G
Guest
Nice girl Raco.
Take care,
BG
Take care,
BG
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the KUSH thread
- Thread starter OG bub
- Start date
- Status
wow this thread is PULSING with some of the most experienced and respectd folks on the forums, imo!
I feel a good aura, I think nothing but good will come of this all.!
I need to read a bit more on the recent posts.. AN beautiful! Ill resapond soon. Raco, if you can recite something from Clarke's work, go for it! thank you for yer additions, and NICE PTK!
Peace, bub.
I feel a good aura, I think nothing but good will come of this all.!
I need to read a bit more on the recent posts.. AN beautiful! Ill resapond soon. Raco, if you can recite something from Clarke's work, go for it! thank you for yer additions, and NICE PTK!
Peace, bub.
G
Guest
in responce to A.N. OTHER , iHAVE ALWAYS WONDERED if cannabis dident evolve from one type, and envirement being the determning factor in developing what type of plant develops over thousands of years. It certainaly sounds like what happened to the brit hemp growers. and muddy waters the og mountain range is just east of the bubba sierra range also known for fruit and nut production.
G
Guest
I just love reading about all this stuff ... I do crave the knowledge and wish the thread could stay civil. Kush seems to be some of the most mysterious, wanted and unavailable types of Mj out there or not out there. Take your pick. I almost feel I don't even rate to post here. Just know that if there ever were seeds available of any of the Kushes pictured in this thread I would be one of the first to try and get them. Sadly like most I can only set back and stare at what you guys are lucky enough to have access to everyday. You all should feel lucky rather than fighting about it. Keep posting up those sick ass pics for me to drool over.
Take Care and great thread OGB
Mo,
Take Care and great thread OGB
Mo,
muddy waters
Active member
so clarke says indica was only domesticated in the last century? but it seems too from descriptions of PTK and others, and what bub's written, that the Kush region involved the making of the first indica-sativa hybrids.
btw I'm surprised Clarke uses C. sativa and C. indica... if they were different species wouldn't that mean they couldn't breed fertile offspring?
btw I'm surprised Clarke uses C. sativa and C. indica... if they were different species wouldn't that mean they couldn't breed fertile offspring?
muddy,
from Hashish! page 368:
"Cannabis indica-the species name originally used by Lamarck in 1783 to describe the cannabis species originating in India.In common usage,Indica is used to denote the broad-leafed cannabis varieties originating in Afghanistan and commonly grown in the West since the 1980s for sinsemila marijuana production.These afghani varieties would be better named "c. afghanica".Although a misnomer,"indica" is used in this book in it´s popular sense to avoid confusion"
hope this helps
from Hashish! page 368:
"Cannabis indica-the species name originally used by Lamarck in 1783 to describe the cannabis species originating in India.In common usage,Indica is used to denote the broad-leafed cannabis varieties originating in Afghanistan and commonly grown in the West since the 1980s for sinsemila marijuana production.These afghani varieties would be better named "c. afghanica".Although a misnomer,"indica" is used in this book in it´s popular sense to avoid confusion"
hope this helps
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Hiya,
I will do my best to wade through the rest of this thread, but I will just start out by adding my own comments on the quote from RCC which Tom Hill has kindly posted.
The comments of mine are on the basis of recent field experience of my own etc. and should not be taken as gospel, merely personal opinions
Firstly to talk about a single Hindu Kush strain is deeply misleading, a point I think most afficianados here are clear on...
RCC firstly defines the Hindu Kush range a little inaccurately. He writes: "Hindu Kush Range - Cannabis indica (Afghanistan and Pakistan) - (30 to 37 north latitude)"
this is a little pedantic of me, but the Hindu Kush range also includes parts of Tajikistan - nb. Mriko has said elsewhere that he thinks the silk sieving technique could likely have originated in Tajik regions
RCC writes: "This strain is characterized by short, broad plants with thick, brittle woody stems and short internodes."
the notion that C. indica drug cultivars are typically short plants of no more than about two metres tall is very common among growers - I have no idea how this belief became so common...
If we go along with RCC and include Mazar within the Hindu Kush category, then I would say this: The Mazar-i-Sharif strain I have personally collected will produce plants of around 4 metres tall; this is typical of such strains...
