the KUSH thread

[ngakpa]

I don't know that I can add more Grizz. In the late 70's-early 80's, broadleafed short plants that reeked of skunk & fit Clarkes description to a T were a dime a dozen out of the region, & the situation seems much different now.

the charas market is thriving over there - so is the same unchanged charas culture - in the Tribal Agencies so is the cultivation of charas etc. which has had no need to change since well before Partition... there are a lot of smokers to feed in Asia these days... the real need is a licensed system of production, distribution and sale

sorry if this post is a tad incoherent I am wired/mashed on Thai and too much coffee

IMHO strains in the Sacred Seeds catalogue like Kandahari, Tirah, Khyber Agency and also Afghani No. 1 and Deep Chunk are likely to originate as most of their names would suggest from growing regions of the 'Pashtun belt' area... there is plenty of planting and quality charas coming from these regions as anyone who is mad enough to visit will find out...

to just contextualise this for a second - I go with Zamalito on this and believe that Clarke was influenced by Schultes in his focus on the short and broad leafed indica var. afghanica, and the Western growing scene in turn... it is clear there are also more sativa-like drug strains in these regions - such diversity is what you would expect in to see in the range of cultivars from an ancient and complex growing region with totally insane geography and history

btw I have in a book at home the pic of Schultes with a Pashtun tribesman knelt over a short stocky broad leafed dense flowered indica with short internodes and good calyx to leaf ratio - and the plant is standing alone on a slope of scree... i.e. it is wild... ultimately escaped from cultivation I would guess

that said:

farmed broadleafed plants that meet Clarke's description are still a dime a dozen out there - in the growing regions of Swat Valley, in Tirah Valley, in the irrigated areas of Helmand and Kandahar - in exactly the same places they always were... and have been since well before the 80s... Hunza cultivars are also broad leaved

nb. Pashtun can be taken as exactly the same as Afghan if you are a Pashtun (word is same in Pashto, though in Urdu "Pathan" is used) cf. again the seven Tribal Agencies, the Pashtun belt and

from Dubi's post in the other Kush thread running now
"cf.
The SSSC 88/89 catalog: M30
It mentions a powerful inbred Tirah pakistani INDICA
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40920"
nb. there are also broad-leaved strains farmed in Hunza in the Karakoram mountains - no doubt these cultivars also have their routes in antiquity

back before 9/11 it was much more common in Western discourse about the region for Pashtun and Pakhtun to be treated as synonymous with Afghan... these days such words are drawing further apart, with an attempt to engineer a notion of Afghanistan as a home also for Tajiks, Hazaras and other ethnic groups...

nb. in the seven Tribal Agencies the only law is still the millenia old code of Pashtunwali...

my guess is the strains indigneous to Mazar and closer to Uzbek/Tajik influence do not fall under the squat var. afghanica category... an exception to that could be the strain used to produce the renowned Sheberghan variety of hashish... do not know about the appearance of this strain... the history of ethnic groups in these regions is complex, raising the possibility that the variety and origin of strains there could prove likewise

Chitrali Kushes are tall plants given the conditions- cf. the narrow-leafed pheno of the Nirvana Chitral hybrid... which goes back to Positronics and Sam... I think it's a fair bet that there is a narrow-leafed pheno in the original 70s accesion from Chitral - that is what the best hash from Yarkhun is made from... are also great smelling.... just like the easily acquired "Khyber Afghan"/Tirah hashish and Mazar hashish (cf. the drop in poppy cultivation in the North... the Pashtun/Afghan areas in Balkh... and what they are growing now instead of poppy... as ever)

the Yarkhun above is from wild plants via Mriko I would guess

as said the charas trade is still thriving and quality hashish and plants are still being grown - the whole charas infrastructure of Peshawar, Mazar, the Tribal Agencies, Helmand, Kabul, Kandahar - it is booming... the bazaars of the NWFP are there right now testifying to this for those who dare visit - Angrese beware lol!

Kaleem's post also says plenty on the Kush issue I think (Pathan = Pashtun btw)

[

I lived in NWFP(North Western Frontier Province) in Pakistan for 6-7 years and during that time I smoked nothing but the BEST local hashish from that area. Not only that but I am Pathan by etnicity and speak the local language Pashtho. I was able to see things that no western eyes could see like the process of how they make the hashish but thats another story.

I have sampled almost every "Kush" strain from online seedbanks that I could find and all of them have a skunk taste to them that does NOT remind me of what I smoked in Pakistan.

