What's new

*The K.I.S.S. Method*

DoDad

Member
More watering=more oxygen in the root zone=explosive growth. I like to completely replace the rez daily with one drench to run off. I use 2 gallon buckets, so mature plants suck them dry overnight.

I have been watering 4 times a day @ 700 PPM for a couple of days now with no ill effects, so far.

Temps in my tent range from 85-95*F and I have a stiff breeze in there. I'm in 1 gallon pots and I do need to water every 24 hours or my plants start to wilt. My plants are just about 1 month old.

I am Loving this watering system. My progression went from:

Option 1. Removing all my plants from one room and hauling them to the kitchen, watering them one at a time, draining. Hauling them back to the tent.

Option 2. Then I designed a DTW. Leaving them in place and watering them everyday, let them drain to waste. Drain the runoff once every two days.

Option 3. Now, I do nothing but check PH in main res once a day and listen to the pump turn on.

I like option 3 better.

This system uses less water, less nutes by a sizable margin over DTW too. I am only recycling about 4 gallons of water for (8) 1 gallon pots. I'm figuring to change the 4 gallons once a week if the PH shifts or not.

My main technical problem this system solved was getting the res out of the tent. The temps and the light in my tent were always higher than my outside temperature and this was causing shifts in PH in just a few hours. Now that the water is stored outside the tent, in cooler temps and in the dark, my PH seems much more stable or has been for the first two days.

Also dealing with large amounts of water in such tightly enclosed area as a 2'x3' foot tent was a recipe for disaster. The floor in my tent was wet all the time raising the humidity and chance for diseases, mold on the carpet, electrocution, etc. Now it's all a sealed system and the business end of my day to day is outside the tent where I have room to maneuver. The floor of my tent is bone dry.

I originally wanted to run DWC but because my PH wasn't stable and the res temps would have been at 80-95* I didn't think that was a good option unless my goal was changing all gallons of nutes every day and root rot.

Maybe I solved the root rot issue by having the res in the hempy buckets replaced 4 times a day. I still have roots in water just like a DWC but hopefully without the headaches my personal situation presented.

Yes it's true, it took a few days and a few dollars to get this watering system online, but I think the results will be worth it both in ease of operation and growth. I can't attest to the later just yet, but the former seems quite evident.
 

sidewing

Member
Dude, you are seriously out to lunch! You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm going on many years of experience and my own knowledge, not what someone else posted, especially not you. When nitrogen is burned, it becomes nitrogen oxide, which is a toxic carcinogen. But of course, you wouldn't know that, because as I said, you are totally clueless. You should not be dispensing advice at all, IMO. You should be listening. Telling people that they should be using more nitrogen in flower is just stupid, especially in this thread, which is about Maxibloom, which works all the way through precisely because it does not have too much nitrogen in flower. Get a clue, or start your own thread about growing with a high nitrogen nutrient line throughout flower, instead of mucking up this thread and dispensing bad advice. Pump your flowering plants with nitrogen, and smoke all that nitrogen oxide, but don't "advise" others to do the same. Your "500 PPMs" mantra is idiotic. 800 PPMs is already PROVEN to work, by many people, which is why so many people use this system and why this thread has been going for years. One more time, since you seem to be particularly obtuse, the PPMs are STRAIN dependent. Different strains require different amounts of nutrients, and different size plants also require different amounts. Maybe YOUR plants like what you are doing, and maybe you like high nitrogen in your flowering plants, but this does not apply to anyone else. You're in your own world of delusion. This method works, regardless of what you think.

i dont recall ever saying once that maxibloom didnt work. in fact i said it does work, it's just not the PROVEN ideal ratios for cannabis growth. maybe read more carefully. knowledge doesnt come with years. you obviously don't know how the plant works because you think the nitrogen is in the BUDS. but hey, your many years of experience i guess you know it all and have nothing left to learn. i also said im not here to argue and i was done posting. leaves convert nutrients to sugars and transport it to the buds. you will never be smoking nitrogen oxide because your nutrients have nitrogen in them, thats just retarded.

maybe you should step outside the box and actually research actual studies and gain some general botany knowledge and stop thinking just because you've been doing something for a while means that you are doing it right, and you have nothing left to learn. to say a plant doesnt need proper levels of nitrogen (a MACRO nutrient that plays an important roll in every aspect of the plants function including flower) is saying enough about your logic. I dont want or need to argue with someone that's stuck on the wrong methods. If you ever actually read what I said, yours and others methods all work just fine, theres plenty of different ways to do things and achieve 'success'. the point is, if you want to dial your nutrients in and actually achieve higher levels of quality and success... then you have more to learn.
 