Chitrali hashish strains are typically about 3 metres tall; the shortest indicas I know of are those grown in the Tribal Agencies such as Orakzai which are around 2 metres in height...
RCC writes: Early maturation and extreme resin production is characteristic of these strains. This may be the result of acclimatization to northern temperate latitudes and selection for hashish production.
RCC seems to overlook that whenever these strains are harvested they are used to make hashish - as he well knows of course - but my point is simply that considerations of maturity/early finishing time of that kind are of much more concern to a western sensimilla grower, not a charas grower... mriko has mentioned finding Mazar hash which had been made from very early harvested Mazar plants... it was a bright red colour... by December the Mazar plants will have turned blood red with the cold... hence the dark black colour of good Afghan charas
...from personal conversation with growers in the Hindu Kush I was repeatedly told that hashish strains greatly enjoy a cold finish - and furthermore that growers prefer to leave harvest as late as possible if they wish to produce superior hasish... i have not heard of any farmers selecting for early maturing strains... November and December is harvest time... in the temperate zones there is only one harvest... in one higher altitude growing region i heard of harvest taking place in September/October
but the point is this - it is not cold temperatures which force harvest to occur, it is the fact that the plants could not withstand the weight of snowfall and the intense winds of winter in Central Asia
RCC writes: Sweet aromas do often develop but this strain usually loses the sweet fragrance early, along with the clear, cerebral psychoactivity.
I would personally describe Mazar hashish as having a conspicuous sweet aroma, as well as being - as i understand it - very psychoactive; good Chitrali hashish I found to be potent, but also clear and warm
RCC writes: Short stature, early maturation, and high resin production make Hindu Kush strains very desirable for hybridizing and indeed they have met with great popularity. The gene pool of imported Hindu Kush strains seems to be dominant for these desirable characteristics and they seem readily passed on to the F1 hybrid generation.
... with all respect to RCC, I suspect he may have based many of his observations on imported Hindu Kush strains on which selections had already been made by Western growers, rather than exclusively focusing on field observations in the Hindu Kush...
BC will be making the Mazar, Tirah and HK #2 and HK 3# available, so please be patient... the obstacles are entirely of my making so any griping can be aimed in my direction
I will do my best to wade through the rest of this thread, but I will just start out by adding my own comments on the quote from RCC which Tom Hill has kindly posted.
The comments of mine are on the basis of recent field experience of my own etc. and should not be taken as gospel, merely personal opinions
Firstly to talk about a single Hindu Kush strain is deeply misleading, a point I think most afficianados here are clear on...
RCC firstly defines the Hindu Kush range a little inaccurately. He writes: "Hindu Kush Range - Cannabis indica (Afghanistan and Pakistan) - (30 to 37 north latitude)"
this is a little pedantic of me, but the Hindu Kush range also includes parts of Tajikistan - nb. Mriko has said elsewhere that he thinks the silk sieving technique could likely have originated in Tajik regions
RCC writes: "This strain is characterized by short, broad plants with thick, brittle woody stems and short internodes."
the notion that C. indica drug cultivars are typically short plants of no more than about two metres tall is very common among growers - I have no idea how this belief became so common...
If we go along with RCC and include Mazar within the Hindu Kush category, then I would say this: The Mazar-i-Sharif strain I have personally collected will produce plants of around 4 metres tall; this is typical of such strains...
Chitrali hashish strains are typically about 3 metres tall; the shortest indicas I know of are those grown in the Tribal Agencies such as Orakzai which are around 2 metres in height...
RCC writes: Early maturation and extreme resin production is characteristic of these strains. This may be the result of acclimatization to northern temperate latitudes and selection for hashish production.
