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the KUSH thread
- Thread starter OG bub
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muddy waters
Active member
PUFFS-ENUFF the first pistils on the top bud of my deep chunk were pinkish for sure...
what about RCC's c. afghanica? this classification seems to be meant for what we refer to as indica, but c. afghanica would be found in neighboring countries as well, not just afghanistan, right?
and if the vavilov-based observation of RCC that c afghanica is a 20th century phenomenon is off, then... how long has the broad-leaf, compact bud hashish cultivar been around and did it spread along the silk road throughout india/southeast asia/china/japan? could plants with this mutation have been hybridized prior to westerners doing it in the 80s, both in the original kush region and along trade routes?
what about RCC's c. afghanica? this classification seems to be meant for what we refer to as indica, but c. afghanica would be found in neighboring countries as well, not just afghanistan, right?
and if the vavilov-based observation of RCC that c afghanica is a 20th century phenomenon is off, then... how long has the broad-leaf, compact bud hashish cultivar been around and did it spread along the silk road throughout india/southeast asia/china/japan? could plants with this mutation have been hybridized prior to westerners doing it in the 80s, both in the original kush region and along trade routes?
PUFFS-ENUFF
Member
interesting
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G
Guest
everything is kush as of late..whats the diff between - Kush & Afghani..?
I
indicalover
I believe it depends on where the genetics come from. The Hindu Kush mountain range runs through Afghanistan. So it can be an Afghan Kush, or a Pakistani Kush. I believe there is a previous post that lists what countries that the Hindu Kush mountains run through.
Alfred-cannaria
Member
Hi people.
Very interesting thread. If i put hindu kush on Google hearth the programs run to Jaipur, Rajasthan... etc, on the other hand, if we search about hindu kush on Wikipedia we can find this information:
The Hindu Kush, Hindū Kūsh, Hindoo Koosh or Hindukush (Persian: هندوکش, Sanskrit: हिन्दु कुश) is a mountain range in Afghanistan as well as in the North-West Frontier Province and Northern Areas of Pakistan. It is the westernmost extension of the Pamir Mountains, the Karakoram Range, and the Himalayas.
The name Hindu Kush is usually applied to the whole of the range separating the basins of the Kabul and Helmand rivers from that of the Amu Darya (or ancient Oxus), or more specifically, to that part of the range to the northwest of Kabul.
The mountains of the Hindu Kush system diminish in height as they stretch westward: toward the middle, near Kabul, they extend from 4,500 to 6,000 meters; in the west, they attain heights of 3,500 to 4,000 meters. The average altitude of the Hindu Kush is 4,500 meters. The Hindu Kush system stretches about 966 kilometers laterally, and its median north-south measurement is about 240 kilometers. Only about 600 kilometers of the Hindu Kush system is called the Hindu Kush mountains. The rest of the system consists of numerous smaller mountain ranges including the Koh-e Baba, Salang, Koh-e Paghman, Spin Ghar (also called the eastern Safid Koh), Suleiman Range, Siah Koh, Koh-e Khwaja Mohammad and Selseleh-e Band-e Turkestan. The western Safid Koh, the Siah Band and Doshakh are commonly referred to as the Paropamisus by western scholars.
Rivers that flow from the mountain system include the Helmand River, the Hari Rud and the Kabul River, watersheds for the Sistan Basin.
Numerous high passes ("kotal") transect the mountains, forming a strategically important network for the transit of caravans. The most important mountain pass is the Kotal-e Salang (3,878 m); it links Kabul and points south to northern Afghanistan. The completion of a tunnel within this pass in 1964 reduced travel time between Kabul and the north to a few hours. Previously access to the north through the Kotal-e Shibar (3,260 m) took three days. The Salang tunnel at 3,363 m and the extensive network of galleries on the approach roads were constructed with Soviet financial and technological assistance and involved drilling 1.7 miles through the heart of the Hindu Kush.
Before the Salang road was constructed, the most famous passes in the Western historical perceptions of Afghanistan were those leading to the Indian subcontinent. They include the Khyber Pass (1,027 m), in Pakistan, and the Kotal-e Lataband (2,499 m) east of Kabul, which was superseded in 1960 by a road constructed within the Kabul River's most spectacular gorge, the Tang-e Gharu. This remarkable engineering feat reduced travel time between Kabul and the Pakistan border from two days to a few hours.
The roads through the Salang and Tang-e Gharu passes played critical strategic roles during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and were used extensively by heavy military vehicles. Consequently, these roads are in very bad repair. Many bombed out bridges have been repaired, but numbers of the larger structures remain broken. Periodic closures due to conflicts in the area seriously affect the economy and well-being of many regions, for these are major routes carrying commercial trade, emergency relief and reconstruction assistance supplies destined for all parts of the country.