DoDad

Member
I put 4 rooted clones in a 5 gal DWC today at 400 ppm to see how maxibloom works on clones. Is that typically where you guys start with rooted clones?

Yesterday, I did some pretty major defoliation. Borderline lollipoping. I read not to cut more than 20% of the plant at any one time and think I was right on the edge or over on a few. I was concerned after the cuttings I had taken too much and watched them close.

They just sat there in shock for a few hours, stinking up the place then after a few cycles of watering, they took off again. Leaves are downright perky.

My plants seem healthy and strong and it's so simple. No PH, no additives, just mix and pour.

I have some other nutes I bought and now never use. I wonder if using Botanicare Liquid Karma or Hydroplex would have any benefit along with Maxibloom. I understand there is no need for it, but is there any benefit that might be gained to use these as I already own it?
 

sidewing

Member
And just fyi, have you ever ran a 3-1-2 ratio in flower? If not it seems you are the one who is guilty of judging a formula you've never tried. Because I've ran maxi, I've ran low n high p. I've ran 1-1-1. I've done the pk boosts. I've done soil mixes, bottled nutrients, dry salts, store bought and custom formulations. soil, dwc, and aeroponics. Flushing, no flushing, leeching, and everything between. Anything I talk about, I've ran personally and seen personal results. Any advice I give is first hand. And I can tell you online there's a lot of misinformation on the cannabis forums. That being said, a lot of things work, some better than others. Like I've already said, if is working and you're happy by all means stick to it. If you want to learn more, then that's what I'm sharing. I've never intended or felt I mislead anybody. Most people are he say she say. Anything I say is first hand experiments and results. I have nothing more to say on the matter, as you said this thread is maxi, and I'll check myself out unless its related strictly to maxibloom.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys,
I've recently switched to the KISS Method. I use 1 scoop of Maxi per gallon with straight tap. Things are great! This morning I also transplanted into 5 gal Hempy buckets. I figured this would be the staple of "Keepin it simple stoner" although I've never grown with the progressive hydro before.
So my question is with 1 tsp per and the bucket size taken into account, how many days in between Rez changes or watering with my 20-30 % run off?
Thanks in advance peace
 

sidewing

Member
I put 4 rooted clones in a 5 gal DWC today at 400 ppm to see how maxibloom works on clones. Is that typically where you guys start with rooted clones?

Yesterday, I did some pretty major defoliation. Borderline lollipoping. I read not to cut more than 20% of the plant at any one time and think I was right on the edge or over on a few. I was concerned after the cuttings I had taken too much and watched them close.

They just sat there in shock for a few hours, stinking up the place then after a few cycles of watering, they took off again. Leaves are downright perky.

My plants seem healthy and strong and it's so simple. No PH, no additives, just mix and pour.

I have some other nutes I bought and now never use. I wonder if using Botanicare Liquid Karma or Hydroplex would have any benefit along with Maxibloom. I understand there is no need for it, but is there any benefit that might be gained to use these as I already own it?

This is my opinion, so take it as you may.. in DWC, its better to top your plants, and keep them short and squat, then to remove lower growth to lollipop.. because during the flowering stretch they will blow up vertically. what i do in my dwc setup is top the nodes that are growing taller than the rest so all the lower nodes will grow up to the top, so all your tops are equal height. stop topping a week before you switch over to 12/12 to start flowering.

if you did it right, you dont have to lollipop your plants in flower because you wont have any lower growth that is being overshadowed from the top.

in my opinion there is no benefit to adding hydroplex. it's a pk booster, which will just throw off your ratios and cause a misbalance in your nutrient ratios, may result in deficiencies of calcium, magnesium, and micro nutrients due to all the phosphorus (P) blocking the uptake of the mentioned nutrients.

