The Haze discussion thread

[Ghost Protocol]

so either sam is lying ,
or rob is using some poetic license ,
personally i think its the latter ,

sam has always stuck to the story about how he gave them thai and south indian ,
one liked it but seeds ran out quick , the other didnt ,
so the original seeds were colombian ,
maybe someone can message him and simply ask ??

so who wants to be the annoying member to do so?? hahahahha ,

i know id believe something sam wrote here over something rob included in high times ...

Naw Rob don't make mistakes lol his mj botany work stood the test of time better for it as does most of his work. If it has any potential to come back on him he simply will not publish. That been his mo from the git. Further they are long friends and that info came from Sam be sure about it.

For some reason Sam appears to be backpeddling on the last going on 40 years description only he knows why i imagine he has his reasons though. For sure the man has earned a pass on it.

Also for sure from tdf to posi they did not pull their o haze write ups outa thin air lol it all came from Sams mouth and pen as sure as it all came from his hoop. .

it don't bother so much as again he must have his reasons - what makes my eye twitch is so many buying it after running 40 years on record lol.

in regards to original haze....

"I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood" (Sam S)

 

[Hammerhead]

Today's pic update on THH and 1990 OH. The last pic is OH, she is the shortest of the bunch. She is not stretching like the others are.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Naw Rob don't make mistakes lol his mj botany work stood the test of time better for it as does most of his work. If it has any potential to come back on him he simply will not publish. That been his mo from the git. Further they are long friends and that info came from Sam be sure about it.

For some reason Sam appears to be backpeddling on the last going on 40 years description only he knows why i imagine he has his reasons though. For sure the man has earned a pass on it.

Also for sure from tdf to posi they did not pull their o haze write ups outa thin air lol it all came from Sams mouth and pen as sure as it all came from his hoop. .

it don't bother so much as again he must have his reasons - what makes my eye twitch is so many buying it after running 40 years on record lol.

in regards to original haze....

"I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood" (Sam S)

well now as our op and current changer of history has announced ,
sam never even saw original haze ,

so all these years we have thought something that has now been blown out of the water by some sleuth,
who can read into things that the rest of us mere mortals cant even see ,
startling new "facts" are emerging as this guy types,
he is literally changing history ,

some wonder if he is just a little illiterate and his English comprehension is just pathetically poor ,
others cheer as these new "facts" come to light ...

hahahahaha fucking crazy isnt it , i just shake my head in wonder some days ....

anyhow back on the topic tom,
yea i hear you , but ive seen some authors do things just like rob has before ,
and later they read it again and think , oh shit , ahh never mind , no one will know .l.. lol ..
little do those know how fussy we are with the finer details especially when it comes to cannabis lineage ..

ill hold judgement until , or if , when , we hear from sam ,
there may be a simple explanation ,
be good if it gets cleared up because the guy isnt getting any younger ,
and i for one would hate to see the history of haze come from a article in high times vs the guy who was actually there ...
or from hempys twisted misinterpretations and half digested/misunderstood information ...

 

[Humple W.]

Few haze of last year....

Beautiful. What size pots?

 

[Ghost Protocol]

How would he know ?.

That is correct hempy. When a geneticists sees a / vs x he is looking at a sign of admitted lack of knowlege of lineage i believe Sam is speculating based on what was flowing through santa cruz at the time but it seems this mexican/colombian was his first haze seed. The excitement in his voice talking about it raises both eyebrows lol.

 

[CannaRed]

Naw Rob don't make mistakes lol his mj botany work stood the test of time better for it as does most of his work. If it has any potential to come back on him he simply will not publish. That been his mo from the git. Further they are long friends and that info came from Sam be sure about it.

For some reason Sam appears to be backpeddling on the last going on 40 years description only he knows why i imagine he has his reasons though. For sure the man has earned a pass on it.