I have yet to sample a REAL Kush here in the states. Sorry but I think that most "Dutch and Canadian" Kushes are not the real Mcoy. If you have ever smoked Pakistani Charas then you know what Im talking about.

just to be clear "Paki black" as it is called by some is dirty imported garbage and bears no relation to the various varieties of charas available in the bazaars etc.

 

[Miss T]

OG bub and Tom Hill you are both an inspiration!
This is one of the best threads on ICmag, because of all the information, and look how many smart people have shared what they know.

~Misty~

 

[Guest]

Tom i am wondering why that old kush isent around now? as you stated back in the late 70s and 80s they were every where in cali. The first indica kush i ever saw came out of cali, a short medium leaf with small buds that were very resionus and had a clean undescribable taste and smell. When crossed with sativa i usally got that rks smell and taste, and some purple plants as well. It leads me to belive that the growers over there dont really put any thought into keeping there genitics pure, just randome pollination.

 

[Brother_Monk]

I don't think it's as random as you put it grizz. But I do believe, they let the plants pollinate on a large scale farming plot. This is not to say that pollen cannot float on winds as far as a thousand miles, but...it is unlikely that it does. Most pollen will only float on winds as far as a few feet. But I digress......it seems these farmers are not concerned with selective pollination, rather a more diluted, but segregated population is achieved. Keeping the gene pool concentrated to only their crop. In essence, creating a "valley" strain. Which brings in another point...how many valleys are there in the Hindu Kush range? Hundreds...maybe thousands? So I guess it boils down to which region the seedstock was acclimated from...and if the grower can achieve similar conditions in an isolated "indoor climate"....that the genes can be brought forth, in their true form?? One would have to know the regions climatography, to be able to reproduce the conditions required to do this. Thus...it is almost impossible for the average grower, to get pure genes to full potential.

edit:...I forgot what my point was...

of course...this is all mere speculation and ramblings!

Oh...and welcome to Miss T!

 

[Herbalistic]

Damn, I did forgot this thread for days and it has evolved so much that it takes some time to catch up!

That being said, I would like to thank Ngakpa for all this fantastic information that you share with us

Also good to see that Zamalito found this thread and dropped some wisdom.

Brother_Monk: I think we cannot generalize the "breeding methods" of Hindu Kush area, because there are so many different tribes/valleys/villages that produce charas. One thing that I have noticed is that all the charas makers are very proud of their product and claim it the best!!!

= little speculation:

So, if there are wisdom of breeding, it surely is kept secret from others so the one´s with wisdom have monopoly to produce the best charas and get the highest price.

Ofcourse this aint the fact everytime, but I strongly believe that these traditonal cultivators dont want to "reveal" their techniques for better/more potent hashplants to other cultivators from the same area...

Wind is a factor also when we think different possibilities for accidental pollination.

However, because all these crazy elevation differences do block that alternative little + the fact, that pollen becomes neutral when it gets moist.

Anyone with me with this^^??

This or that, it´s all good, so let´s keep the information flowing people!!!

 

[Brother_Monk]

Herbalistic: It was not my intention to generalize any farmers breeding practices. Only....put myself in the shoes of the farmer.

Brother_Monk: I think we cannot generalize the "breeding methods" of Hindu Kush area, because there are so many different tribes/valleys/villages that produce charas. One thing that I have noticed is that all the charas makers are very proud of their product and claim it the best!!!

...ah yes! The point I was searching for Thanks for reminding me! There are so many valleys and farmers, producing the "Best Hash".....who's to know how many of these cultivars, are not imported from valley to valley? Like...passed on to generations and friends. Who may perhaps, live outside the originating valley? It is impossible to trace, but the generalizing can begin by regions. Only because there are only so many micro climates scattered throught the regions.
Does that make any sense?

 

[Herbalistic]

...ah yes! The point I was searching for Thanks for reminding me! There are so many valleys and farmers, producing the "Best Hash".....who's to know how many of these cultivars, are not imported from valley to valley? Like...passed on to generations and friends. Who may perhaps, live outside the originating valley? It is impossible to trace, but the generalizing can begin by regions. Only because there are only so many micro climates scattered throught the regions.
Does that make any sense?

Yeah, I agree it´s nearly impossible to trace these genetics without permant peace on these area´s and alot of money to make expensive testes in laboratories.

I hear your point when you say that generalizing can begin by regions, but I just think it wouldnt be efficient, just because of the microclimates etc..

It is very possible that these genetics have been shared by different valley´s & different tribes & relatives, but I strongly believe that there are entire tribes/villages/familys, who are growing traditional cultivar/cultivars, because it´s superior to other cultivars found on area, or that they have so strong tradition growing it. One important point which hold my theory is that they are very proud of their product and make their own stamps etc. into hashchunks.