There are a number of other important passes in Afghanistan. The Wakhjir (4,923 m), proceeds from the Wakhan Corridor into Xinjiang, China, and into Northern Areas of Pakistan. Passes which join Afghanistan to Chitral, Pakistan, include the Baroghil (3,798 m) and the Kachin (5,639 m), which also cross from the Wakhan. Important passes located farther west are the Shotorgardan (3,720 m), linking Logar and Paktiya provinces; the Bazarak (2,713 m), leading into Mazari Sharif; the Khawak (3,550 m) in the Panjsher Valley, and the Anjuman (3,858 m) at the head of the Panjsher Valley giving entrance to the north. The Hajigak (2,713 m) and Unai (3,350 m) lead into the eastern Hazarajat and Bamyan Valley. The passes of the Paropamisus in the west are relatively low, averaging around 600 meters; the most well-known of these is the Sabzak between the Herat and Badghis provinces, which links the western and northwestern parts of Afghanistan.
These mountainous areas are mostly barren, or at the most sparsely sprinkled with trees and stunted bushes. Very ancient mines producing lapis lazuli are found in Kowkcheh Valley, while gem-grade emeralds are found north of Kabul in the valley of the Panjsher River and some of its tributaries. The famous 'balas rubies' or spinels, were mined until the 19th century in the valley of the Ab-e Panj or Upper Amu Darya River, considered to be the meeting place between the Hindu Kush and the Pamir ranges. These mines now appear to be exhausted.
The Eastern Hindu Kush range, also known as the Low Hindu Kush range, is mostly located in northern Pakistan and the Nuristan and Badakhshan provinces of Afghanistan. The Chitral district of Pakistan is home to Tirich Mir, Noshaq, and Istoro Nal, the highest peaks in the Hindu Kush. The range also extends into Ghizar, Yasin Valley, and Ishkoman in Pakistan's Northern Areas.
Chitral is considered to be the pinnacle of the Hindu Kush region. The highest peaks, as well as countless passes and massive glaciers, are located in this region. The Chiantar, Kurambar, and Terich glaciers are amongst the most extensive in the Hindu Kush and the meltwater from these glaciers form the Kunar River, which eventually flows south into Afghanistan and joins the Bashgal, Panjsher, and eventually the much smaller Kabul River.
The jazz musician Katie Melua wrote a song called "Halfway Up the Hindu Kush", probably because in the 1960s and 70s Afghanistan was depicted in the media as the romantic haven of nomads and a resort for hashish-smoking hippies.
More information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
It´s very very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
Very interesting thread. If i put hindu kush on Google hearth the programs run to Jaipur, Rajasthan... etc, on the other hand, if we search about hindu kush on Wikipedia we can find this information:
The Hindu Kush, Hindū Kūsh, Hindoo Koosh or Hindukush (Persian: هندوکش, Sanskrit: हिन्दु कुश) is a mountain range in Afghanistan as well as in the North-West Frontier Province and Northern Areas of Pakistan. It is the westernmost extension of the Pamir Mountains, the Karakoram Range, and the Himalayas.
The name Hindu Kush is usually applied to the whole of the range separating the basins of the Kabul and Helmand rivers from that of the Amu Darya (or ancient Oxus), or more specifically, to that part of the range to the northwest of Kabul.
The mountains of the Hindu Kush system diminish in height as they stretch westward: toward the middle, near Kabul, they extend from 4,500 to 6,000 meters; in the west, they attain heights of 3,500 to 4,000 meters. The average altitude of the Hindu Kush is 4,500 meters. The Hindu Kush system stretches about 966 kilometers laterally, and its median north-south measurement is about 240 kilometers. Only about 600 kilometers of the Hindu Kush system is called the Hindu Kush mountains. The rest of the system consists of numerous smaller mountain ranges including the Koh-e Baba, Salang, Koh-e Paghman, Spin Ghar (also called the eastern Safid Koh), Suleiman Range, Siah Koh, Koh-e Khwaja Mohammad and Selseleh-e Band-e Turkestan. The western Safid Koh, the Siah Band and Doshakh are commonly referred to as the Paropamisus by western scholars.
Rivers that flow from the mountain system include the Helmand River, the Hari Rud and the Kabul River, watersheds for the Sistan Basin.
