currently i was leaning toward cutting down from 1.4 ec (my full strength flower mix) to .8 ec 2 weeks before harvest. and then .4 ec the final week. letting it slowly fade out and gradually use up any build up at the same time.
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- Thread starter Ioni Botani
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currently i was leaning toward cutting down from 1.4 ec (my full strength flower mix) to .8 ec 2 weeks before harvest. and then .4 ec the final week. letting it slowly fade out and gradually use up any build up at the same time.
That sounds better, but I would flush the last week, with water only. Gives a cleaner smoke. You want to get all the nitrogen out, IMO.
I know there are people who don't flush at all. I can always tell if herb is not flushed.
I personally think so. But if you aren't seeing any buildup of N with the Maxigrow in flower, or any other undesirable characteristics of an excess of nitrogen in later flowering, then you're good I'd guess. I'd rather keep a lower level of luxury nitrogen and give a little boost if need be. Ammoniacal nitrogen is assimilated quite quickly and can fix any problems fast.
Ever have a plant that you could flush for 3+ weeks and it's still green? Clearly suffering in quality because all the potassium has long been used up? That's what I think of when I think Maxigrow all the way through. Again, if you're keeping your levels right and aren't overfeeding, this may never be an issue for you. Every situation could be different.
I just wanted to point out a few of the multiple downsides to using too much nitrate nitrogen if you cared to explore that more.
Trying the kiss method for the first time after wasting time and $ with bottled brand name nutes and getting poor yields in highly amended super soil. Only question is i'm using royal gold basement mix ingredients are: coco fiber, Humboldt forest humus, compost, perlite, lava rock, earthworm castings, fish bone meal, feathermeal, bat guano, seabird guano, kelp meal, oyster shell, azomite, coco chips. They are currently about 3-4ft in five gallon grow bags, roots are starting to show planning on transferring them into 10 gallon smart pots giving them about five days to transition into they're new homes and then flip to flower. With the large amount of stuff already in the soil/media should I give them nutes right off the bat? I guess my question just is all this extra stuff besides the coco coir in the soil/media going to mess with the total nute levels in relation to the amount of nutes i'm giving them from watering? Mildly afraid if I giv the them full strength nutes along with the stuff that is already in the soil they will get burnt? Was planning on doing nutes one day, plain water the next and then possibly a day to dry out. Thought's comments anything at all is appreciated thanks (hell rip into me and tell me everything you think might be wrong).
well whatever anybody tells you is going to be their opinion, unless they've ran that specific mix. So here's my opinion.
That IS a very hot mix it (or so it sounds from all the ingredients). sounds like you dont need to add anything to it for at least a few weeks to a month.
if you're giving your plant feed thru natural methods or thru synthetic chemicals it doesnt matter. the plant is using it the same. your soil mix is complete already, you MAY not even need to add anything at all. giving the plant MORE in the way of maxibloom is not going to benefit the plant any. in fact it might hurt the plant by lockout, burn, salt buildup or anything else.
id give your plant nothing in that soil mix until you start seeing signs that it needs something. then i'd give it either a half and half of maxigrow/maxibloom, or just maxigrow to keep it green.
bone meal is a very slow release of phosphorus, i doubt you'll need anymore. you just want to keep the foliage green at this point. healthy leaves make healthy plants and healthy buds and healthy yields.
also as far as my experience with soil which i consider to be moderate to high, the directions on a package are for weekly watering. like if it says add 10ml per gallon, thats how much you'd add per week. not every feeding. so with 1tsp per gallon of maxibloom for example, thats how much you give per week. split it up or give it all at once its up to you. probably better to split it up and give weaker doses regularly than a super strong dose all at once.
if you think about it like this in a hydro setting. you are changing the res once a week ideally. meaning you mix the res PER the instructions and leave it there for a week. drain and repeat. so if in soil you are watering every time at full strength, you are giving 300% of the recommended dose. gunna burn your plants. ESPECIALLY if you are already running a soil that is fully amended.
edit:
in my opinion if you want to continue running amended super soil stuff, you can boost the yields with these methods:
- give your plant compost tea regularly. all the microbes will help the plant break down and uptake more efficently, increasing yields.
- use root fungus like mycorrhizal. root health is everything. what makes a plant yield is healthy roots and healthy foliage. keep both healthy and you're yields will max out.
- use unchlorinated water. yes chlorinated water works fine but i saw a marked improvement using unchlorinated in organic soil grows. especially when using compost teas.