try to remember more is not better, you must keep your nutrient ratios balanced. for example a lot of times when people think they are having a calcium/magnesium issue, they add calmag and it fixes their issue.. but the real issue is a misbalance of their nutrients, having too little nitrogen, and toomuch phosphorus.. blocking proper uptake of Ca/Mg.. they thing its just Cal/Mag, but by adding cal/mag they're also adding nitrogen.. (look at the label of Calmag, it has nitrogen).
It's funny how many people use CalMag as a crutch simply because of incorrect ratios.
Think of it like this, your doctor puts you on a medication because you have a symptom/condition.. then you develop a side effect, now you take another medication to fix that.. so on and so forth.. you end up having to add several other medications (or additives in our case).. you arent fixing the original issue, you're just adding more of something to try to fix an issue that was causing by you adding more of something.

as far as the liquid karma, it could have some added benefit as far as keeping the plants healthy and under less stress. use it at 1/4 strength in DWC especially.. but in all honesty it's not going to do much. the main thing that makes liquid karma special is the humic acid. but humic acid is better in soil application, as it needs microbes to break it down. the beneficial bacteria in the soil.

in hydro you must use fulvic acid which chelates nutrients and makes them more available. fulvic acid is available across the PH spectrum, humic acid is not. another benefit that liquid karma has is the kelp. kelp is good in flower in moderation. but you can find a soluble kelp additive to use instead if you wanted to go that route.

since you have the products already, speaking from experience because ive used both the products.. ditch the hydroplex and dont use it. liquid karma it shouldnt harm you to use it. but just realize you're working with a product derived from organic material.. and it also has carbs in it. so you may be raising your risk of developing root pathogens which will kill your DWC crop. the major rule in dwc is keep organic material out of your res.. the only way ive seen it work is by running the microbial bacteria tea as i had mentioned previously.. because the good bacteria will keep any bad bacteria under control.

i also have a gallon of liquid karma and ive experienced many times using it different ways in DWC, and ive decided to drop it and just stick to fulvic acid powder instead.

i'd recommend keeping it simple with straight maxibloom until you get at least a couple of good crops under your belt in your setup, then start experimenting with additives and variants.

oh, also.. 400ppm could be ok. maxibloom has lower nitrogen levels, so most people have to feed more to keep from yellowing. more like 700ppm from what ive seen. i dont run maxibloom in veg because maxigrow is made for veg, and its a better product that can be ran at 400-500ppm with no problems at all.

also, when you switch to flower, during the stretch, myself and many others have had plants yellow during the first couple of weeks using straight maxibloom.. once again because the insufficient amount of nitrogen and misbalance of nutrient ratios.. however, if you were to use maxigrow in veg, and maxigrow for the first 1-2 weeks of flower.. you'd be safe to switch to maxibloom at that time and avoid any yellowing.

edit: sorry forgot to mention that a rooted clone does not need lower PPM.. as far as the plant is concerned it's full grown. lower PPM's applies to seedlings.
if you're wanting your plant to root more, give it lower PPM because the plant will shoot more roots to search for food/nutrients it needs. not to be confused saying that a plant with regular/higher ppm's wont grow roots. but if a plant is able to get enough nutrients with the roots it has, it doesnt need to grow anymore. rootzone reflects the tree above surface.. tiny root zone cant support a large tree, so if thats the case, the plant will focus on root growth until it has enough to supply the plant above.. if the root zone is massive and the plant is tiny (due to being over topped), the plant will focus its energy on foliage growth until the balance has been restored.
 
Last edited:

Tonatiuh

its me Dave man open up the door...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
wattup fellaz,
after using this k.i.s.s. method for many,many years in soil with great results,
i recently had to switch to r.o. water because of an issue with the city water here.
when i did it seemed to me like the maxi bloom and kool bloom werent playing well with my r.o water.
does anyone know if i need to add anything to the mix?i dont think the mix needed extra cal/mag as the maxi and kool seem to have enough in them to take the plants thru.

just was wondering if anyone with any experience with r.o water and this method,id like to know if i can just keep on truckin the way i was...maybe they looked like the nutes werent playing well w the water because they were still snapping out of the mess they were in?