Numerous high passes ("kotal") transect the mountains, forming a strategically important network for the transit of caravans. The most important mountain pass is the Kotal-e Salang (3,878 m); it links Kabul and points south to northern Afghanistan. The completion of a tunnel within this pass in 1964 reduced travel time between Kabul and the north to a few hours. Previously access to the north through the Kotal-e Shibar (3,260 m) took three days. The Salang tunnel at 3,363 m and the extensive network of galleries on the approach roads were constructed with Soviet financial and technological assistance and involved drilling 1.7 miles through the heart of the Hindu Kush.
Before the Salang road was constructed, the most famous passes in the Western historical perceptions of Afghanistan were those leading to the Indian subcontinent. They include the Khyber Pass (1,027 m), in Pakistan, and the Kotal-e Lataband (2,499 m) east of Kabul, which was superseded in 1960 by a road constructed within the Kabul River's most spectacular gorge, the Tang-e Gharu. This remarkable engineering feat reduced travel time between Kabul and the Pakistan border from two days to a few hours.
The roads through the Salang and Tang-e Gharu passes played critical strategic roles during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and were used extensively by heavy military vehicles. Consequently, these roads are in very bad repair. Many bombed out bridges have been repaired, but numbers of the larger structures remain broken. Periodic closures due to conflicts in the area seriously affect the economy and well-being of many regions, for these are major routes carrying commercial trade, emergency relief and reconstruction assistance supplies destined for all parts of the country.
There are a number of other important passes in Afghanistan. The Wakhjir (4,923 m), proceeds from the Wakhan Corridor into Xinjiang, China, and into Northern Areas of Pakistan. Passes which join Afghanistan to Chitral, Pakistan, include the Baroghil (3,798 m) and the Kachin (5,639 m), which also cross from the Wakhan. Important passes located farther west are the Shotorgardan (3,720 m), linking Logar and Paktiya provinces; the Bazarak (2,713 m), leading into Mazari Sharif; the Khawak (3,550 m) in the Panjsher Valley, and the Anjuman (3,858 m) at the head of the Panjsher Valley giving entrance to the north. The Hajigak (2,713 m) and Unai (3,350 m) lead into the eastern Hazarajat and Bamyan Valley. The passes of the Paropamisus in the west are relatively low, averaging around 600 meters; the most well-known of these is the Sabzak between the Herat and Badghis provinces, which links the western and northwestern parts of Afghanistan.
These mountainous areas are mostly barren, or at the most sparsely sprinkled with trees and stunted bushes. Very ancient mines producing lapis lazuli are found in Kowkcheh Valley, while gem-grade emeralds are found north of Kabul in the valley of the Panjsher River and some of its tributaries. The famous 'balas rubies' or spinels, were mined until the 19th century in the valley of the Ab-e Panj or Upper Amu Darya River, considered to be the meeting place between the Hindu Kush and the Pamir ranges. These mines now appear to be exhausted.
The Eastern Hindu Kush range, also known as the Low Hindu Kush range, is mostly located in northern Pakistan and the Nuristan and Badakhshan provinces of Afghanistan. The Chitral district of Pakistan is home to Tirich Mir, Noshaq, and Istoro Nal, the highest peaks in the Hindu Kush. The range also extends into Ghizar, Yasin Valley, and Ishkoman in Pakistan's Northern Areas.
Chitral is considered to be the pinnacle of the Hindu Kush region. The highest peaks, as well as countless passes and massive glaciers, are located in this region. The Chiantar, Kurambar, and Terich glaciers are amongst the most extensive in the Hindu Kush and the meltwater from these glaciers form the Kunar River, which eventually flows south into Afghanistan and joins the Bashgal, Panjsher, and eventually the much smaller Kabul River.
The jazz musician Katie Melua wrote a song called "Halfway Up the Hindu Kush", probably because in the 1960s and 70s Afghanistan was depicted in the media as the romantic haven of nomads and a resort for hashish-smoking hippies.
More information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
It´s very very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Kush
E
easyrasta
how bout more pics?
Kush mtn sativas or indicas or afgani, what ever.
who makes the cut and who dont?
Thanks
Kush mtn sativas or indicas or afgani, what ever.
who makes the cut and who dont?
