The Haze discussion thread

[TheDarkStorm]

1. Nevile didnt make Haze famous he made Haze hybrids famous.

2. Why atack on me if you grow Pure haze and haze hybrd you will know that in one hand they are similar in other hand very different.

Any Nevile haze which cirulates areound and 5hazes,bandaid,cuban black....have strucutre of NLxhaze, o haze have yild 3x-5x less than those famous cuts all of them produce buds like 2L coke bottle If you grow and i have grow many O hazes they have buds like calyx it is unselable for its look but high is something special.
So thats why many grow haze hybrids 20-30% indica in same flower time you have much more of yild with added stony high.

And high without any heavy feeling at all no Indica(BLD) influence.

Also why Amnesia cant be in this category and Nevile Haze can be....

NLxhaze is haze hybrid and it is O. Haze just as is it NL.

We can also make indica category and put there phenos of Jack,SSH,Nevile which are Indica dominat aren't we ???

All in all you say that Haze is bad but you only consider great plant in Haze hybrid which are at least 70% haze...

So in conclusion you dont like pure haze you like haze hybrid with 20-30% of indica/skunk efect.

And tds original haze is strain with many phenotipes if you grow ever any cannabis you will know there are many differences in any strain.

What is problem with pure NLD O haze contest there are at least 5-6 phenos...

From lemony,rootbear,incense.... why we shouldnt chose between best phenos and say which to us represent O haze the best ?????

TDS cannabis isnt cuncuber and tomato so strain is all the same.

But one time in your life when you stop live in interent world and start growing you will learn lots good things about these plants.

You are the one who talk 2500+ posts about old cuts and
it turned out that you actually have no idea what a5 is and what c5 is,only from forums and someone other descritpions.

No haze but boys you are sometimes funny.

I actually question myself did OJD,Hempy and TDS ever grown O.Haze ???

Proving something without expireince is theory and almost every theory dosent fit reality.

:*

Hold on..there are some original hazes going around that have some thick buds.....this isnt about old cuts....not evrything is about those....there are other old cuts about that are held in the uk.....anyway lets just get this competition on the road....if something is that good it shouldn't matter what it goes up against.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

ask hempy and darkie to show pictures of nevils haze grown by he and kanga in australia ,
they look very much like hybrids , not like pure sativas ,
quite good size colas , fairly fat , definitely not sparse airy sativa flowers by any means ,
and they are from seed nevil made also ,
i wonder if they just selected for that type and threw the others ,
of if they had selected for more indica they would have found some ??

i know from the seed i got from shanti back in 2011 that one of the nevils ripened when all the others continued to grow and veg ,
so there is the occasional earlier type to be found ...

according to hempy shantis seeds are the same as nevils , made by using the same parents ...

Actually shanti is growing the last seeds nevil ever made looking for parents..same batch nevil used in Australia....out of hundreds of seeds from both the 97 nevils haze and what shanti cals the old ssh..wich was again the last batch nevil himself made shanti got 30 plants...in total that is...alot riddled with a virus yet he is still growing them.....if shanti ever made ssh or nevils haze the exact same way nevil did why is he not looking through his own seeds from any point in time....why has he gone through all the headache, time, cost, still trying to grow virus riddled plants from seeds that hardly pop now.....work it out yourselves...

the 1997 nevils haze#21 grown in Australia....looks all sativa to me..

 

[Donald Mallard]

Actually shanti is growing the last seeds nevil ever made looking for parents..same batch nevil used in Australia....out of hundreds of seeds from both the 97 nevils haze and what shanti cals the old ssh..wich was again the last batch nevil himself made shanti got 30 plants...in total that is...alot riddled with a virus yet he is still growing them.....if shanti ever made ssh or nevils haze the exact same way nevil did why is he not looking through his own seeds from any point in time....why has he gone through all the headache, time, cost, still trying to grow virus riddled plants from seeds that hardly pop now.....work it out yourselves...

the 1997 nevils haze#21 grown in Australia....looks all sativa to me..

yea seems a bit weird to me too ..

looks like early flower on that girl darkie , its not the pic i was thinking of ,
maybe she fattens up a little and there is a later photo , or the other photo i was thinking of is another plant ,
no biggie ...