RCC seems to overlook that whenever these strains are harvested they are used to make hashish - as he well knows of course - but my point is simply that considerations of maturity/early finishing time of that kind are of much more concern to a western sensimilla grower, not a charas grower... mriko has mentioned finding Mazar hash which had been made from very early harvested Mazar plants... it was a bright red colour... by December the Mazar plants will have turned blood red with the cold... hence the dark black colour of good Afghan charas
...from personal conversation with growers in the Hindu Kush I was repeatedly told that hashish strains greatly enjoy a cold finish - and furthermore that growers prefer to leave harvest as late as possible if they wish to produce superior hasish... i have not heard of any farmers selecting for early maturing strains... November and December is harvest time... in the temperate zones there is only one harvest... in one higher altitude growing region i heard of harvest taking place in September/October
but the point is this - it is not cold temperatures which force harvest to occur, it is the fact that the plants could not withstand the weight of snowfall and the intense winds of winter in Central Asia
RCC writes: Sweet aromas do often develop but this strain usually loses the sweet fragrance early, along with the clear, cerebral psychoactivity.
I would personally describe Mazar hashish as having a conspicuous sweet aroma, as well as being - as i understand it - very psychoactive; good Chitrali hashish I found to be potent, but also clear and warm
RCC writes: Short stature, early maturation, and high resin production make Hindu Kush strains very desirable for hybridizing and indeed they have met with great popularity. The gene pool of imported Hindu Kush strains seems to be dominant for these desirable characteristics and they seem readily passed on to the F1 hybrid generation.
... with all respect to RCC, I suspect he may have based many of his observations on imported Hindu Kush strains on which selections had already been made by Western growers, rather than exclusively focusing on field observations in the Hindu Kush...
BC will be making the Mazar, Tirah and HK #2 and HK 3# available, so please be patient... the obstacles are entirely of my making so any griping can be aimed in my direction
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muddy waters said:
IMO Clarke's only source for stating this is Valilov's explorations atthe turn of the 20th century. During which he only saw what he felt were sativa cultivars being cultivated as both drug phenotypes for hashish and fiber phenotypes for household purposes he saw two indica subspecies he referred to as afghanica and kafiristanica. One being large seeded the other small seeded unlike modern indica cultivars produced seeds which freely shattered from floral clusters reinforcing his observations that these plants were wild. Farbeit from me to know what is going through Clarke's head but if that is the case and vavilov is his only source for thinking that indica was undomesticated at this time then and if Vavilov was correct then we really should think about what Vavilov meant when he referred to an Indica. He was probably going by LaMarck's definition of indica which considered indicas short plants with less attention paid to floral structure and more paid to branching and size. Taller plants with broader branching despite having wide leaves and dense resinous flowers may have been lumped into the sativa category by vavilov simply from evolving under cultivation where they were less at the mercy of the driness or lack of fertility in the soil even if they were closely related. I have a picture of a plate of cannabis Indica from the LaMarck herbarium as well as a picture of Richard Evan Schultes in Afghanistan studying drug plants when he wrote his paper creating the more modern definition of the species Cannabis Indica which he is ruored to have written on behalf of defending Timothy Leary when charged with posessing Cannabis Sativa to assist him with creating a legal loophole uploaded to our site but I dont think I can link to it from here. The problem here I believe lies in that most interpretations of Clarke's references to Indica assume that he is using the Richard Evan Schultes definition which is the more modern definition used frequently by illicit growers and Vavilov was using the original LaMarck reference. To make matters more complicated the most modern definition used in botany is a reference to all drug cannabis.
Also it is a common misconception that differing plant species cannot produce fertile offspring. Although he seems to have been rumored to have a political motive I still highly doubt that schultes, the head of the Harvard botany dept at the time wouldve created a system labelling two plants as different species if the rule was that the simply couldnt prduce fertile offspring. Orchids are a good example. In nature these plants cannot cross species and produce fertile offspring. However this is because bees pollinate orchids with extreme precision often passing over a number of plants of the same species before pollinating the correct one. for this reason several orchids have evolved no internal mechanism for prevention of the creation of fertile hybrids. The bees evolved the mechanism for this process but not the orchids. The definition of what delineates a species really varies from botanist to botanist but one condition that is always put on the fertile offspring rule is they cannot produce fertile offspring without human assistance. Therefore if a species is brought to an area and pollinates a wld species producing fertile offspring the plants can still be different species because it would not have happened without human intervention. Now this rule still isnt always appled by everyone and like I said it is a subject that is frequently debated in biology circles to this day. The rule also has very limited application even in the field of botany because there are many species of plant that dont engage in sexual reproduction and dont flower like ferns or moss species that reproduce by spores in a manner similar to most types of fungi, cacti also produce species that create exceptions and difficult ways to apply this rule but thats a different thread.