Thanks
as the wiki post says, the Hindu Kush regions are mostly very barren and arid -
for the mountain farmers of these regions their essential water comes not from rain, but from glacial melt water.... a sophisticated agriculture system which has evolved over centuries involves intricate networks of contolled irrigation channels which flow down from higher glacial flows through crops down the mountainside to the valleys below... farmers will check these streams daily and alter their course down the valley side according to need... small hydroelectic generator stations at points of rapid flow provide power and are also used to grind grain... these glacial streams also provide household and drinking water for families
the glaciers of the Hindu Kush, Karakoram and Himalaya are melting faster than ever due to global warming... this year there have been uncontrollable quantities of water flowing; whole sections of glacier and mountainside have been breaking loose and destroying villages and killing many - the Hindu Kush in particularly has been badly affected, with thousands of km of road left unpassable, and little relief aid reaching villages since May... many anticipated crops have died because of the destruction of the water channels
for the next decade or so these mountain regions will likely be characterised by intense flooding and landslides; a prediction from the University of Hertfordshire is that in 35 years these regions will then be afflicted by perpetual drought once the glaciers have shrunk away and the melt flow has effectively ceased
the enviromental, cultural and humanitarian consequences will be irreversible...
for the mountain farmers of these regions their essential water comes not from rain, but from glacial melt water.... a sophisticated agriculture system which has evolved over centuries involves intricate networks of contolled irrigation channels which flow down from higher glacial flows through crops down the mountainside to the valleys below... farmers will check these streams daily and alter their course down the valley side according to need... small hydroelectic generator stations at points of rapid flow provide power and are also used to grind grain... these glacial streams also provide household and drinking water for families
the glaciers of the Hindu Kush, Karakoram and Himalaya are melting faster than ever due to global warming... this year there have been uncontrollable quantities of water flowing; whole sections of glacier and mountainside have been breaking loose and destroying villages and killing many - the Hindu Kush in particularly has been badly affected, with thousands of km of road left unpassable, and little relief aid reaching villages since May... many anticipated crops have died because of the destruction of the water channels
for the next decade or so these mountain regions will likely be characterised by intense flooding and landslides; a prediction from the University of Hertfordshire is that in 35 years these regions will then be afflicted by perpetual drought once the glaciers have shrunk away and the melt flow has effectively ceased
the enviromental, cultural and humanitarian consequences will be irreversible...
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I
indicalover
Info on the Purple Kush from Breeders Choice?
G
Guest
The purple Kush is a pure Indica Hashish line from the Northern valleys of Pakistan on the boarders with Afghanistan. She is a slightly less broad leaf than many pure Indicas as are many in that region. She grows very much like a typical Skunk type plant, although shares no genetic heritage, just to give you a idea of type inside.
The purple is apparent in 40% of the seed line and is not related to temperatures, the line carries full on purple traits. Some plants will show deep purple solid colourations with deep blood red tones apparent.
The purple is apparent in 40% of the seed line and is not related to temperatures, the line carries full on purple traits. Some plants will show deep purple solid colourations with deep blood red tones apparent.
G
Guest
I lived in NWFP(North Western Frontier Province) in Pakistan for 6-7 years and during that time I smoked nothing but the BEST local hashish from that area. Not only that but I am Pathan by etnicity and speak the local language Pashtho. I was able to see things that no western eyes could see like the process of how they make the hashish but thats another story.
I have sampled almost every "Kush" strain from online seedbanks that I could find and all of them have a skunk taste to them that does NOT remind me of what I smoked in Pakistan.
I have yet to sample a REAL Kush here in the states. Sorry but I think that most "Dutch and Canadian" Kushes are not the real Mcoy. If you have ever smoked Pakistani Charas then you know what Im talking about.
I have sampled almost every "Kush" strain from online seedbanks that I could find and all of them have a skunk taste to them that does NOT remind me of what I smoked in Pakistan.
I have yet to sample a REAL Kush here in the states. Sorry but I think that most "Dutch and Canadian" Kushes are not the real Mcoy. If you have ever smoked Pakistani Charas then you know what Im talking about.
ngakpa, thanks for the sobering report. 
All the more reason to save these genetics.
bluekush, much thanks for your info on the purple kush! Looks to be well suited for breeding projects. How does she do inside? Flowering time?
Kaleem, welcome!
I think I speak for most of us in saying we'd love to hear those other stories! 
You might want to give some of the Breeder's Choice genetics a shot.
All the more reason to save these genetics.bluekush, much thanks for your info on the purple kush! Looks to be well suited for breeding projects. How does she do inside? Flowering time?
Kaleem, welcome!
I think I speak for most of us in saying we'd love to hear those other stories! You might want to give some of the Breeder's Choice genetics a shot.
Indicaluvr, I dont want to get banned for spamming for our seeds but I'm always willing to answer specific questions about it in pm's. I will say it is a slightly narrower genepool than our other kush and central asian indica offerings but at the same time it is the best breeding indica line I'm aware of although I havent worked with HTC's paki which looks like another 5 star indica line. Look out Bub and Tom because this line is gonna knock Deep Chunk off it's throne (just kidding bub and Tom. You know I love you guys). My experience with DC is limited to one pack of seeds and the offspring I've grown from inbreeding that one pack which obviously isnt the best way to sample a line or find a keeper. OK no more spamming from me I promise.