- since you are getting your plants big before putting into flower, research using a SCROG (screen of green). spreading your canopy out evenly and removing lower foliage growth PRIOR to going into flower will give you great yields.
more is not better. simplify your methods and let the plant do its thing. remember, healthy leaves is all you want to achieve.. even if that means giving your plant a veg nutrient during flower. plants cannot photosynthesize properly with unhealthy leaves and your yield will suffer.
im going into my 2nd week of flower on my round where im using only maxigrow all through flower. so far everything is doing phenomenal. the amount of budsites and how developed they are already just a week from transition is better than anything ive ever seen on any previous runs spanning over 5 years. (so anyone saying high N delays flowering this has shown not to be true). I also have not seen any excessive stretch, i'd say somewhere between 150-200% in the first week. i expect it to max out at 200% stretch at the most (double in size from the size of the flip to clarify).
Well see what happens. They are getting 2 weeks of water only at the end. My outdoor is always green at harvest and taste fine. I've been reading a lot about synthetic salts vs natural and inside the plant it doesn't make a difference what the source is, it's converted and used the same. So the theory of not needing a flush in organic soil vs synthetic hydro.. according to the science of things it shouldn't make a difference as far as the plant is concerned. Also I don't think the plant is stuffed full of any additional nitrogen vs a traditional bloom fert. I think the only way you can have crazy residuals that affect flavor in dwc is running ec levels way higher than needed. I'm running 1.4 to 1.7 ec which on the .5 conversion scale is 700 to 850ppm. Some people run at ec levels ranging from 2.0 all the way to 4.0. Not necessary.
I've not ever had anyone able to tell how long i did or didn't flush in soil organic or hydro synthetic. i think its bs. you can fad them and lose some chlorophyll or not but whether thats achieved by loewering ec or flushing or for how long i think makes no difference. id love to do a side by side blind test. my strongest theca test were from my healthiest looking finished plants. i.e. green leaves. i am just lowering ec to fade a little at finish personally. i want them healthy as they round out the terp profile not faded to yellow. 2 weeks of water in coco is ridiculous and i think it will detract from yield flavor and potency.
I can definitely tell if herb is not flushed, and if it's full of nitrogen. Some wine connoisseurs can tell small differences between wines. I can't, because my palate is not attuned to wine, as I don't drink it. Your palate is lacking if you can't tell the difference between flushed and unflushed herb. Finishing "green" is for cash croppers who don't really care about "subtle" differences in quality. I always finish with leaves yellowing, which means the nitrogen in the leaves/buds is being used up, as it should be for better taste, not to mention that smoking nitrogen is not a good idea. That's one reason why properly grown indoor herb is superior to outdoor, which is reflected in the price, with a few rare exceptions, namely equatorial strains. The difference is pretty obvious to experienced tokers.
Caravaggio
Member
id be curious to do a pepsi challenge.
I have been cutting out the Maxibloom after week 5 and using koolbloom powder and flora bloom liquid for 5 days then flora bloom Liquid and koolbloom liquid both at 10ml/gal for 5 days then flush for at least 2 weeks. IMO you need at least 2 weeks flush using maxi bloom. Gradually taking out the N and keeping your ppm high enough for flower by using the koolbloom powder is 2-45-28 and the liquid is 0-10-10. Idk why they recommend koolbloom powder after the liquid you figure you want less N at the end instead of adding N at the end, I've been doing it this way the past few crops with no I'll effects and tastier medicine. Hope this helps anyone and everyone
Right. You want to decrease nitrogen in flower, and totally eliminate it in late flower. Let the plant use up the nitrogen it has stored in the leaves/buds. Makes for much tastier buds, despite the unsubstantiated opinions of cash croppers. Besides personal experience, I could bludgeon them with links/science.
That's the whole point of using Maxibloom as a one part, because Maxigrow has too much nitrogen for flower. That's why they have two products, and recommend switching to Bloom in flower. Maxibloom all the way through works well, as people tend to overfeed nitrogen from the start. Never had nitrogen deficiency using Maxibloom all the way, because it has all the nitrogen you need. Aside from that, burning nitrogen creates nitrogen oxide, which is toxic. Additionally, magnesium gives a bad/harsh taste, so I would not be using cal/mag in flower, nor epsom salts. Flushing for two weeks is just right. It gets the green out of the fans, and lets the plant use up it's nitrogen/magnesium content, which is what you want for best tasting, highest quality buds.