 

[TheDarkStorm]

A key point about the Haze genetics Nevil worked with are the seed and going by the labeled bags Nevil talked about they were labeled late 60s now as Nevil bought the seed when Sam first arrived in Holland they were not made in Holland and out of 1000s of seed Nevil got from Sam Nevil only managed to germinate 7 or 8 that tells me the seed were very old.

That would mean the Haze Nevil worked with was some of if not the oldest and closest to the original Haze F1s if not the Haze F1 seed them self's.

People dont like this fact and all the others worked with seed made by Sam in Holland.

Here are 2 true 50% Haze that were vegged for 4 weeks and then placed into flower 12/12 they were ruffly 2 ft when put into flower now these plants start to show sex at week 4 to 5 normally now look at the size and there not showing sex yet.

Even a 50% hybrid can act like a pure sativa time for a little truth you cant tell me they dont look like a pure sativa.

Hempy you and I were both there....when I was speaking about haze#1, haze#2, haze#3, haze#4, burning bush, new year haze and brians haze and the reply was " well nevil wouldn't have got those seeds if it wasn't for me". So we both know the truth....the other half we already know that wernt sold didnt pop. Resorting to using the very very small amount of 1976 seed to preserve the line. Nevil preserved what he could from what he got his own way...These are facts whether people can accept it or not is on them.

 

[Hammerhead]

P53...She ain't pretty to look at but damn she has a fat ass going on.. Most of her leaf got toasted but she doesn't seem like she cares. Very sticky with stinky diesel skunk funk. All of the plants ive grown took 90-95 days to finish. This plant is at 55 days. The other pheno seems to be the same type. I cut her tops down when I messed up on the light timing. All in all not to bad. The finished flowers should be super nice.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Nevils story never changed? Who wrote the seedbank catalog descriptions? When Haze hybrids were put in the catalog the description clearly says the haze Nevil got came from the last crop grown in America, not the first. That was written before there was any beef with Sam, before Nevil was the king of cannabis when he was just a seed seller giving his customers an honest account of what they were buying. I also remember about a 10 year period where you and others went to every forum and relayed the story over and over and over that Nevil got his haze from the haze brothers. That was posted as FACT, remember? Now who was it that told you that story Hempy? You used to say you were getting your info straight from the source, so who told you those lies you repeated if not Nevil?
When Nevil was telling his story he said that burning bush was an ancestor to the haze seed he got. Burning bush was named by Sam, in 76. So how is burning bush an ancestor to 69 haze seed? The story makes no sense.

Wen did nevil tell anyone that story...he was in Australia with practically no contract with anyone from the seed business for years.....
​​​​​​...and were those 69 seeds ancestors of burning bush...wether it was named in 76 or early 80's...why would you not think thats a possibility...burning bush was on the mock listings sam made after acquiring all the original starting stock from the brothers in 80/81... different to the already 7 year inbred line seeds collected in 76.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

yea seems a bit weird to me too ..

looks like early flower on that girl darkie , its not the pic i was thinking of ,
maybe she fattens up a little and there is a later photo , or the other photo i was thinking of is another plant ,
no biggie ...

I do remember the pictures your saying Donald...the ones were kanga was still posting....and they looked hybrid like to me too when I seen them....for you guys over there its easier to work outdoors, but if I wanted to select parents I would have to do it indoors. Things tend to express different outdoors...for example those pictures you are on about I believe they were seed plants started on roughly outdoors 12/12 a couple of weeks old.....the picture I posted is one of the exact same plants Donald but this time from a over 6 month or older cutting and it behaves completely different. There is a whole lot more stretch on the plant, the leaves have slimed right out, huge internodes, scaty loser bud structure, and you'll see the tops start to keep throwing new flowers. I was surprised how big and tight kanga was getting the buds on the mullum to grow....ive seen it done in a not so good weather wise part of Australia and it would come out all scraggly looking....mind you ive seen some phenotypes of it done indoors and the buds come out tinny and scraggly too...guess it needs huge amounts of light....this is why for me I prefer to judge plants indoors....as their is a consitancy and control we can work with...outdoors there are too many variables...with you guys over there especially with someone like yourself, you have the long-term experience with working plants outdoors in excellent conditions so I guess making good selections outdoors is easier.