Puffs Enuff, I definitely agree with pink and purple pistils being a trait of central asian Indicas and solely from central Asian Indicas and their hybrids. I have seen fire engine red pistils on a few sativas namely the greengenes cherry bomb and a couple southern African line. Pink purple and occasionally baby blue pistils are heavily effected by environment also. Since indoor rooms have tighter control on temps a plant can have the genotype for colored pistils but may not express it. It's hard to say exactly how many cantral asian indica lines have colored pistils somewhere in their genepool but I'd say between 10-30% maybe even more.
Muddy, I'm not really certain what exactly RCC means when he refers to Afghanica. He seems to be correcting what we call Indicas and coaxing us to call it Afghanica since that is what he considers to be the primary location where Indicas grew wild before being picked up by man. I dont really agree with that . I should say that I'm not exactly certain what he means because he does use both indica and afghanica in his writings to describe a similar set of phenostypes. He may just be using afghanica to refer to the short wide leafed low calyx to leaf ratio plants similar to what vavilov found growing wild.
Well to give my best answer to your second question I need to point out that not all broad leafed plants are hashish cultivars or even drug cultivars. There are many landrace lines in asia that possess traits and possibly a pedigree that we'd associate with indicas but are cultivated and bred/selected as fiber or seed plants. It's kind of a myth that all fiber plants are of the sativa ohenotype. While it is important for fiber plants to have a longer nodal spacing than we generally associate with indica and the short growth we always associate cannot be applied to these plants. Although I've never seen a broad leafed fiber cultivar first hand, I get the impression that some of these lines are supposed to resemble some broad leafed drug cultivars. My point for saying this is I am almost 100% certain thatthere are some indica lines which go back to antiquity all over asia from nothern the edible seed lines on the Japanese island of Hokkaido to Northern India and possibly much further. Because these genes were spred so far that certainly there were hybrids both from contamination from wild plants, intentional selective breeding, and possibly cross pollination between feral plants. These hybrids go way back. There's no way of knowing for certain without doing some genetic work but the Hokkaido indicas appear to be descended from central asian hashish cultivars and are capacle of producing high cannabinoid levels. Although, most plants are primarily cbd producers, some plants can produce primarily thc. When taking into consideration that these plants have been feral for a very long time most plants produce very high amounts of whichever cannabinoid theyre are genetically designated to produce. IMO this supports the theory that eventhough these are feral plants from edible seed lines. They have been selectively bred for resin production before arriving to Japan. These plants are also heavily acclimated and IMO there's really no way they they were selectively bred from wild plants to hashish lines. Then travelled all the way from afghaniston to hokkaido and then became a fully acclimated very palletable edible seed lines that was so acclimated to the extremely short growing season of Hokkaido that it went feral very succesfully and all of this between 1900 at the earliest and 1970 at the very latest. So IMO indica had to have been spred by humanity since antiquity and since broad leafed cultivars appear throughout the entire ganja complex (food, medicine, fiber, recreation, and religious) it seems to be really likely that hybrids have existed since antiquity.
Puffs Enuff, I definitely agree with pink and purple pistils being a trait of central asian Indicas and solely from central Asian Indicas and their hybrids. I have seen fire engine red pistils on a few sativas namely the greengenes cherry bomb and a couple southern African line. Pink purple and occasionally baby blue pistils are heavily effected by environment also. Since indoor rooms have tighter control on temps a plant can have the genotype for colored pistils but may not express it. It's hard to say exactly how many cantral asian indica lines have colored pistils somewhere in their genepool but I'd say between 10-30% maybe even more.
Muddy, I'm not really certain what exactly RCC means when he refers to Afghanica. He seems to be correcting what we call Indicas and coaxing us to call it Afghanica since that is what he considers to be the primary location where Indicas grew wild before being picked up by man. I dont really agree with that . I should say that I'm not exactly certain what he means because he does use both indica and afghanica in his writings to describe a similar set of phenostypes. He may just be using afghanica to refer to the short wide leafed low calyx to leaf ratio plants similar to what vavilov found growing wild.
