*The K.I.S.S. Method*

[DoDad]

i run 1.2-1.4 max ever in bloom 56-62 p.h.

Thanks. That's 600-700 PPM and I'm right in that range.

How do you get them up to that range?

When do you feed them 1/4th, 1/2 then full strength?

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

just thought id give everyone an update.

So whats up guys im off the whole GH nute line period as it wasnt liking me too much in my coco coir well more specifically the dry powders (MAXI FAM). I couldnt get over the salt build up literally saw it on the bottom of my Airpots and they werent getting completely dryed out either. Anyway I switched back to my H&G nutes since GH got bought out i heard and i cant set up a irrigation system yet as schools really kicking my ass its my final quarter and shit aint getting easier so im handwatering currently.


Anyway it didnt work for me because I couldnt keep the salt build up from showing up as I Couldnt water every 8 hours as im at scchool from 8am-6pm 4 days a week. so im watering twice a day in veg. hand watered with my H&G base + drip clean and epsom salt. 6/9 worked for me dont get my wrong just back on my H&G as i got a good amnt of it.

my point is everyone's situation is different. Maxi with handwatering = fail to me H&G with handwater=success. Maxi irrigation =success H&G irrigation =success too.


Just me though.... thanks for your guys solid inputs... guys like retro sidewing and everyone else whos always helped me you guys are life savers. I promise you guys that Ill get a veg shot up after my midterm tomorrow.
I say im going to flip 2 weeks after I switch em into my 2 gal. smarties and do a lil training.


And keep kissin guys im just kissing a different bad bitch



Im still on the whole KISS method too its not a nutrient schedule like vets have said its a way of growing and living. wont ever change that up

 

[Budracer]

Nice clean setup do dad

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

I have some PPM questions.


I tested my PPM meter this morning in distilled water. It read 004 PPM. Can I assume that my meter is reasonably accurate and does not need calibration?

Second question: If my meter is correct, should I raise my PPM's to the 800-850 range REGARDLESS of how much Maxibloom I need to add, even 1.5-2 teaspoons per gallon?

I'm running <675 PPM now, and if I'm not feeding the maximum amount of food my plants can eat at a time they can take it, I need to fix that.

only you can tell use how much your plants are eating this takes exp. and getting to know your plants comes with time my friend.

get some calibration packets if ya can. I got a hanna meter and got a bottle of it and like to make sure my meters all good every month. dont ever assume anything better safe than sorry if your serious about this stuff. 800-850ppm is where im at in flowering if not a lil higher in peak like 900-1000ppm.




youll get a feel for your plants some people push it to 7g/gal some people never go past 1.2-1.4ec around 4g a gal. it just depends as everyones environment is different and I honestly didnt get this at first.


Some people veg under t5's some under 1000w HPS' some in cooler climates some in hotter its all scenario based. But Its all about slowly raising your ppms not going from half strength to full all of a sudden. for example i woudnt give 7g/gal to a clone under a t8 but i maybe i could if the I were veggin under high intensity lights with an established root system.


slowly work your way up this is true for ec and ph drastic ph swings arent good gradual ph swings are


keep em growing !

 

[sidewing]

I have some PPM questions.

I tested my PPM meter this morning in distilled water. It read 004 PPM. Can I assume that my meter is reasonably accurate and does not need calibration?

Second question: If my meter is correct, should I raise my PPM's to the 800-850 range REGARDLESS of how much Maxibloom I need to add, even 1.5-2 teaspoons per gallon?

I'm running <675 PPM now, and if I'm not feeding the maximum amount of food my plants can eat at a time they can take it, I need to fix that.

yeah, seems good. does your meter have EC capability? is your PPM at a 0.5 conversion rate? or 0.7? it should say somewhere on the meter. EC is universal. PPM can have confusion if you dont specify what your conversion rate is.

one thing to note from WHAT IVE BEEN TOLD, is you cant check PH of RO water, because there's no elements to get a measurement from.. my probe always worked in my RO water, but a lot of people will complain that it jumps all over. but that's PH, no EC/PPM.