PS sorry for the really long unpunctuated sentences I think the Colombian plants are forcing me to type really long unpunctuated sentences like the Colombians I know.
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the security situation in Afghanistan doesn't need much introduction - and as it is the principal drug crop in the Afghan Hindu Kush is nowadays opium, right through to the Wakhan Corridor...
since the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) incident in July Pakistan has become a very dangerous place to be no matter who you are or where you are from... there have been close to two hundred "terrorism"-related deaths in the last month, more for all I know
in brief - none of the charas producing regions in Pakistan could themselves be reasonably described as safe as of this July, nor are any of the regions through which they can be accessed by road...
ISI officers now visit all establishments known to be frequented by foreigners - hotel owners even in areas with reputations for being safe have been advised to hire armed security guards, on top of the weapons which they would routinely keep to hand
the most likely danger is arguably kidnap - this can involve being sold on repeatedly to different groups, and may result in simply being shot; there is also now a good chance of hotels being bombed
if you are thinking of visiting then no matter how skeptical you are of what you read in the media day to day, you should put that skepticism aside and start paying attention - it has a meaningful bearing on reality in so far as it comes to your safety
this is some of the British Foreign Office advice:
"We advise against all travel to areas where there are reports of military or militant activity. This applies particularly to northern and western Balochistan, including the Sui/Dera Bugti and Kohlu areas, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas including Waziristan, Swat (North West Frontier Province), and border areas except of official crossing points. We advise against using the rail network and buses in Balochistan. Special advice applies to the Karakorum Highway. See the Terrorism and Sectarian Violence and Local Travel sections of this travel advice for more details.
We advise against all but essential travel to Quetta (Balochistan) because of the unsettled security situation there.
There is a high threat from terrorism and sectarian violence throughout Pakistan. Attacks can be indiscriminate and in public places, including those frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. July 2007 has seen a significant deterioration in the security situation and Pakistani security authorities have warned of threats of attacks against international hotels in Islamabad. You should avoid any large gatherings and demonstrations. Since January 2007 there has been a series of attacks and suicide bombings targeted both at the authorities and at locations frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. See the Terrorism and Sectarian Violence section of this travel advice for more details.
The Pakistani authorities have heightened security across the country due to threats of retaliatory attacks on Government targets, particularly in the tribal areas. This follows military action carried out by the Pakistani security forces, between 3-11 July, against militant Islamists occupying the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) and associated seminary in central Islamabad."
There is a high threat from terrorism throughout Pakistan.
There is reliable evidence that terrorists continue to target Western, including British, interests and individuals throughout Pakistan. In July 2007, Pakistani security authorities have warned of threats of attacks against international hotels in Islamabad. You should satisfy yourself in advance of standards of security at your chosen hotel, and for up-to-date advice should contact the Security Section of the British High Commission.
The major cities are particularly vulnerable to indiscriminate bombing and other attacks, including kidnapping. Owing to high levels of security at Western embassies, international organisations and international hotels, more vulnerable targets such as clubs, restaurants (including Western style fast food outlets), places of worship and schools are also at risk. Some bomb attacks have involved consecutive explosions. On 2 March 2006, a bomb exploded outside the US Consulate in Karachi, killing several and injuring about 50 people. In 2006, there were a number of bombings in Karachi and Lahore, including at locations frequented by Westerners.
July 2007 has seen a significant deterioration in the security situation. Since 12 July, at least 180 people have been killed in suicide bombings in North West Frontier Province, Islamabad, North Waziristan and on the Balochistan/Sindh border. These have been targeted primarily on security forces, but other attacks include:
19 July 2007: bomb attack on a convoy carrying Chinese engineers at Hub (Baluchistan/Sindh border), at least 22 people killed.