In fact, I believe that there happens both of these types of cultivation. There are those people that will gladly try new cultivars if some trusted person recommends them, but I really do believe that there are these smaller producers that really are after the quality, because the tradition of making "best hash" or simply becaue of bigger profit!!

One thing which is against the sharing/spreading theory is that ther is so many different tribes in the area and these people really are proud of their product and think it´s unique compared to other available charas and want to keep that cultivar & wisdom inside their family/village/tribe, because it´s traditional way. I mean that some village might be famous just for their charas, so they dont wanna lose this stronghold to others, who can cultivate same strain with same technique in much wider area´s and potently defeat their marketplace...

+ the fact, that there are people who make you swear that you dont use seeds from these area´s, so only they can have these genetics!!!

Just my

But once again, I think it´s very obvious that there are many mixed genetics, just the way you described it, but there are also people, that respect the traditional cultivars and dont let them mix!!!

 

[Guest]

you guys helped broaden my thoughts of the subject . I was thinking back to the late 70s and early 80s about all the indica I got to sample and grow all was broad leafed short and very resones. Todays strains seem to be alot more narrow leafed less reson and taller. again all my insight comes from seed and plants here in the states so who knows how pure it is. Any grower or farmer has great pride and usally giant ego"s about there product just look at all the flaming that goes on here, so im sure they try to do there best to keep there strains to them selves but with wind and general pollination I really dont know how successful they are.

 

[JDOG6000]

Those pure Kushs are still around.
Those oldtimers just never come online or sell clones at clubs.
So you only find em if you know those people.

 

[Guest]

Wow I can't believe I only found this thread now. I'm a kush growing I believe anyways. I have the DP master kush which is supposely HK x HK. Mine however is about 60/40 sativa leaning. Heres some pictures whatcha think?

 

[JDOG6000]

It sounds like you got the Hindu Kush x Skunk #1.

 

[guest3854]

Some coffeeshop Kush , SR-71's PK . Pushed to tha limit with heat and nutes .







Outside tha "scene" , so yeah , flex testing at it's best :




Steele

 

[Guest]

great grow. Looks like you have way to much room in there though, how about letting me use some oh that extra space you have there, ha ha. jdog im sure some of those plants still exist here , but why arent they as prevelent over there in the HK range as they were 20 years ago? again I havent been there, and maybe they are, it just dont seem like im seeing any more like deep chunk coming your way.

 

[redwood-roots]

It sounds like you got the Hindu Kush x Skunk #1.

I was thinking the same thing. Those girls look like just like some of the phenos of Golden Skush (Skunk X Hindu Kush)
I just finished up. The more kush dom pheno basically formed a massive crown from the chunky buds. The skunk dom ones looked just like those pics and ran 10 weeks..as opposed to the 8-8.5 week kush dom.

 

[ngakpa]

it's also likely what you have is hybrid of Kush strains, as sold, and that the more 'sativa' phenos are a reflection of the actual charas indicas that were used in the cross

 

[eskimo]

greetings There : )

was aswell growing some of mrikos purple yarkhun well what can i say
it was wonderfull , it has this orange like smell sometime lite parfuimet grapefruit that turns if you let her marture to a black peper / and kinda spice parfum like smell with hitts of grapefruit, coloration is the longer you let her the more purple on the buds. She could or would aswell grow big
aslong the pot/howl is big
will share some pictures but if you like but would hawe to must search
them...: )


edit :
here is one of mrkos pictures ..... Yarkhun Red Male



hope you don't mind


wishes ...: )

 

[Guest]

It sounds like you got the Hindu Kush x Skunk #1.

Well I thought I had been purchasing master kush from dutch passions. I got a few different varieties. My pot of Gold however is definately indica dom.
(hk x sk1)

 

[indicalover]

Bumpty bumb!

 

[ngakpa]

flooding and glacial disappearance in Hindu Kush and Hindu Raj

flooding and glacial disappearance in Hindu Kush and Hindu Raj

"The deluge deluges Chitral villages"

http://www.chitralnews.com/LT055.htm

"There is a short-term danger of too much water coming out of the Himalayas and a greater long-term danger of it not being enough," said Dr Phil Porter of the University of Hertfordshire. "Either way, it is easy to pinpoint the cause: global warming."