ive been bouncing from nute to nute company every few runs trying to find the results i was getting for years w this method.
would love to hear some knowledge from someone using r.o and the maxi and kool bloom.
thank you in advance,
peace-T-
 

audiohi

Well-known member
Veteran
You could try mixing in some tap water with your RO, or possibly humic acid to add a bit of a ph buffer to your water.
 

sidewing

Member
its because your tap water has extra ca/mg already. as ive said before the extra P is throwing off your nutrient balance even further.. my advice is stop trying to force feed P down the plants throat, and just run straight maxibloom. but if you're insistent on using koolbloom, you'll need to add calmag since you're on RO now.

ideally, Nitrogen and Potassium should be about equal, with phosphorus anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5th the level. 3-1-2 is ideal.. with basically equal calcium to nitrogen, and half the magnesium to calicum. maxibloom is 1-3-3 basically. maxibloom is also 5% calcium and 3.5% magnesium.. so the nitrogen : calcium : magnesium ratio is fine.. your issue is coming from raising the P even higher than it already is, and it's blocking the uptake of nitrogen, calcium, and magnesium.. so your two options are lower your P levels by ditching the koolbloom.. or add calmag+ which will add more nitrogen, calcium, and magnesium to your nutrient mix to bring the ratios back closer to balance.. seems sort of dumb to add one product which raises P, only to need to add another product to raise everything else.. when you have the one part product (maxibloom) that works stand alone, why mess it up?
there is no magic product that makes you yield more, monopotassium phosphate (the salt in koolbloom and maxibloom) is the same thing in both.. its just how much is in it, and the fact that maxibloom has other salts in it as well. koolbloom is basically just monopotassium phosphate, and magnesium sulfate (epsom salt). and then they add ammonia nitrogen also.. which is the kind of nitrogen you DONT want late in flower, or ever really.

anyway, take from this what you may.. like i said the only way you're going to stop the yellowing is drop the koolbloom, or add calmag+ if you insist on using it. but please take a moment to look at the ingredient list and research the salts and realize you arent adding any miracle additive, you're just pouring more of the same salts at a wrong ratio, causing yourself a problem that you now need another product to fix, and giving more of your money to the big nutrient companies.. so many similarities between major nutrient companies and major pharmaceutical companies. "you need this to fix this.. oh but now this is wrong, so you have to buy this and take this too".
 

Tonatiuh

its me Dave man open up the door...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
sidewing,although I appreciate the input I think you may have misunderstood the question.
I been at this long enough to know theres no such thing as a "magic product to make you yield more"
the garden is back on track as far as health and the numbers are steadily climbing back to where they used to be also.the thing is is now im using a several part nute that's much more expensive to get the same things I was getting w the ease and price of the maxi.
also I never added the koolbloom until late flower at minimal levels.

I understand what you are saying completely,but I was doing this same system for quite a while with really really nice results......I think I may have made the classic dumb mistake of changing too much at once when I had the issues with the water here....r.o. water,new nutes and new soil all at once...doh!
I think ill do some side by side w a few plants and the dif nutes in my old soil and see what happens.maybe w and w out the koolbloom at the end.but its never hurt me before I went to r.o....like I said,now that I think about it I might have changed too much at once.

much appreciated.

peace-T-
 
Last edited:

DoDad

Member
I defoliated again and flipped today. My leaf growth has been pretty amazing on MB with 4 waterings a day. I hope I get similar flower growth.

I put some rooted clones in a dwc at full strength MB a few days ago and they look great today. I also put one clone in my tent and watering it with full strength nutes 4 times a day, and it's doing fine too.

Sidewings is right. Full strength MB on rooted clones. No problem.

This has me thinking now of just doing 12/12 from clone next run. Full strength MB, the whole way through.

I have 7 plants that all look pretty much like this. As my first attempt, I think I'm doing pretty well.
 