 

[@hempy]

Nevils story never changed? Who wrote the seedbank catalog descriptions? When Haze hybrids were put in the catalog the description clearly says the haze Nevil got came from the last crop grown in America, not the first. That was written before there was any beef with Sam, before Nevil was the king of cannabis when he was just a seed seller giving his customers an honest account of what they were buying. I also remember about a 10 year period where you and others went to every forum and relayed the story over and over and over that Nevil got his haze from the haze brothers. That was posted as FACT, remember? Now who was it that told you that story Hempy? You used to say you were getting your info straight from the source, so who told you those lies you repeated if not Nevil?
When Nevil was telling his story he said that burning bush was an ancestor to the haze seed he got. Burning bush was named by Sam, in 76. So how is burning bush an ancestor to 69 haze seed? The story makes no sense.

I am a bit confused at your post SativaScience Nevil has posted about this over at MrNice clearly stating the seed he bought from Sam had labels and dates on them but here is the dates.

From Nevil - Well, I had these very old seeds, They were not seeds that he bred because he's not that old ; the earliest batches of these seeds were from 1966 up until L970. They were very old genetics.

As for any info posted before Nevil set the record straight that was posted by shanti Sam and a few others and we as in all of us including you just re posted that information. Nevil did go to the states and i did ask Nevil if he had collected haze from with in the us and he told me no.

I honestly hate talking about Nevil and Sam's dealings as you just end up insulting one of them the realty is with out Sam no one would of seen Haze in the modern canna community and with out Nevil Who faced life in prison for breeding and shipping seed all over the world many of us would not of had the chance to grow them so credit should go to both of them and this Sam vs Nevil bull shit needs to end.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I am a bit confused at your post SativaScience Nevil has posted about this over at MrNice clearly stating the seed he bought from Sam had labels and dates on them but here is the dates.

From Nevil - Well, I had these very old seeds, They were not seeds that he bred because he's not that old ; the earliest batches of these seeds were from 1966 up until L970. They were very old genetics.

As for any info posted before Nevil set the record straight that was posted by shanti Sam and a few others and we as in all of us including you just re posted that information. Nevil did go to the states and i did ask Nevil if he had collected haze from with in the us and he told me no.

I honestly hate talking about Nevil and Sam's dealings as you just end up insulting one of them the realty is with out Sam no one would of seen Haze in the modern canna community and with out Nevil Who faced life in prison for breeding and shipping seed all over the world many of us would not of had the chance to grow them so credit should go to both of them and this Sam vs Nevil bull shit needs to end.

sam posted the minformation about himself ?? sounds a bit off ..

here is what he said with regards to the 69 seeds ,
im sure you have read this though hempy ..


AnatomiclySound,
"First things first, you should be aware I have alot of respect for you. But I have to say that Ive got first hand knowledge from those involved at MNS that contradict your story of giving Neville the seeds that ultimately went into the Nevilles Haze. They can and do trace their haze stock back to 1969 and I have absolutely no reason to doubt their words."
"Originally Posted by shantibaba :Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969"

You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS

Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 02-24-2008, 10:18.

 

[@hempy]

From Nevil - Well, I had these very old seeds, They were not seeds that he bred because he's not that old ; the earliest batches of these seeds were from 1966 up until L970. They were very old genetics.

This is what Nevil said Donald there are 2 sides to this story and why do some people act like Nevil had no role in this when he clearly was the guy buying the seed from Sam after he arrived in Holland and it was not just the Haze seed.

He was NOT given the seed for free he payed $1000s and Nevil said they were labeled with dates so why is Nevil's side of the story not believed.

1966 were the oldest seed going by the Labels Nevil Said and Nevil did manage to germinate 1 seed from that lot that was the plant that flowered for 9 months and never finished flowering

 

[@hempy]

We as a community should of moved on long ago and not remained stuck on what Nevil or Sam did and i mean this with the highest of respect towards both Sam And Nevil.

 

[Donald Mallard]

This is what Nevil said Donald there are 2 sides to this story and why do some people act like Nevil had no role in this when he clearly was the guy buying the seed from Sam after he arrived in Holland and it was not just the Haze seed.

He was NOT given the seed for free he payed $1000s and Nevil said they were labeled with dates so why is Nevil's side of the story not believed.