anyway, in my opinion.. the target PPM (1 scoop of maxibloom = ec of around 1.6 or so, or 800ppm at .5 conversion) is a maximum.. people online especially will tell you different because there's a lot of misinformation online and everyone things more is better.. but a plant that is getting just enough will always grow better than a plant that is being overfed.

you want to find the PPM level to feed your plant right before it starts to show deficiencies.. then stay barely above that mark. i ran maxibloom at 1.7 in flower and i honestly feel i could have ran it as low as 1.0-1.2 and been fine. (500-600ppm).

if i was you, i'd go the opposite route you're thinking of going.. keep dropping your PPM's your feeding until you see plant looks hungry (yellowing?).. then bump the ppm up from that point by like 50-100 or so and ride that level. not only will you save money on nutrients saved, but i guarantee you your plant will grow better and yield better.

please don't fall into the trap of giving them a PK boost in flower. just run straight maxibloom and nothing else. maxibloom already has too high of phosphorus (P), which is clogging the path for other nutrients.. but it'll get the job done. to put things in perspective, maxibloom has a N-P-K ratio of 5-15-14.. it's been proven that the best NPK ratio for cannabis is 3-1-2. if you're running high heat, CO2, or sea of green with a ton of short/squat plants, its ok to run a little higher potassium (K) with a NPK ratio of 3-1-3 or even 3-1-4.
with my raw salt formula i personally run a 3-1-3 ratio. in veg all the way through end of flower with great results. just for comparison the maxibloom NPK ratio is (reduced) 1-3-3.. way too low in nitrogen and way too high in phosphorus. thats why people see yellowing early in flower with maxibloom during the stretch.. and having low nitrogen levels will also make your plants stretch/lanky in flower. higher nitrogen will keep your plants shorter.

plants cant function without nitrogen, and the whole needing more P and K (phosphorus and potassium) in flower is blown way out of proportion.. we're talking about very very small differences in veg vs flower.. so small that its not necessary to change your food you're giving the plant.. in my honest opinion, you would see better growth in veg, more yield, and a higher quality end product in flower using maxigrow from veg to harvest vs using maxibloom from veg to harvest.

with maxigrow you can definitely run your EC at 1.0 aka 500ppm and be just fine.

 

[RetroGrow]

you would see better growth in veg, more yield, and a higher quality end product in flower using maxigrow from veg to harvest vs using maxibloom from veg to harvest.

with maxigrow you can definitely run your EC at 1.0 aka 500ppm and be just fine.

This is just not true, as one size does not fit all. Done it every which way, and if you're going with ONE nutrient throughout, it would be Maxibloom, like the thread starter and all the hundreds or thousands of others who have used this method will attest. Maxigrow has too much nitrogen for flower, and 500 PPMs for large plants is not nearly enough. 800 PPMs works splendid, and in late flower, for large plants, I push it up to 1000 or a bit more, no problems at all. It depends on the strain and the size of the plants. Plants that veg for two months need a lot more than plants that veg for two weeks. I want to minimize nitrogen in flower. I don't want to smoke nitrogen oxide, and I don't want green leaves at the end of the run. I want nice yellow/red leaves @ finish, like this:

 

[sidewing]

the issue i have with this too much nitrogen in flower is who determined this information because it seems that the blind is just leading the blind. no disrespect intended. the issue i have with forums is most people read something someone else says, and then it becomes their gospel. 500ppm's is plenty, unless your nutrients are misbalanced (as maxibloom is) so you have to overcompensate.

what makes you think you're going to smoke nitogen oxide? the buds don't store nitrogen oxide. nor do the leaves.. there is no difference between organic material and raw salts as far as the plant is concerned, it uses them both in the exact same way.. so why would an organic soil farmer growing outdoors not have any issues smoking nitrous oxide, but a indoor hydro grower does? you saying the plant inside has found a different way to convert its food to energy? what makes the leaves green is chlorophyll. when your leaves are no longer green, they are no longer working, and your plant isnt functional. if you had green leaves at the end of your run, you'd have a much better final product. and chlorophyll breaks down with a good 2-4 week cure.