Well to give my best answer to your second question I need to point out that not all broad leafed plants are hashish cultivars or even drug cultivars. There are many landrace lines in asia that possess traits and possibly a pedigree that we'd associate with indicas but are cultivated and bred/selected as fiber or seed plants. It's kind of a myth that all fiber plants are of the sativa ohenotype. While it is important for fiber plants to have a longer nodal spacing than we generally associate with indica and the short growth we always associate cannot be applied to these plants. Although I've never seen a broad leafed fiber cultivar first hand, I get the impression that some of these lines are supposed to resemble some broad leafed drug cultivars. My point for saying this is I am almost 100% certain thatthere are some indica lines which go back to antiquity all over asia from nothern the edible seed lines on the Japanese island of Hokkaido to Northern India and possibly much further. Because these genes were spred so far that certainly there were hybrids both from contamination from wild plants, intentional selective breeding, and possibly cross pollination between feral plants. These hybrids go way back. There's no way of knowing for certain without doing some genetic work but the Hokkaido indicas appear to be descended from central asian hashish cultivars and are capacle of producing high cannabinoid levels. Although, most plants are primarily cbd producers, some plants can produce primarily thc. When taking into consideration that these plants have been feral for a very long time most plants produce very high amounts of whichever cannabinoid theyre are genetically designated to produce. IMO this supports the theory that eventhough these are feral plants from edible seed lines. They have been selectively bred for resin production before arriving to Japan. These plants are also heavily acclimated and IMO there's really no way they they were selectively bred from wild plants to hashish lines. Then travelled all the way from afghaniston to hokkaido and then became a fully acclimated very palletable edible seed lines that was so acclimated to the extremely short growing season of Hokkaido that it went feral very succesfully and all of this between 1900 at the earliest and 1970 at the very latest. So IMO indica had to have been spred by humanity since antiquity and since broad leafed cultivars appear throughout the entire ganja complex (food, medicine, fiber, recreation, and religious) it seems to be really likely that hybrids have existed since antiquity.
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Danknuggler
Active member
Wow Zam that was a really DEEP post.Since Antiquity huh? I love how that sounds.
G
Guest
Tom Hills Pine Tar Kush from Seedbay
Tom Hills Pine Tar Kush from Seedbay
shine is all natural . grown in potting compost with only water added .
Tom Hills Pine Tar Kush from Seedbay
shine is all natural . grown in potting compost with only water added
.
Alfred-cannaria
Member
Hi hibernia, very nice and vigorous plants. PTK are from pakistán, true??, i like so very much.
Some days ago a sent the order to buy purple kush and others. Proximately i put in my indoor some Kushes.. Pakistán, purple kush, Deep Chunk and others, as soon as posible i´ll put some pics of this differents kushes.
Peace and love.
Some days ago a sent the order to buy purple kush and others. Proximately i put in my indoor some Kushes.. Pakistán, purple kush, Deep Chunk and others, as soon as posible i´ll put some pics of this differents kushes.
Peace and love.
G
Guest
sounds to me like many of these kush genitics my be lost forever. All the more reason to get them know when we can. and keep them going.ngakpa said:
hey everyone -
there are regions of the Hindu Kush where from personal experience I know that cannabis seeds are still used as an integral party of daily food of farmers... high energy and incredibly nutritious food such as this is essential to the intensely physical agricultural life lived by men and women there
I will come back to that, but just to say that a popular condiment is also unpressed garda ("dust" i.e. sieved unpressed resin) which shepherds will sprinkle liberally over a breakfast of 'porridge' before spending the day (several days) crossing on foot through remote valleys to retrieve their flocks and so on...
this is day to day work at high altitude which will involve incredible feats of strength, balance and endurance while climbing and descending series of valley walls and slopes covered in scree, traversing paths narrower than the breadth of your foot over precipitous drops, and dangerous tracks across the backs of razor sharp ridges etc. etc. - perhaps twenty miles of this in a day without a second thought
the first time I saw this kind of casual (and thoroughly stoned) physical endurance in action was on a beautiful evening when I was sat by a river with a Pashtun friend and a local Ismaeli ademzada (aristocrat) swapping joints of charas... to all sides of us were vast red and golden peaks of the Hindu Kush and Hindu Raj mountains...
I noticed a growing cloud of dust on the towering opposite wall of the valley a mile or so away and pointed out to my friends what I took to be a small landslide or fall of scree... I was quickly corrected - no, (foolish Angrese) this red cloud was in fact a shepherd walking back from his day's work... and he had descended from the ridge top and bounded perhaps 700 or 800 metres in a minute or less, and continued to make his way to the green valley below... these are folk who to a man would think nothing of jumping their way down a scree slope like that... they do such things all day long, dawn till dusk...
in the regions with which I'm familiar cannabis seeds will generally be eaten during the fierce winter months... in the local Khowar dialect of these areas cannabis seeds are known (approx.) as "bong ('o) bee" ... Khowar is an Indo-European language, and both words here show it's close Indic roots cf. bhang, bija etc. ...
