and they are all looking good and healthy and potentionally all good mums. I will be keeping the seeds of the best female/females pollinated by the above pictured male. Most are quite uniform but one female has alot more narrow leaves and buds appear more sparse (must be a recessive gene that produced this phenotype). All the others are typical pure indica in growth with wide leaves and basically no stretch. They are already starting to pack on the resin early on in flower. I'd say grab two packs and you should get some decent mums for sure.
707Corridor
Member
Hey whats up everyone! Thanks OgBubs for opening this discussion, and thanks to everyone for finally getting the post in line, I love readin about lineages and totally understood Og's frustration about Kush.
All I hope is that one day I can make the journey out to the Hindu Kush Mountains!
All I hope is that one day I can make the journey out to the Hindu Kush Mountains!
G
Guest
Afghanicus said:
thanks, i assumed they wouldn't vary too much since it's supposed to be pretty stable.
LOL, I don't ENTIRELY doubt that seeds of high quality broadleaf can still be found in the region, but the odds seemed to have done a 180, no? A excellent frame of reference will ALWAYS be the numerous higher quality varieties grown in the pacific northwest of the Americas 25-30 years ago, & I learned a long time ago to be skeptical of any other. There was crap around then too & I don't believe that Afghan #1 & the like should be mentioned in the same sentence, not by any stretch of the imagination. I hope a few good Thais show up again too, but I know way better than to be holding my breath. No, the quality has gone way far downhill worldwide, & it's the swelling demand that seems to have played the larger part in driving this. I truly wish this was only a myth, but it's not.
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TomHill said:
No... with all due respect Tom - have you been to Pakistan or Afghanistan?
...sorry fella, but I'm seeing a conspicuous lack of rationale let alone evidence there in your post....
Given that nothing has changed in FATA and given that the vast bulk of the growing regions of the Pashtun Belt and Northern Afghanistan are -as always- effectively beyond the reach of national or international law - then what exactly is causing this alleged decline... too much growing????
So we've gone from the Soviet Invasion of '79 - '89 being the problem to the problem now being that too much is being grown?
Smokaholik has already given a sketch of purchasing seeds in the bazaars...
To put the discussion further in perspective: many of the same characters who supplied seed to the first Westerners are still in business - not to mention the Pashtuns who actually traveled to the West Coast too with some of the earlier Western growers...
... and then as Smokaholik has mentioned - what of places like Barra etc.? When did you last visit one of the Bazaars? Have you ever?
TomHill said:
Says who - Wilson et al.?
I wouldn't base my opinion of the homelands of the indicas and the tribes that have grown these strains since time immemorial on the claims of a few would-be monopolists in Holland...
or on crap which washes up in Amsterdam by the name of "Afghan Black" or "Paki Black"
the idea that Pashtuns and other ethnic groups just wouldn't know the value of these strains and would simply let them disappear like that... it's laughable, given just how central charas is in life in the home of the indicas - and moreover, the value which is placed by smokers there on quality, the pride which is taken in it
Credit where credit is due, nothing more is being asked for I don't think...
TomHill said:
so on the one hand commercial production is said to have been responsible for the superb ganja coming out of Isaan (Thailand) during the '60s and '70s, and the lack thereof for the perceived decline in Thai grass since then
and on the other hand an excess of commercial production is responsible for the supposed decline in quality in Afghanistan and NWFP since the '70s....
none of this seems to be holding together, either as a picture or as an argument
who are the experts behind these generalisations - do they speak Thai or Pashto; how long do they spend in these countries - two weeks? a month? who do they know? how do they put together these grand visions - from trips to Koh Chang and Manali - lol?
I don't deny that there is plenty of crap hashish and ganja around in the world, but one thing I am sure of is that the view afforded of Afghanistan and Pakistan from Northern Europe and America is less than panoramic - that I see plenty of evidence for...
most of all what I see is evidence of the inability of people who spend two weeks in a country throwing cash around to score decent ganja and hash, not to mention seeds...
likewise - and this is aimed at no one in particular - I have eternal faith in the ability of Asians to spot an arsehole Westerner who is on the make... they have had plenty of practice at that over the past few centuries, that's for sure...
Ngakpa
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