to each their own. the thread is about KISS maxibloom. no point in arguing this fact. people will continue to do as they please. all flushing/creating a nitrogen deficient plant is doing is making you yield less because you're essentially killing the plant off 2 weeks or however early to speed up the cure process because theres no chlorophyll left in the dead leaves/plant.

people use maxibloom because it's esentially "Lucas Formula" which has been proven to work, however not the ideal ratios for cannabis growth. not because it's the better formula of the two. (maxigrow/maxibloom).

there's plenty of information in the thread about needing to run maxibloom at 1.7ec ,versus only needing 1.0ec of maxigrow. people just like to follow the herd though.

cannabis needs to be grown as a tropical foliage plant. its a weed, not a fruiting tomato plant. but like i said im not here to argue, everyone has their opinion. just like everyone can research to find the answers. best of luck.

The closet to a MJ plant is the "hemp" plants grown through out the U.S.. during WW II and just after that time. They found that the plants grow best when fertilized as if they were tobacco, corn silage or fodder when field grown and as foliage plants when green house grown. One does have to consider all the early research geared mainly around growing plant in the vegetative state until the plants started diverting its energy into reproduction. Then the testing went into importing ruderalis and hash strains so as to shorten and bush out the plants as the combines could not handle the ntaural sativa plants which were to tall. It wasn't until the 60's that much research was geared towards improving its possible medicinal qualities.

Consider Green peppers or chiles are 3:1:3, fodder is 3:1:3, spinach is 3:1:4, herbs are 2:1:1.5 while tomatoes are 4:1:5 and very high in calcium. The hydroponic grows in the 50's and 60's showed that MJ responded best to the simple 3:1:2 ratios used for green house foliage type plants. Even AN, low and be hold, who say they are at the forefront of the MJ nutrient field are now putting out Sensi formulas that are nearing the old traditional 3:1:2 formulas of old. Why do I use a near 3:1:2 ratio etc, because over the years I have found it to work the best and have mixed and sold it to dozens of large growers who also swear by it. I also know many commercial growers who mix their own fertilizers and in general they always seem to return to a formula near the standard old 3:1:2 ratio. Recently (the last year or a bit more) has brought about better nutrient delivery systems and therefore allowing increases in the other parameters meaning a k higher potash than from the 3:1:2 ratio.

Lucas is not really a good mix, it is just a fair and simple mix that works. It is a 0.42, 0.83, 1.0 ratio. Nothing like what is really recommended. I really do not know why it made it to the Fad level. I really find it hard to believe that GH even came up with the Flora Bloom formula which is Lucas with humus. It is simply a matter of a manufacturer providing what people want even when it is not a better product. If you actually look at the analysis of GH FloraBloom and Flora micro you would see that Lucas was back ass back wards when he came up with his formula. He advised two parts Bloom to one part Micro. If he would have gone with two parts micro and one part bloom he would have gotten a ratio of 3.3, 1.6, 2 but it would have a mess of calcium at 333 ppm. That high calcium would mean that the reservoir s would likely have to be changed out weekly rather than going for weeks or a full grow by just adding water and more nutrients.

IMHO neither GH or AN make a really good mj nutrient product for hydroponics, especially not for a good aero system with large tubes or chambers. I really doubt they will ever make a good formulation for good intermittent mists systems such as high pressure chamber or atomized chamber. They do not make formulations for commercial growers just hobbyists and it is doubtful enough hobbyists will ever spend the energy, time or money to move up to the better more expensive systems. The more efficient the system is the greater the difference ratios, and balanced pH's mean. Carbonate chemistry is much harder to deal with when TDS levels low right from the beginning as they are with efficient systems. Consider this: the actual recommended calcium to nitrogen ratio for MJ is 0.8-1. How many retailed nutrients out there do you see where the calcium to nitrogen ratio is that high unless the nitrogen level is very low. That is why the retail manufacturers are selling low nitrogen formulas. They sell low nitrogen so they can use lower levels of calcium. Low level calcium formulations make growers happy as they can go longer times between reservoir change outs and so they have to adjust the pH less and worry about magnesium deficiency less.