Attachments

  • 1.jpg
    1.jpg
    77 KB · Views: 32
  • 2.jpg
    2.jpg
    75.7 KB · Views: 29
  • 3.jpg
    3.jpg
    73.7 KB · Views: 28

sidewing

Member
sidewing,although I appreciate the input I think you may have misunderstood the question.
I been at this long enough to know theres no such thing as a "magic product to make you yield more"
the garden is back on track as far as health and the numbers are steadily climbing back to where they used to be also.the thing is is now im using a several part nute that's much more expensive to get the same things I was getting w the ease and price of the maxi.
also I never added the koolbloom until late flower at minimal levels.

I understand what you are saying completely,but I was doing this same system for quite a while with really really nice results......I think I may have made the classic dumb mistake of changing too much at once when I had the issues with the water here....r.o. water,new nutes and new soil all at once...doh!
I think ill do some side by side w a few plants and the dif nutes in my old soil and see what happens.maybe w and w out the koolbloom at the end.but its never hurt me before I went to r.o....like I said,now that I think about it I might have changed too much at once.

much appreciated.

peace-T-

Possibly, my apologies. Maxi bloom runs fine with ro, I did it. but after the first 2 weeks of flower. Using it during the stretch will cause problems because of the imbalance. But starting 3rd week on it's fine. Use maxigrow first 2 weeks and in veg to avoid issues. I don't think it's possible to run koolbloom and maxi together without calmag even in a small dose. It just throws things too far out of wack.

In regards to the next post, switching to flower with no veg is fine, but you should run more plants then in a sea of green type style. Even 2 weeks of veg in dwc will do wonders for your final yield.
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Possibly, my apologies. Maxi bloom runs fine with ro, I did it. but after the first 2 weeks of flower. Using it during the stretch will cause problems because of the imbalance. But starting 3rd week on it's fine. Use maxigrow first 2 weeks and in veg to avoid issues.

That's complete BS. It works fine all the way through by itself, as many have attested, including Tonatiuh, who has been using it for years, and guess what? He is one of the very best growers on here. The only one it causes "problems" for is you, which is why you should start your own thread, "sidewing's method". See how many years that thread lasts, and how many people follow you. You said you were done with this thread, but it looks like you are not a man of his word. No surprise. You just can't resist thread crapping.
 

xxxstr8edgexxx

Active member
Veteran
the maxibloom works all the way through. i think it works better with sidewings method in my set up. i dont have to use ro our water is 60 ppms out the tap. it may even be a little low like ro needing some calcium carbonate and mag to stabilize the ph. the thing is they both work i just prefer the results with a switch between veg and grow. the veg in bloom for the first two weeks works really well with the "calmag hungry" varieties. they arent calmag hungry with veg nutes during stretch. i dunno. not saying the mb is not working because ive done it and it works too. its just different. i like the versatility of adding a longer stretch phase on gg4 and also ogkush.. week 2-4 start mb depending on your strain.
i am different in some respect. i cant run only one tank. my veg and bloom are in different buildings. so even if the difference is marginal its no big impediment to simplification to have a veg room nute and a flower room nute. if i want to run the veg nuts longer i dont have a perpetua to worry about mutliple tanks for so iu can do both in one flower room
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
First of all, it's NOT sidewing's/papduc's method. It's just another way of doing things. There are hundreds of them. The point is, this is the K.I.S.S. thread. He can start his own thread, instead of crapping here. See how long it lasts. I'm guessing not too long.
 

audiohi

Well-known member
Veteran
I'm sure everyone has seen it, but here is the GH feeding schedule. It's very close to what keeps being said here. Slightly less then 1 tsp per gallon and even a slight mix of gro and bloom for the transition. Then straight k.i.s.s. from there. And you can even add more supplements if you choose. The formula seems pretty straight forward really.

Too many changes at one time are a bitch. I hope you get that worked out quickly!

picture.php
 

sidewing

Member
You're a character retro. Keep the flaming comments to yourself please. Because you are in no position to offer advice unless it's "retros method". The advice and wisdom I offer is from personal experience if you don't like it or disagree then that's fine, doesn't make it false. I'm glad maxi works well for you. May I ask what your specs are? Ro? Tap? Lighting? Temps? Hydro? Soil? Reason I ask is because you can go back through the thread and see that anyone that runs ro in dwc with maxibloom yellows the first 2 weeks of flower. May not be the case with other surrounding circumstances. But instead of flaming, how about offering some actual factual insight.
Good day
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top