17 July 2007: suicide bomb attack on a lawyers’ rally in Islamabad, at least 16 killed.
Since January 2007 there has been a series of attacks and suicide bombings targeted both at the authorities and at locations frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. The Pakistani authorities have increased security throughout Pakistan due to the threat of further imminent attacks. Significant attacks include:
6 February 2007: bomber exploded a grenade outside Islamabad International Airport.
26 January 2007: suicide bomb exploded outside the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad.
We advise against all travel to areas where there are ongoing reports of military or militant activity. This applies particularly to Waziristan, and to northern and western Balochistan including the Sui/DeraBugti and Kohlu areas, and Swat (North West Frontier Province). You should avoid travel by bus (as well as rail) in Balochistan. We advise against all but essential travel to Quetta because of the unsettled security situation there. If you still plan to travel to Quetta, you should contact the Security section of the British Deputy High Commission, Karachi (00 92 21 582 7000) in advance for current advice.
There are intermittent surges in sectarian violence throughout Pakistan. Incidents often escalate quickly and have included murders and suicide bombings. Attacks have occurred in Karachi, Islamabad, Quetta, Gilgit and the Northern Areas. The cities of central Punjab, as well as Quetta and Karachi, are at particular risk from Sunni-Shia violence. Visitors of recognisably Western origin should avoid the vicinity of mosques at busy prayer times, especially on Fridays.
Please read the Security and General Tips and Risk of Terrorism when Travelling Overseas on the FCO website for further information and advice.
Criminal and other Violence
On 10 July 2007, there were attacks against International non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) in the area of Batgram (North West Frontier Province), which sits on the main road from Abbottabad to Gilgit. Travellers in transit should remain alert. The UN co-ordinator has advised foreign staff to leave the area. All aid workers in the area should remain in touch with local UN co-ordination officials and the Pakistani authorities for the latest security advice.
Criminal violence, including armed car-jacking, robbery, kidnap and murder, is common, especially in Karachi. Travellers have been offered drugged food and then robbed. You should be very careful about, and confident of your personal security arrangements throughout your visit.
Much of Balochistan, rural Sindh and the North West Frontier Province, including the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas and Agencies, have a high incidence of lawlessness.
since the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) incident in July Pakistan has become a very dangerous place to be no matter who you are or where you are from... there have been close to two hundred "terrorism"-related deaths in the last month, more for all I know
in brief - none of the charas producing regions in Pakistan could themselves be reasonably described as safe as of this July, nor are any of the regions through which they can be accessed by road...
ISI officers now visit all establishments known to be frequented by foreigners - hotel owners even in areas with reputations for being safe have been advised to hire armed security guards, on top of the weapons which they would routinely keep to hand
the most likely danger is arguably kidnap - this can involve being sold on repeatedly to different groups, and may result in simply being shot; there is also now a good chance of hotels being bombed
if you are thinking of visiting then no matter how skeptical you are of what you read in the media day to day, you should put that skepticism aside and start paying attention - it has a meaningful bearing on reality in so far as it comes to your safety
this is some of the British Foreign Office advice:
"We advise against all travel to areas where there are reports of military or militant activity. This applies particularly to northern and western Balochistan, including the Sui/Dera Bugti and Kohlu areas, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas including Waziristan, Swat (North West Frontier Province), and border areas except of official crossing points. We advise against using the rail network and buses in Balochistan. Special advice applies to the Karakorum Highway. See the Terrorism and Sectarian Violence and Local Travel sections of this travel advice for more details.
We advise against all but essential travel to Quetta (Balochistan) because of the unsettled security situation there.
There is a high threat from terrorism and sectarian violence throughout Pakistan. Attacks can be indiscriminate and in public places, including those frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. July 2007 has seen a significant deterioration in the security situation and Pakistani security authorities have warned of threats of attacks against international hotels in Islamabad. You should avoid any large gatherings and demonstrations. Since January 2007 there has been a series of attacks and suicide bombings targeted both at the authorities and at locations frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. See the Terrorism and Sectarian Violence section of this travel advice for more details.
The Pakistani authorities have heightened security across the country due to threats of retaliatory attacks on Government targets, particularly in the tribal areas. This follows military action carried out by the Pakistani security forces, between 3-11 July, against militant Islamists occupying the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) and associated seminary in central Islamabad."
There is a high threat from terrorism throughout Pakistan.
There is reliable evidence that terrorists continue to target Western, including British, interests and individuals throughout Pakistan. In July 2007, Pakistani security authorities have warned of threats of attacks against international hotels in Islamabad. You should satisfy yourself in advance of standards of security at your chosen hotel, and for up-to-date advice should contact the Security Section of the British High Commission.