1966 were the oldest seed going by the Labels Nevil Said and Nevil did manage to germinate 1 seed from that lot that was the plant that flowered for 9 months and never finished flowering

its a bit like you giving something to someone that u know well what it was ,
and then we hear from the person you gave them too something completely different that contradicts what you have said ,

what would you have us do , believe you the person who sold or gave the stuff , or the other guy who received it ,
if it was somthing you valued hightly , dont you think you would know exactly what you gave them ???

you see what im getting at dont you ??

how could nevil know what those seeds were since he didnt make them ,
only sam could know , so he is probably the best guy to tell the story ,
if he says there were no seeds that age , then there were no seeds that age , end of story ,
well it should be anyhow .. it certainly is for me ...

 

[@hempy]

its a bit like you giving something to someone that u know well what it was ,
and then we hear from the person you gave them too something completely different that contradicts what you have said ,

what would you have us do , believe you the person who sold or gave the stuff , or the other guy who received it ,
if it was somthing you valued hightly , dont you think you would know exactly what you gave them ???

you see what im getting at dont you ??

how could nevil know what those seeds were since he didnt make them ,
only sam could know , so he is probably the best guy to tell the story ,
if he says there were no seeds that age , then there were no seeds that age , end of story ,
well it should be anyhow .. it certainly is for me ...

Nevil payed for the seed Donald there was no gifting involved it was pure business and i don't have a roll in this or do you or dose any one but Sam and Nevil and Nevil would clearly know about seed he paid $1000s for surely he would know what was written on labels of bags the seed were in i know what genetics i payed for that i got .

 

[ojd]

its a bit like you giving something to someone that u know well what it was ,
and then we hear from the person you gave them too something completely different that contradicts what you have said ,

what would you have us do , believe you the person who sold or gave the stuff , or the other guy who received it ,
if it was somthing you valued hightly , dont you think you would know exactly what you gave them ???

you see what im getting at dont you ??

how could nevil know what those seeds were since he didnt make them ,
only sam could know , so he is probably the best guy to tell the story ,
if he says there were no seeds that age , then there were no seeds that age , end of story ,
well it should be anyhow .. it certainly is for me ...

What about the story changing to all colombian 1 day by Sam , also what about the guy who made the Haze poster, i was told different stories to what sam says when the guy first arrived online .
there are many sides of the story , alot of people choose to stay quiet as there are some powerful people in this industry and 90% of the industry wouldn't sneeze in that direction let alone say a bad word against certain people online.

To me its really funny that since Nevil passed ( RIP) many people have come out the woodwork making claims etc etc and even some of the people who been around the whole time those storys have changed also.

 

[ojd]

its a bit like you giving something to someone that u know well what it was ,
and then we hear from the person you gave them too something completely different that contradicts what you have said ,

what would you have us do , believe you the person who sold or gave the stuff , or the other guy who received it ,
if it was somthing you valued hightly , dont you think you would know exactly what you gave them ???

you see what im getting at dont you ??

how could nevil know what those seeds were since he didnt make them ,
only sam could know , so he is probably the best guy to tell the story ,
if he says there were no seeds that age , then there were no seeds that age , end of story ,
well it should be anyhow .. it certainly is for me ...

Another theory is Sam didn't know certain seeds were better than others and Nevil got lucky with those seeds that did sprout.
They must of been old or if not they were not stored properly .
how old was Sam when he arrived in Holland ? , cant of been that much older than Nevil ? , how old was he when Original Haze was first made in the states.

Being at the birth of the Canna scene everyone involved did well and like hempy says thanks to Sam for bringing the Haze to Holland and Nevil for making it a Household name in every country.

 

[ojd]

its a bit like you giving something to someone that u know well what it was ,
and then we hear from the person you gave them too something completely different that contradicts what you have said ,

what would you have us do , believe you the person who sold or gave the stuff , or the other guy who received it ,
if it was somthing you valued hightly , dont you think you would know exactly what you gave them ???

you see what im getting at dont you ??

how could nevil know what those seeds were since he didnt make them ,
only sam could know , so he is probably the best guy to tell the story ,
if he says there were no seeds that age , then there were no seeds that age , end of story ,
well it should be anyhow .. it certainly is for me ...

But did Sam make the seeds , Or did he collect them from the field after a bust and fled to Holland ?