Here's a link for those who are over dosing their plants on nitrogen. They are cash croppers, and tend to over feed in order to increase yield. Taste/quality are secondary to them:
"Nitrogen - Plants need lots of N during vegging, but it is easy to overdo it. Added too much? Flush the soil with plain water. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that is the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it. Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor."
http://medicalmarijuana.com/experts/expert/title.cfm?artID=719
I could post lots more, but it is not necessary. Those who refute the obvious aren't ever going to learn anyway.
im all about being shown I'm wrong with a link to an intelligent article study etc. but eh......
well i do feel bludgeoned alright. that was the most dumbed down, and at times totally incorrect, outdated articles I've read in a while. thanks. i guess we should all go organic because its exactly 79% more potent with thc. you learn something new everyday thanks for sharing.
wow that 50%thc organic gg4 is going to be so nice.
what a fascinating article. hit me with something that'll change my mind. I'm no expert i was just telling my experience. i do fade my plants to some degree by the way. at times it has happened that didn't go as planned. it was as dank at minimum. there were some pretty snooty cats raving about it, i am barely a smoker. i wouldn't be a good gauge. no one I've asked notices.
so much so that I've been questioning it and am seeing good results not doing it for very long at all. some of m best runs have been with almost no flush but there is something to be said for running lower e.c.s. than 7 grams per gallon. i never breech 1.3 and usually stay at 1.2. my run off is in range and when i drop the ecs its at the right soil salinity to just drop at the same time i do. no lag using up old nutrients in the soil. if your plants are eating what you're feeding it should only be a matter of a day or two to see the results of dropping e.c.
so guess maybe if people feed the way you do its good to flush i don't know,.havent fed that strong before. it looks bad when I've tried. little burnt tips etc.
that article was silly.
but that doesn't mean I'm right. dumb article doesn't mean your wrong but id love to see something a little more serious.
bludgeon me.
well i do feel bludgeoned alright. that was the most dumbed down, and at times totally incorrect, outdated articles I've read in a while. thanks. i guess we should all go organic because its exactly 79% more potent with thc. you learn something new everyday thanks for sharing.
wow that 50%thc organic gg4 is going to be so nice.
what a fascinating article. hit me with something that'll change my mind. I'm no expert i was just telling my experience. i do fade my plants to some degree by the way. at times it has happened that didn't go as planned. it was as dank at minimum. there were some pretty snooty cats raving about it, i am barely a smoker. i wouldn't be a good gauge. no one I've asked notices.
so much so that I've been questioning it and am seeing good results not doing it for very long at all. some of m best runs have been with almost no flush but there is something to be said for running lower e.c.s. than 7 grams per gallon. i never breech 1.3 and usually stay at 1.2. my run off is in range and when i drop the ecs its at the right soil salinity to just drop at the same time i do. no lag using up old nutrients in the soil. if your plants are eating what you're feeding it should only be a matter of a day or two to see the results of dropping e.c.
so guess maybe if people feed the way you do its good to flush i don't know,.havent fed that strong before. it looks bad when I've tried. little burnt tips etc.
that article was silly.
but that doesn't mean I'm right. dumb article doesn't mean your wrong but id love to see something a little more serious.
bludgeon me.
Sounds like you've already been bludgeoned, and not in a good way. Probably from all that nitrogen oxide you've been smoking.
My post was for the benefit for those who read this thread and think it's a good idea to feed "Grow" in flower, which it obviously isn't. That's why they have separate formulas for grow & bloom. Maxibloom has plenty of nitrogen for vegatative state. That's why it makes a good one part. Feeding grow in flower is just not very intelligent. Not flushing is typical of cash croppers who are less interested in the health of the users than they are in profit. That's why many of them spray pesticides in flower. I take the opposite stance. Elimination of nitrogen after first week or two of flower is my goal for the healthiest and tastiest bud. Not to mention that there is an inverse relationship between nitrogen and THC. I wouldn't even smoke herb that hasn't been flushed. It's crap.
My post was for the benefit for those who read this thread and think it's a good idea to feed "Grow" in flower, which it obviously isn't. That's why they have separate formulas for grow & bloom. Maxibloom has plenty of nitrogen for vegatative state. That's why it makes a good one part. Feeding grow in flower is just not very intelligent. Not flushing is typical of cash croppers who are less interested in the health of the users than they are in profit. That's why many of them spray pesticides in flower. I take the opposite stance. Elimination of nitrogen after first week or two of flower is my goal for the healthiest and tastiest bud. Not to mention that there is an inverse relationship between nitrogen and THC. I wouldn't even smoke herb that hasn't been flushed. It's crap.
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