Also for sure from tdf to posi they did not pull their o haze write ups outa thin air lol it all came from Sams mouth and pen as sure as it all came from his hoop. .

it don't bother so much as again he must have his reasons - what makes my eye twitch is so many buying it after running 40 years on record lol.

in regards to original haze....

"I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood" (Sam S)

Kinda like how Rob said something he wished he hadn't on the Adam Dunn Show, and weeks later the episode completely disappeared.
Adam said that Rob made him remove the entire 2 part episode from YouTube and his website. This was when the Kid was in charge of audio and video, and he was a failure, so I can see him deleting the show I stead of knowing how to edit it.
if anyone has a download of that episode I'd live to listen to it again, this time with perked ears.
If I recall it was something related to Phylos, but I just can't remember. I wish I had never deleted it.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

That is correct hempy. When a geneticists sees a / vs x he is looking at a sign of admitted lack of knowlege of lineage i believe Sam is speculating based on what was flowing through santa cruz at the time but it seems this mexican/colombian was his first haze seed. The excitement in his voice talking about it raises both eyebrows lol.

Anyway lumbos can be trippy but they are a dirty muddy high compared to thais no surprize he values the latter over the former in spite of recent backpeddle.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

Kinda like how Rob said something he wished he hadn't on the Adam Dunn Show, and weeks later the episode completely disappeared.
Adam said that Rob made him remove the entire 2 part episode from YouTube and his website. This was when the Kid was in charge of audio and video, and he was a failure, so I can see him deleting the show I stead of knowing how to edit it.
if anyone has a download of that episode I'd live to listen to it again, this time with perked ears.
If I recall it was something related to Phylos, but I just can't remember. I wish I had never deleted it.

Oh he is a Nazi about it for sure lol. I never seen a more careful author. He prolly has Sam barking in his ear just like Sam played down the cannabis culture article saying rob is wrong as it interferes with current plans lol. For somebody who can actually read between the lines it is all quite humorous.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

well now as our op and current changer of history has announced ,
sam never even saw original haze ,

so all these years we have thought something that has now been blown out of the water by some sleuth,
who can read into things that the rest of us mere mortals cant even see ,
startling new "facts" are emerging as this guy types,
he is literally changing history ,

some wonder if he is just a little illiterate and his English comprehension is just pathetically poor ,
others cheer as these new "facts" come to light ...

hahahahaha fucking crazy isnt it , i just shake my head in wonder some days ....

anyhow back on the topic tom,
yea i hear you , but ive seen some authors do things just like rob has before ,
and later they read it again and think , oh shit , ahh never mind , no one will know .l.. lol ..
little do those know how fussy we are with the finer details especially when it comes to cannabis lineage ..

ill hold judgement until , or if , when , we hear from sam ,
there may be a simple explanation ,
be good if it gets cleared up because the guy isnt getting any younger ,
and i for one would hate to see the history of haze come from a article in high times vs the guy who was actually there ...
or from hempys twisted misinterpretations and half digested/misunderstood information ...

Lol. Hempy accidentally gets shit correct

Rob was there though right there with Sam in his hoop writing history in '78. I reckon both the indian and thai in haze have both been beautifully drawn in mj botany complete with accurate descriptions.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

oi hempy came a long way mate 30 years ago he thought nevil was the motts lol.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

A lot of relevent stuff came out in bigherbs thread but he refuses to see it he like hempy 30 years ago

 

[Ghost Protocol]

It dont look like Sam gunna clear it up lol. He will change the subject to posters and hybreds lol. I asked him as straight as i could a long time ago and got crickets.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

"I picked up 4-5 15 pks of "original haze" from positronics in '95, as well as sk1, bred for earliness "hand pollinated by the skunkman". At any rate i'd like to get down to it sam. Most of the dutch haze used in hybrids seem to be from the earlier mexican colombian stock? A bit more sawn teak leather of a flavor than the thai dominate citrus haze i seem to have acquired? Is this so?....." (c '08)

Crickets...