n.b. though... in these Hindu Kush regions it is the same strains which are used to produce charas which will be used to for edible seed, since it is seeded "bong" flowers which are sieved to produce garda... this sieving is done simply by stretching tightly woven cloth over large bowls... first grade hashish is made only by lightly sieving... second and third grade will use thinner more open cloth with more effort used to knock the resin glands from the flowers... at the end of this process the farmer is left with on the one hand a great deal of charas, and on the other trichome-less calyxes, twigs and seeds...
in May the "bee" which have not been eaten will be planted in amongst rows of maize, the farmer praying that he will have a crop at the year's end, and not be left by over-zealous police to make a living from apricot, mulberry etc. at subsitence level - or in the case of this year - below subsistence level, waiting for relief funds from central government, NGOs, the EU etc.
it is prohibtion which is needlessly forcing these communities into a state of dependence and helplessness... and when for centuries they have been producing and trading in a highly sought-after, valuable and delectable commodity all of us here love - hashish - we can see already the beginnings of a very simple and felicitous solution...
if I am honest i would say that the world's most pleasurable hashish is being produced in the Yarkhun Valley which runs along the Afghan border in Northern Pakistan - to my mind it has the perfect blend of physical and mental warmth coupled with a feeling of potent and uplifting illumination... folk in Europe and North America would happily part with good money for this, fairly traded and so on...
as much as anywhere, these regions desperately need the right to legally produce hashish under license from the government... how else can these rural economies sustain the infrastructure they so desperately need, how else can they afford adequately staffed and stocked schools, and how else can they generate the much needed affluence and security which will prevent their culture from descending into the appaling extremism like that of Waziristan and Helmand?
moreover, with the taxes raised by such a trade it would then be possible to raise the capital to pay the local police force, raise the salaries of local civil servants and thereby prevent the otherwise inevitable administrative corruption which allows for the flow of heroin from the nearby Wakhan and Badakshan opium growing regions into Chitral
it's all just common sense really, as ever
Ngakpa
there are regions of the Hindu Kush where from personal experience I know that cannabis seeds are still used as an integral party of daily food of farmers... high energy and incredibly nutritious food such as this is essential to the intensely physical agricultural life lived by men and women there
I will come back to that, but just to say that a popular condiment is also unpressed garda ("dust" i.e. sieved unpressed resin) which shepherds will sprinkle liberally over a breakfast of 'porridge' before spending the day (several days) crossing on foot through remote valleys to retrieve their flocks and so on...
this is day to day work at high altitude which will involve incredible feats of strength, balance and endurance while climbing and descending series of valley walls and slopes covered in scree, traversing paths narrower than the breadth of your foot over precipitous drops, and dangerous tracks across the backs of razor sharp ridges etc. etc. - perhaps twenty miles of this in a day without a second thought
the first time I saw this kind of casual (and thoroughly stoned) physical endurance in action was on a beautiful evening when I was sat by a river with a Pashtun friend and a local Ismaeli ademzada (aristocrat) swapping joints of charas... to all sides of us were vast red and golden peaks of the Hindu Kush and Hindu Raj mountains...
I noticed a growing cloud of dust on the towering opposite wall of the valley a mile or so away and pointed out to my friends what I took to be a small landslide or fall of scree... I was quickly corrected - no, (foolish Angrese) this red cloud was in fact a shepherd walking back from his day's work... and he had descended from the ridge top and bounded perhaps 700 or 800 metres in a minute or less, and continued to make his way to the green valley below... these are folk who to a man would think nothing of jumping their way down a scree slope like that... they do such things all day long, dawn till dusk...
in the regions with which I'm familiar cannabis seeds will generally be eaten during the fierce winter months... in the local Khowar dialect of these areas cannabis seeds are known (approx.) as "bong ('o) bee" ... Khowar is an Indo-European language, and both words here show it's close Indic roots cf. bhang, bija etc. ...
n.b. though... in these Hindu Kush regions it is the same strains which are used to produce charas which will be used to for edible seed, since it is seeded "bong" flowers which are sieved to produce garda... this sieving is done simply by stretching tightly woven cloth over large bowls... first grade hashish is made only by lightly sieving... second and third grade will use thinner more open cloth with more effort used to knock the resin glands from the flowers... at the end of this process the farmer is left with on the one hand a great deal of charas, and on the other trichome-less calyxes, twigs and seeds...
in May the "bee" which have not been eaten will be planted in amongst rows of maize, the farmer praying that he will have a crop at the year's end, and not be left by over-zealous police to make a living from apricot, mulberry etc. at subsitence level - or in the case of this year - below subsistence level, waiting for relief funds from central government, NGOs, the EU etc.