... when the Indus, Yellow River, and Mekong river innevitably stop flowing, literally hundreds of millions of people across Asia will be deprived of water - the consequences will be so horrific as to be unthinkable... according to the UN this could occur by 2035, possibly sooner

By Israr Ahmed

Sultan Faraz, like hundreds other villagers of Sonogur, a village of Chitral district of NWFP, was sleeping in his house on June 29, 2007, when during the wee hours, a loud and strange sound sent him rushing out of his home.

He along with other villagers rushed to the tops of nearby hills and safe places when they saw their houses and herds of cattle being swept away by a wall of water rushing down from the mountain.

Sultan and his fellow villagers were able to scramble to safety. They were lucky: "If it had comewithout any bang that served as a wakeup call, most of the villagers would not have survived," said Sultan Faraz.

On June 29, 2007, a centuries-old glacier on the mountain near Sonogur village broke lose. Consequently, the huge wall of water that rushed down the valley played havoc with the beautiful village.

The water gushing out of glacier washed away more than 200 houses completely and partly damaged some 140 houses of the 500-house village of Sonogur. It also destroyed standings crops and fruit orchards.

Schools, hospitals, grains godown, mosques, other buildings, bridges and roads connecting the villages to adjoining areas, besides thousands of cattle of the villagers were also swept away.

Sonoghor village is known for its natural beauty, crystal clear streams, mouth watering fruit and mesmerizing ambience in the beautiful mountainous district of Chitral.

Newspapers attributed the breakup of the glaciers to the rainfall. But this claim was contested by environmental expert and scientists. The area received heavy rainfall every year, but no glacier breakup was reported in the past due to rainfall.

Experts are of the view that the mountainous valley is under the influence of global environmental changes that are causing drastic environmental, climatic and even geographical changes across the globe. They attributed the breakup of the glacier to global warming. If it is the case, then the situation is alarming for the whole area, as there are hundreds of glaciers located on the overlooking mountains, which threaten over 300 small villages located in the foothills.

Scientists are constantly warning the severe implications of global warming on the glaciers of Himaliays, Karakorum and Hindu Kush ranges. Findings of studies, conducted by scientists recently revealed that the glaciers of the regions were swiftly retreating and vanishing owing to global warming and increase in the temperature of the region.

A report recently published in the Nature said Himalayan glacial lakes were filling up with more and more melted ice and 24 of them were now poised to burst their banks in Bhutan, with a similar number at risk in Nepal. But that is just the beginning, the report said. Future disasters around the Himalayas will include 'floods, droughts, land erosion, biodiversity loss and changes in rainfall and the monsoon'.

"The roof of the world is changing, as can be seen by Nepal's Khumbu glacier, where Hillary and Tenzing began their 1953 Everest expedition. It has retreated three miles since their ascent. Almost 95 per cent of Himalayan glaciers are also shrinking - and that kind of ice loss has profound implications, not just for Nepal and Bhutan, but for surrounding nations, including China, India and Pakistan", the report cautioned.

Eventually, the Himalayan glaciers will shrink so much that their melt waters will dry up, say scientists. Rivers fed by these melted glaciers - such as the River Indus, Yellow River and Mekong - will turn to trickles. Drinking and irrigation water will disappear. Hundreds of millions of people will be affected, they warned.

"There is a short-term danger of too much water coming out of the Himalayas and a greater long-term danger of it not being enough," said Dr Phil Porter of the University of Hertfordshire. "Either way, it is easy to pinpoint the cause: global warming."

As the studies pinpointed the disastrous consequences of glacial melt for the people, watershed of the Himalyas and other nearby mountain range along the Tibet Plateu, the melt and the climate changes could also have catastrophic consequences for Chitral valley as well as for the whole of our country.

The glaciers located on the mountains of Chitral release water steadily throughout the year, most critically during the hot, dry, sunny periods when water is most needed. Once the galleries vanish, the major streams fed-by glacial water rushing down the mountains could become seasonal or dried up.

These streams are sources of irrigation and the agriculture of the area is dependent on the streams’ waters. Moreover, these steams also supply drinking water to the inhabitants of the valley.

The stream water is also important for the Chitralis in other ways too, as it is used for grinding grains and for generation of hydel power, which is sole mean of power generation for the area.

Owing to the streams and hill torrents, the area has a vast but untapped potential of hydel power generation. Hence, the glacier-fed streams are of great importance and may rightly be called lifeline for the area.

A professor of department of environmental science, Peshawar University, said the whole areas as well as the world was in grip of environmental changes, mainly owing to global warming and increased proportion of greenhouse gases that are said to be major cause for increase in global temperature.