 

[Donald Mallard]

But did Sam make the seeds , Or did he collect them from the field after a bust and fled to Holland ?

sounds a bit far fetched ojd ,
its probably a lot more simple than that ,
like what the guy has said over and over more likely ,
or are u calling him a liar , since has never said he was busted , or collected seed from a field,
so what are u actually saying , why not come right out and say it instead of beating around the bush ...

HEMPY ,
of course , the part about giving was directed with you as the person ,
come on man keep up with things so i dont have to spell it out ,
its fairly obvious thats what i was saying ,
you say you have respect for sam ,
but you are doing the same thing as ojd ,
basically calling him a liar and saying what he has said over and over is untrue ,
because nevil knows more about what was in that seed than the man who made them and sold them to him does ,

you say lets stop this sam vs nevil thing , but its guys like you and ojd that have created it in the first place,
firstly spreading misinformation about nevil getting seeds directly from the haze brothers ,
and you couldnt be told any different , even though sam said it wasnt true ,
until nevil himself cleared it up ,
what you are doing now is exactly the same thing man ...

based on what sam has said , and has always said , there was no seed from that far back ,
he said he never shared seed made by the haze brothers ,
there never was many to share in the first place according to what he has said ,
that should be the end of the story ,
it would be to you both if nevil had said it ,
despite several of his business partners saying he lies and dont trust him....
the same has not been said about sam though ...

 

[@hempy]

All of us including You Donald have only ever re posted what Sam and Shanti and a few others have posted in relation to Haze and then came Nevil out of the shadows and set the record straight for the first time ever posting and answering every question put to him about haze and his other genetics over at MrNice.

I don't see to many calling Sam a lier Donald i know i have not called him that and yes i do show Sam respect now can you say the same about your comments towards Nevil ?. Lots have called Nevil a lier a thief and worse and all he did was what buy seed from Sam.

 

[bigherb]

ojd the seed maker - Really - ask yourself did he make the seeds or find them ? Did he find /collect thousands of seeds ? Come on . It’s almost as wild a story as the incense NY Haze loving pain in the ass , bringing the true origins of Original Haze story to light

Did he make thousands of Haze seeds before coming to Holland , ( probably) . Did he find thousands of seeds of something held very tight and seeds were not passed out or shared unless you were in the crew (highly unlikely to impossible) . Then why would he give away all of something Soo rare and sacred

Another theory is Nevils A/C males were given to him from
Sams . Nevil admitted Sams gave him several clones male and female



Kinda hard to not join this convo , I said I wouldn’t . I’ve said it all before and more . I have much Respect for both Sams and Nevil and I’ve called out all the contradicting facts on both sides to both of them . I’ve asked them both more questions than anyone. what matters most is the Haze genetics Sams spread have been spread by others pure and in hybrids world wide

It’s hard to believe the dates on seeds Nevil received . Let’s be realistic this 66 date or number has never been spoke of until his version . Initially he tells the world in the Seedbank catalog NL5HZC description that the Haze seed was salvaged from the last crop in America ( 66 or 81?). Two very different time lines and a whole other impossible scenario of stock from 66-70

Almost as hard as believing Haze information from the guys who said Nevil got his seeds directly from the Haze bros / different source from Sams, for years .


I’ve realized Things in later years , some still not clear but bits an pieces not fully explained such as timelines / genetics that have caused confusion . Such as a Thai leaning Original Haze aka burning Bush the description through the years is confusing but confirmed to be pure Colombian . Life is more simple then we make it ( Sometimes ) words written are taken literally and doesn’t always capture a person’s expression/ experience

With his recent revelations on the birth and genetics it all makes sense it coincides with the story I was told

Not much of a debate more common sense , but here we are for the last 13 plus years still arguing another mans story .After all the information now available If we don’t believe the closest source to the Haze who is part of the IC family and a prolific successful celebrated Respected member of the community then who

1luvbigherb

 

[marijuanamat]

Some mighty fine sativa nuggets, she looks like a keeper, nice resin productcion and i bet she's got that cedar,pine n pepper fragrance going on with a hint of fruit from the skunk. I love my sativas hybrids are always the best indoors as landrace vars can be a pain in the ars.

The original haze went from sam to neville cultivators choice,eventually the flying dutchman had them for years who sold there last stock to mr seedsman. i've got 2 lots of original haze dutchman and seedman and 2 other's tom hills and another i'm not sure where i got it.