it is prohibtion which is needlessly forcing these communities into a state of dependence and helplessness... and when for centuries they have been producing and trading in a highly sought-after, valuable and delectable commodity all of us here love - hashish - we can see already the beginnings of a very simple and felicitous solution...
if I am honest i would say that the world's most pleasurable hashish is being produced in the Yarkhun Valley which runs along the Afghan border in Northern Pakistan - to my mind it has the perfect blend of physical and mental warmth coupled with a feeling of potent and uplifting illumination... folk in Europe and North America would happily part with good money for this, fairly traded and so on...
as much as anywhere, these regions desperately need the right to legally produce hashish under license from the government... how else can these rural economies sustain the infrastructure they so desperately need, how else can they afford adequately staffed and stocked schools, and how else can they generate the much needed affluence and security which will prevent their culture from descending into the appaling extremism like that of Waziristan and Helmand?
moreover, with the taxes raised by such a trade it would then be possible to raise the capital to pay the local police force, raise the salaries of local civil servants and thereby prevent the otherwise inevitable administrative corruption which allows for the flow of heroin from the nearby Wakhan and Badakshan opium growing regions into Chitral
it's all just common sense really, as ever
Ngakpa
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Ngakpa Great insight into there day to day lives. What I am wondering is how they grow there plants? Do they give them the care we do? what do they use for ferts and in general there thoughts on growing , breeding and preserving there treasured genetics. Im sure it varys from farmer to farmer but can you give use some insight into these questions?
grizz said:
Thanks Grizz, it's a pleasure - I am doing my best right now to put together some formal articles on this subject for publication
Charas production has been illegal in Pakistan since the '70s, but police pressure has become very intense in the Hindu Kush regions I am referring to in the past couple of years.... this has meant that growing has had to become increasingly clandestine... there is still commercial production, but these growers mostly produce adulterated hashish... this is not the lowgrade cut "henna hash" you can buy in Lahore or Peshawar, but is more often adulterated either with pressed oil from seeds, or in more recent years simply with cooking oil... at first sight to an uninformed outsider such cut hash would look and smells pretty good, but then when smoked the room takes on the smell of a Tooting 'bab shop... (a local charsi would of course know straight away that this was charas that had been mixed with cooking oil, from the consistency, colour and the very light background aroma of veg/sunflower oil)
the farmers I know personally were all "charsi"s - smokers - as most men from the Kush regions have been since way back... they care for their plants greatly, and more importantly are intensely proud of the quality of the strains and the hashish from their region... farming there is all old style irrigation with organic animal shit decomposed and dug in... plants are naturally vigorous and reach approx. 3 metres in height
selection as far as I know mostly involves removing plants which show signs of weakness during the vegetative growth stage... my guess (only a guess) is that it is unusual for a farmer to deliberately retain seeds from a particularly fine female, and that once the sieving process is complete all seeds are simply mixed togther... likewise I guess (again this is a guess) that the only selection criteria for the retained pollinating males is vigour and sound growth habit... there was a limit to the information I was able to glean during my visit on deeper knowledge regarding breeding and cultivation
but yes, within growing valleys certain villages and farmers are as you guessed renowned for having especially fine hashish and I personally visited many... the particular farmer from whom I obtained the very best hashish (and seeds) which I found was an intensely shy man - also very friendly - and much as I wished to question him further via the gent interpreting for me, I also did not wish to intrude for more than a few rounds of joints and a couple of cups of tea... many of the questions I wished to ask him were left unanswered... n.b. his version of the local hashish strain was emphatically a narrow-leafed indica
generally most charsi-s (as opposed to growers) just said that the main issue with whether hashish is good or not is how careful the farmer is during sieving... i.e. the popular understanding and focus is on the hash itself - is it first, second, or third quality... if there is a deeper science to breeding in the region it is specialised knowledge of farmers
every farmer I spoke to in these regions was a worried man - more than is standard for a farmer... understanding is spreading greatly regarding environmental pressures in these regions and I spoke with NGOs who were in the region explaining about global warming and landslide dangers... longterm and shorterm worries are great - I saw for myself many dried up streams, landslides, rapidly collapsing glaciers, blocked roads, and villages where recent tragedies had occured
all of the people I spoke to - from the local rajas and village headmen, to the poorest of farmers - would greatly like to be allowed to once again make an honest living from charas... they realise this is just about the only realistic option they have for empowering themselves as communities... there is only so much money help that the Aga Khan can bring in from the EU
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