Basically it means poorer quality nutrients, potency and yields for a given growing time in order to allow for easier maintenance and less grower knowledge. It has become quiet common in the last few years for people to say the use plain tap water without problems. That says a lot about too low calcium levels supplied by manufacturers and that is usually an indication that their Nitrogen levels are really low also. Lately the trends has been high phosphorus and high potash, then throw in high calcium and magnesium at blooming. That is strange as balanced nutrients near or about 3:1:2, calcium of at least half to 1.5 to 3 and magnesium about half on the nitrogen or calcium through out still produce the best results. Calcium is really a very good way to control nutrient up take in efficient systems. As long as the ratio of calcium to magnesium is about 2:1 the calciums high EC means it has a lot of control over the amount of other nutrients that are available.

 

[DoDad]

yeah, seems good. does your meter have EC capability? is your PPM at a 0.5 conversion rate?

anyway, in my opinion.. the target PPM (1 scoop of maxibloom = ec of around 1.6 or so, or 800ppm at .5 conversion) is a maximum..

you want to find the PPM level to feed your plant right before it starts to show deficiencies.. then stay barely above that mark. i ran maxibloom at 1.7 in flower and i honestly feel i could have ran it as low as 1.0-1.2 and been fine. (500-600ppm).

please don't fall into the trap of giving them a PK boost in flower. just run straight maxibloom and nothing else.

MY meter is this one. .05. http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds3.html

It's brand new so I have to think it's been somewhat calibrated.

I'm not using anything else except maxibloom. I have a few other ferts that were just a waste of time and money.

I don't even adjust PH. I have the PH drops from GH to test and PH up/down but 1 tsp per gallon brings my tap right in line with what the drops say is close enough.

I'm about to start a new watering system with maxi. A top feed recirculating system that I have been working on the last couple of days.

I'm checking with the hempy guys about how often I can water, continuous flow, drip or intervals and once I find that out, I'll be running maxibloom out of an external reservoir. Can't get any easier than that.

I'll run it in the 650 ppm range and see how they do. If they look overfed, I'll pull back. Close is good enough.

 

[DoDad]

Nice clean setup do dad

Thanks Budracer.

 

[sidewing]

MY meter is this one. .05. http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds3.html

It's brand new so I have to think it's been somewhat calibrated.

I'm not using anything else except maxibloom. I have a few other ferts that were just a waste of time and money.

I don't even adjust PH. I have the PH drops from GH to test and PH up/down but 1 tsp per gallon brings my tap right in line with what the drops say is close enough.

I'm about to start a new watering system with maxi. A top feed recirculating system that I have been working on the last couple of days.

I'm checking with the hempy guys about how often I can water, continuous flow, drip or intervals and once I find that out, I'll be running maxibloom out of an external reservoir. Can't get any easier than that.

I'll run it in the 650 ppm range and see how they do. If they look overfed, I'll pull back. Close is good enough.

I found maxibloom to be very acidic.. at full strength my PH was way too low. like in the 4's somewhere, cant remember, but i had to use PH up, even when using silica (which raises PH).. maxigrow i found dialed right in at 6.1 with no ph adjusting. in RO water.

bottom line is if its working for you, no reason to change it. no reason to overcomplicate things, simple is best, keep it going and run for the finish line and get a sucessful harvest. you can work on dialing little things here and there later

 

[Grassachusetts7]

I'm currently using another nutrient reg. would it be OK to flush and start this method ASAP??
As I'm just finding out about this! This is major news for me. This will help my patient and I to operate more affordable!! Electricity already burdens us here in MA..

Thank you for this helpful tool! Should've joined the mag yrs ago!!!

 

[RetroGrow]

I don't think you need to flush necessarily. Just transition to the new regimen.

 

[RetroGrow]

the issue i have with this too much nitrogen in flower is who determined this information because it seems that the blind is just leading the blind. no disrespect intended. the issue i have with forums is most people read something someone else says, and then it becomes their gospel. 500ppm's is plenty, unless your nutrients are misbalanced (as maxibloom is) so you have to overcompensate.

what makes you think you're going to smoke nitogen oxide?