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

Naw Rob don't make mistakes lol his mj botany work stood the test of time better for it as does most of his work. If it has any potential to come back on him he simply will not publish. That been his mo from the git. Further they are long friends and that info came from Sam be sure about it.

For some reason Sam appears to be backpeddling on the last going on 40 years description only he knows why i imagine he has his reasons though. For sure the man has earned a pass on it.

Also for sure from tdf to posi they did not pull their o haze write ups outa thin air lol it all came from Sams mouth and pen as sure as it all came from his hoop. .

it don't bother so much as again he must have his reasons - what makes my eye twitch is so many buying it after running 40 years on record lol.

in regards to original haze....

"I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood" (Sam S)

Howdy Ghost, your entire position is based on your notion that Rob don't make mistakes?

So if Rob is going off what Sam originally told him, and you are saying Sam is lying, I am confused at how you take Rob for gospel.

With so much information, disinformation, and misinterpretations it is hard to believe any of it sometimes. Language is a funny thing. Just because someone refers to something as "the Thai like one", does not always mean there are Thai genetics in it. I do not think Sam is being intentionally misleading. Could there have been some mixups with seeds and labels once changed hands, of course. After I plant things and label there is always a moment where I wonder, did I fuck anything up?! Mistakes happen, but all things considered it does not seem like same is being misleading. He has said it is a three way Colombian on more than one occasion and said it was also hybridized with Thai and other genetics at varying points in history. That said, in the catalogs it was always distinct in labeling them as such.

I do find it intriguing that Sam subitted dozens of samples to Phylos, many of them quite unique and rare. A bunch of pure Colombian lines, but not one listed as Original Haze.

Nevil's Haze submission from Ace seeds shows no close relatives which struck me odd, while the Oldtimers Purple #23 and Green #19 highlight something fascanating. Both list each other under close relatives, and both list multiple Colombian Gold submissions as close relatives but the Purple #23 also shows a close relative with a Thai submission where the Green #19 does not! Two of the Colombian Gold submissions that they both share as relatives show Thai Stick as their relative in the galaxy as well! The other handful of Colombians do not. The two Colombians showing this shared Thai ancestry were submitted by Mel Frank and Ma Dang. The Thai Stick in the galaxy with the shared Colombian and Oldtimers haze relatives was subimtted by Ma Dang as well.


Hear me out you guys, could the common denominator be wacky weed, Colombian Black? Thai genetics grown in Colombia?

As to your quote from Sam, and not trying to speak for the man himself, but that could also be read as he likes the lime green hazes, maybe with a bit of (hybridized) Thai blood in them. He has continually stated that outcrossing Original Haze is where it truly shines, and crossing it with tropical sativas is where the magic really happens. It makes sense that he would have a preference for something like the lime green types, and sometimes those lime green types hybridized with some thai blood mixed in speaking of two totally different plants or lines.

What if TFD and Wernard got the hybridized packs or a mixed bag of seeds and the descriptions were loosely accurate?

What if you are right?

We will not know until we know, and until them we have the seeds and genetics that we have. That said, based on the reports coming out, there seems to be some pretty legit stuff coming out of Todds recent release by way of Sam. I look forward to seeing some of the samples of it shared with Phylos to see what it's closest relatives are. I am guessing Colombian and maybe a little Thai blood lol. Much love

 

[Hammerhead]

I rarely see Sams respond to any post.. The only time he does is in his thread and uses edit posts when he is responding to someones post. It's an odd way to respond for sure.

 

[Ghost Protocol]

Howdy Ghost, your entire position is based on your notion that Rob don't make mistakes?

So if Rob is going off what Sam originally told him, and you are saying Sam is lying, I am confused at how you take Rob for gospel.