The major cities are particularly vulnerable to indiscriminate bombing and other attacks, including kidnapping. Owing to high levels of security at Western embassies, international organisations and international hotels, more vulnerable targets such as clubs, restaurants (including Western style fast food outlets), places of worship and schools are also at risk. Some bomb attacks have involved consecutive explosions. On 2 March 2006, a bomb exploded outside the US Consulate in Karachi, killing several and injuring about 50 people. In 2006, there were a number of bombings in Karachi and Lahore, including at locations frequented by Westerners.
July 2007 has seen a significant deterioration in the security situation. Since 12 July, at least 180 people have been killed in suicide bombings in North West Frontier Province, Islamabad, North Waziristan and on the Balochistan/Sindh border. These have been targeted primarily on security forces, but other attacks include:
19 July 2007: bomb attack on a convoy carrying Chinese engineers at Hub (Baluchistan/Sindh border), at least 22 people killed.
17 July 2007: suicide bomb attack on a lawyers’ rally in Islamabad, at least 16 killed.
Since January 2007 there has been a series of attacks and suicide bombings targeted both at the authorities and at locations frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. The Pakistani authorities have increased security throughout Pakistan due to the threat of further imminent attacks. Significant attacks include:
6 February 2007: bomber exploded a grenade outside Islamabad International Airport.
26 January 2007: suicide bomb exploded outside the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad.
We advise against all travel to areas where there are ongoing reports of military or militant activity. This applies particularly to Waziristan, and to northern and western Balochistan including the Sui/DeraBugti and Kohlu areas, and Swat (North West Frontier Province). You should avoid travel by bus (as well as rail) in Balochistan. We advise against all but essential travel to Quetta because of the unsettled security situation there. If you still plan to travel to Quetta, you should contact the Security section of the British Deputy High Commission, Karachi (00 92 21 582 7000) in advance for current advice.
There are intermittent surges in sectarian violence throughout Pakistan. Incidents often escalate quickly and have included murders and suicide bombings. Attacks have occurred in Karachi, Islamabad, Quetta, Gilgit and the Northern Areas. The cities of central Punjab, as well as Quetta and Karachi, are at particular risk from Sunni-Shia violence. Visitors of recognisably Western origin should avoid the vicinity of mosques at busy prayer times, especially on Fridays.
Please read the Security and General Tips and Risk of Terrorism when Travelling Overseas on the FCO website for further information and advice.
Criminal and other Violence
On 10 July 2007, there were attacks against International non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) in the area of Batgram (North West Frontier Province), which sits on the main road from Abbottabad to Gilgit. Travellers in transit should remain alert. The UN co-ordinator has advised foreign staff to leave the area. All aid workers in the area should remain in touch with local UN co-ordination officials and the Pakistani authorities for the latest security advice.
Criminal violence, including armed car-jacking, robbery, kidnap and murder, is common, especially in Karachi. Travellers have been offered drugged food and then robbed. You should be very careful about, and confident of your personal security arrangements throughout your visit.
Much of Balochistan, rural Sindh and the North West Frontier Province, including the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas and Agencies, have a high incidence of lawlessness.
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Thanks for the warning!
Thanks for the warning!
What I think I'll do instead is save-up for 50 of Sensi's Mother's Finest, and have a fine time looking for something special. My apologies if this is off topic, and feel free to delete if you feel that it detracts from the conversation.
phrank
Thanks for the warning!
What I think I'll do instead is save-up for 50 of Sensi's Mother's Finest, and have a fine time looking for something special. My apologies if this is off topic, and feel free to delete if you feel that it detracts from the conversation.
phrank
PUFFS-ENUFF
Member
Pistils in Hindu Kush strains are quite often magenta or pink
in color when they first appear.
From clarkes Botany......How many of you guys find this to be true
in color when they first appear.
From clarkes Botany......How many of you guys find this to be true
I
indicalover
Hey Zam, what can you tell us about the Purple Kush that you guys offer?
G
Guest
Lol, I love kush stories, their so unrealistic and blown up... gets you to wonder if half that even happened... still interesting background, but way over my head...I get stoned a lot though 
- Status