Dude, you are seriously out to lunch! You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm going on many years of experience and my own knowledge, not what someone else posted, especially not you. When nitrogen is burned, it becomes nitrogen oxide, which is a toxic carcinogen. But of course, you wouldn't know that, because as I said, you are totally clueless. You should not be dispensing advice at all, IMO. You should be listening. Telling people that they should be using more nitrogen in flower is just stupid, especially in this thread, which is about Maxibloom, which works all the way through precisely because it does not have too much nitrogen in flower. Get a clue, or start your own thread about growing with a high nitrogen nutrient line throughout flower, instead of mucking up this thread and dispensing bad advice. Pump your flowering plants with nitrogen, and smoke all that nitrogen oxide, but don't "advise" others to do the same. Your "500 PPMs" mantra is idiotic. 800 PPMs is already PROVEN to work, by many people, which is why so many people use this system and why this thread has been going for years. One more time, since you seem to be particularly obtuse, the PPMs are STRAIN dependent. Different strains require different amounts of nutrients, and different size plants also require different amounts. Maybe YOUR plants like what you are doing, and maybe you like high nitrogen in your flowering plants, but this does not apply to anyone else. You're in your own world of delusion. This method works, regardless of what you think.

 

[Grassachusetts7]

Thanks my man!

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Thanks my man!

I would just finish off your nutes that your on now and then switch over next round or start using maxibloom during flower transition.


just me though. dont fix it if it aint broken.

 

[Joint Lock]

thanks do you get good results from the rockwool in cloning do you jus snip the branch add the power cloner and put it in the rockwool inside a humidity dome i've never cloned before this is all new to me thats why i was gonna buy the turbo cloner 144 site cause i heard the domes were complicated and had a bad live/death ratio thanks for the help and thanks ioni for making the thread

Easiest way for me to clone using MB was to

Cut 90 degree angle
Hold cut underwater where u made the cut from mom
Cut above 1st cut to ensure no air pockets
Dip into cutting powder or gel
Place into rockwool 1.5 x 1.5 cube
Place into humidity dome

Take 3-5 drops of liquid kelp to a pinch of maxibloom mix together spray inside of dome and cuts once a day.

Keep cubes damp ,not wet .Try to keep puddles in dome to a minimum. Puddles will cause a dampening off or stem rot effect

 

[Joint Lock]

Easiest way for me to clone using MB was to

Cut 90 degree angle
Hold cut underwater where u made the cut from mom
Cut above 1st cut to ensure no air pockets
Dip into cutting powder or gel
Place into rockwool 1.5 x 1.5 cube
Place into humidity dome

Take 3-5 drops of liquid kelp to a pinch of maxibloom mix together spray inside of dome and cuts once a day.

Keep cubes damp ,not wet .Try to keep puddles in dome to a minimum. Puddles will cause a dampening off or stem rot effect

For got keep temps around 70-80F and use 20-40watts floros
roots appear in 7-10 days the main thing is keeping puddles to a minimum on bottom of trey

 

[DoDad]

I finished my top feed system that recirculates for my new tub. My plan is to put the pump on timer to water for 30 minutes, 5 times a day with only maxibloom.

My first test will be around 650-700 PPM. We'll know soon if that's too much.

I have been hand watering these hempy buckets several times a day and my plants did very well. The more I watered, the more they seem to like it. I don't see why I couldn't automate that process.

On a side note. My plants are a mixture of bag seed, Afghan and Autos from Herbie Seeds. It doesn't make any difference, Maxibloom is working great on all my varieties.

 

[Grassachusetts7]

I would just finish off your nutes that your on now and then switch over next round or start using maxibloom during flower transition.


just me though. dont fix it if it aint broken.

I couldn't help myself I had to dive in! I've had it with the mixing and the money. I gave them a feeding yesterday 1tsp with tap. So far so good!

It's so nice to simplify what should be a simple process in the first place! Thanks to the Op and you guys for this amazing thread which is approaching it's 6th yr in play!!!!!WHAT!!!! Shits crazy

 

[RetroGrow]

The more I watered, the more they seem to like it.

More watering=more oxygen in the root zone=explosive growth. I like to completely replace the rez daily with one drench to run off. I use 2 gallon buckets, so mature plants suck them dry overnight.