With so much information, disinformation, and misinterpretations it is hard to believe any of it sometimes. Language is a funny thing. Just because someone refers to something as "the Thai like one", does not always mean there are Thai genetics in it. I do not think Sam is being intentionally misleading. Could there have been some mixups with seeds and labels once changed hands, of course. After I plant things and label there is always a moment where I wonder, did I fuck anything up?! Mistakes happen, but all things considered it does not seem like same is being misleading. He has said it is a three way Colombian on more than one occasion and said it was also hybridized with Thai and other genetics at varying points in history. That said, in the catalogs it was always distinct in labeling them as such.

I do find it intriguing that Sam subitted dozens of samples to Phylos, many of them quite unique and rare. A bunch of pure Colombian lines, but not one listed as Original Haze.

Nevil's Haze submission from Ace seeds shows no close relatives which struck me odd, while the Oldtimers Purple #23 and Green #19 highlight something fascanating. Both list each other under close relatives, and both list multiple Colombian Gold submissions as close relatives but the Purple #23 also shows a close relative with a Thai submission where the Green #19 does not! Two of the Colombian Gold submissions that they both share as relatives show Thai Stick as their relative in the galaxy as well! The other handful of Colombians do not. The two Colombians showing this shared Thai ancestry were submitted by Mel Frank and Ma Dang. The Thai Stick in the galaxy with the shared Colombian and Oldtimers haze relatives was subimtted by Ma Dang as well.


Hear me out you guys, could the common denominator be wacky weed, Colombian Black? Thai genetics grown in Colombia?

As to your quote from Sam, and not trying to speak for the man himself, but that could also be read as he likes the lime green hazes, maybe with a bit of (hybridized) Thai blood in them. He has continually stated that outcrossing Original Haze is where it truly shines, and crossing it with tropical sativas is where the magic really happens. It makes sense that he would have a preference for something like the lime green types, and sometimes those lime green types hybridized with some thai blood mixed in speaking of two totally different plants or lines.

What if TFD and Wernard got the hybridized packs or a mixed bag of seeds and the descriptions were loosely accurate?

What if you are right?

We will not know until we know, and until them we have the seeds and genetics that we have. That said, based on the reports coming out, there seems to be some pretty legit stuff coming out of Todds recent release by way of Sam. I look forward to seeing some of the samples of it shared with Phylos to see what it's closest relatives are. I am guessing Colombian and maybe a little Thai blood lol. Much love[/QUO

Naw man i been growing and breeding and reading sams words re haze for decades what i am saying is based on what sam has said and my own experience.

When he talking thai blood he means o haze same like when he corrected somebody tryning to call lumbo dom haze lumbo a page or 2 later he talking lumbo dom haze.

I'd not take rob for gospel sam has been saying these same things for 40 years!

Sam seems to be removing his best stock from anything labled as haze - not a good time to get haze from him lol suckers. I can explain it to you but i cant understand it for you.

Nodoby but sam could have even writen the full page description at posi seeds promise it was too damn detailed.

Same as robs and tfd and everybody elses account yeah naw man too damn detailed.

 

[star crash]

I rarely see Sams respond to any post.. The only time he does is in his thread and uses edit posts when he is responding to someones post. It's an odd way to respond for sure.

You did exactly the same thing to me three days ago what the fuck is with you?

 

[Ghost Protocol]

Ps. Posi had some bs orange 1 x haze and skunk x haze there was zero thai listed hybs in holland in '94-'95 or i would have for fuck sure grabbed them being a good decade past any decent thai in the world.

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

What did the packs you got look like, did they come labeled as Original Haze with the lineage being listed as a Colombian/Mexican/Thai/Indian mashup?

 

[Ghost Protocol]

What did the packs you got look like, did they come labeled as Original Haze with the lineage being listed as a Colombian/Mexican/Thai/Indian mashup?

They did not have a pack for this they had a generic posi seed pack they were likey bound by honor to not sell it to the public as nevil was but had more honor. I was persistant though i had zero interest in their haze hybrids i wanted that pure teak leather i was smoking around town.from under the counter came a loose grip of seed that needed to be counted out and packs made while i read a beautiful full page description of the line - original haze.