He was of the view that more breakup of glaciers located in the mountainous areas of Chitral and Northern Areas might occur in future.
It is worth mentioning that the River Kabul, which is a main tributary of Pakistan’s largest and important river, Indus, also originates from Chitral with water released from the glaciers located in the mountains of Hindu Kush, Karakorma and other ranges in the area.

In broader perspective, the scenarios has far-reaching implications for the whole country as well as for the region as rivers fed by the glacial melts are main tributaries of Indus and the rivers of neighboring countries.

A United Nations’ body studying global warming, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in a stark forecast in May 2007 had warned that the glaciers in the world’s highest mountain range could vanish within three decades.

"Glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps getting warmer at the current rate," the report said. The total area of glaciers in the Himalayas is likely to shrink from 193,051 square miles to 38,600 square miles by that year," the report said.

While some scientists dispute the assessments of the UN body and the rate of retreat is highly variable, experts on glaciers in China, India and Nepal are already seeing the short-term effect of glacial melting. As the glaciers recede, lakes on the Tibetan Plateau are rising, and experts foresee floods, landslides and mudflows from mountain lakes overrunning their banks.

"They can cause tremendous loss of property, or even lives. They can destroy bridges, villages and roads," said Yao Tandong, one of China’s premier glacier scientists and director of the Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research in Beijing.

Scientists say 1.3 billion people reside in areas affected by glacial retreat, either in flood-prone areas or in locales that rely on year-round supplies of fresh water from glaciers rather than from the monsoon rainfall of only three or four months.

Glaciers are retreating across an area that’s the largest high-altitude land mass on the planet, bordered by the Himalayas to the south, the Tian Shan range to the north, and the Pamirs and the Karakorum Mountains to the west.

Throughout the area, experts say, dwindling glaciers may lead to unstable mountainsides, greater sedimentation in rivers and disrupted irrigation systems, in addition to threatening water supplies to large populations.
Besides the UN report and other studies, a US State Department report released recently warned that Asia is expected to face a serious shortage of fresh water due to climate change, with more than one billion people forecast to be hit by the crisis.

Melting glaciers in the Himalayas -- which contain the largest storage of water outside the polar ice caps, and feed seven great Asian rivers -- may lead to increased flooding in the short term and reduced water supply in the long term, the report said.

"Reduced freshwater availability in Asia could affect more than one billion people by the mid-century," said the department's annual report on safe water and sanitation strategy in developing countries.

The report to the US Congress added that "increased floods and changes in coastal water temperatures could result in greater morbidity and mortality due to diarrhea disease."

While water demand is exploding in the rapidly growing region, it faces supply pressures due to poor infrastructure operation and maintenance, inappropriate technology, and weak technical and financial management, the report said.

"Unless fundamental changes occur in water management practices, the region will experience harsh water shortages that will adversely impact economic growth," it warned.

Coming back to Chitral, the affected people of recent flesh flood caused by heavy torrential rains in the district were left in lurch by the provincial as well as federal governments. The recent flood has displaced hundreds of people and rendered scores of them homeless in many villages of the district.

The worst affected villages are Sonogur, Rayen, Kushum, Booni, Garam Chashma and others.

Many affected people, talking to Weekly Pulse on telephone, complained that the provincial as well as federal government had abandoned them. They said owing to indifferent attitudes of both federal and provincial governments, they were forced to lead a pathetic and miserable life under open sky and without any relief.

They are very annoyed over the cold response of federal and provincial government toward the relief and rehabilitation of flood victims.

The affected people of Sonogur said although the district government had provided some edible items to them, it did not meet their needs, adding that firewood, kerosene or natural gas had not been provided to them for cooking food.

The supply system of potable water was also damaged in the affected villages and there is a dire need to immediately rehabilitate the system as people are without any safe drinking water and they are forced to consume contaminated water, which is causing gastroenteritis, dysentery and other abdominal diseases.

The district government has distributed 40kg wheat flour bag and 5kg each of ghee, pulse, sugar and rice, which is meant for two families. An affected man said he had 13 members in his family and he had received only 20kg of flour, which could hardly last two days.

Gul Hayat Khan Advocate told this scribe on phone that the flood had badly damaged standing crops and properties, besides washing away cattle and other livestock in many villages.

Citing an affected village, Rayen, he said flood has played havoc with property and standing crops in the village and some 25 houses were washed away and crops of over 70 villagers were completely damaged.
He said the irrigation channels of the village were also destroyed by the flood and the remaining crops that were not affected were drying up due to scarcity of water. "There is no plan in sight to restore the irrigation channels by the government," he added.

He said not a single official of the district or provincial government, including district nazim, bothered to visit the affected village.

 

[friction2k]

Dutch Passion Masterkush: