The Haze discussion thread

[@hempy]

I updated my post, I didn't want to come off as mad (which I'm not).

Diluted/watered down per potency, which I believe it's the chances of finding something worth keeping. I might be wrong but it's similar to what you were saying about inbreeding Haze.

Royal all good mate i get what your saying but my point is even the Haze hybrids Nevil offered or the Ohaze Sam offered all need selection as they are not all potent plants.

What i found when in inbreeding Haze hybrids i brought it up with Nevil in more than one conversation and he saw the same.

The only explanation is the Indica no matter what % it is added to Haze it becomes a more dominant gean to the sativa and why it dominates more n more each inbreeding.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Royal all good mate i get what your saying but my point is even the Haze hybrids Nevil offered or the Ohaze Sam offered all need selection as they are not all potent plants.

What i found when in inbreeding Haze hybrids i brought it up with Nevil in more than one conversation and he saw the same.

The only explanation is the Indica no matter what % it is added to Haze it becomes a more dominant gean to the sativa and why it dominates more n more each inbreeding.

Interesting information @hempy

 

[JetLife175]

One thing I've always wondered about is if the same parents are always used does each seed breeding lot represent the same array of phenotypes.

Like if I breed Male A vs Female B and it's in the perfect environment they throw a seed lot full of winners.

Then a year later I breed the same male vs Female and the environmental situation isnt ideal and the parents are stressed can the seed lot represent much more of the negative traits each parent carries and this is why people will often complain that seed isn't the same, parents must have changed bla blah blah and in reality the parents are the same it's just grow to grow things aren't the same.

I mean also as we sit here in the haze thread with a focus on dutch haze particularly developed by Nevil we neglect to acknowledge almost every one of these strains is a text book unstable poly hybrid.

In my experience it doesn’t change the actual genetics of the progeny but it sure as hell can affect the health and viability of the progeny. A poorly kept room used for breeding will certainly produce shitty seed without a doubt.

 

[Donald Mallard]

One thing I've always wondered about is if the same parents are always used does each seed breeding lot represent the same array of phenotypes.

Like if I breed Male A vs Female B and it's in the perfect environment they throw a seed lot full of winners.

Then a year later I breed the same male vs Female and the environmental situation isnt ideal and the parents are stressed can the seed lot represent much more of the negative traits each parent carries and this is why people will often complain that seed isn't the same, parents must have changed bla blah blah and in reality the parents are the same it's just grow to grow things aren't the same.

I mean also as we sit here in the haze thread with a focus on dutch haze particularly developed by Nevil we neglect to acknowledge almost every one of these strains is a text book unstable poly hybrid.

the genetics are unchanged so the seed will be the same as it was in the first lot ...

 

[Donald Mallard]

How do you get diluted genetics ?

First off your dealing with hybrids so you have a great versation of expression with in a F1 strain.


Growing out 10 or 20 seed will allow you to find a great plant but there all not keepers never were that is the bad part to hybrids.

im unsure what you mean by greater versation of expression ,
what is versation ??



do u mean they have more variation ??



i guess that depends on the parentage, a proper f1 made with 2 stable inbred lines should have less variation in fact ,
they would be more likely to finish around the same time and be similar with a greater resistance to disease etc ,


so the variation you are noting is only because the parents are not stable as far as i know from what i have read and seen myself anyhow ...

the last sentence you wrote that i quoted is also explained by what i have written above ,, f1 hybrid should be closer to uniform and all similar and stronger plants and grow faster and yield better due to hybrid vigor ...

 

[@hempy]

Variation was the ward and we were discussing Nevil's haze or a haze hybrid and there F1s.

Your not going to see a uniform lot of plants in NH F1s or SSH F1s or any Haze hybrid F1s.They mite flower the same time but that would be about it smoke quality flower smell even flower look will very greatly.

I have only seen 3 dutch lines ever grow out uniform almost identical to the sister or brother plants .

They were Durban Poison / Early Pearl / Hindu Kush mid 80s all the Dutch genetics apart from them most of being Haze Hybrids have been all over the place.

 

[star crash]

One thing that I noticed ...is that if you were able to discover a good plant...And then you clone that plant..That The successive generations start to express themselves more fully...?..

 

[star crash]

Or would that case just be an example of a clone responding to environmental conditions?

 

[TheDarkStorm]

i bet i can take a wild guess as too what sam the skunkman has had over 30 years. my guess would be the new seeds arent done yet and this could take awhile. because i remember him stating new seeds were being made and after my first pack of original haze x skunk came up with purple haze phenos i willing to bet sam knows what hes talking about because ive had haze brothers purple haze from new york and its exactly what i got out of sam the skunkmans seeds.pics in album

Sam is retired...he dont produce seeds for companies right now an hasnt done in years...the last time he gave out stock it was from his storage and was years old an was given out probably more then ten years back....he's around ...you can ask him.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

No point getting angry mate its a fact when you grow out Haze hybrids the chances of finding a identical sibling is i would say near impossible.


Diluted could mean less potent or in say a Haze hybrid the line showing more indica to Haze.

Hempy have you seen musashis grow of Neville's haze over ther....his grown out more than 10 an they all look like variations of the same pheno...like its been stabilised...yeilds are huge on most too...an that was from stock from about 2014.....shanti also put pictures up of some germination tests an they all practical looked the same....someone asked him if ther wer clones an his reply was I dont know wat picture is being asked about....ther was only one picture.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

im unsure what you mean by greater versation of expression ,
what is versation ??



do u mean they have more variation ??



i guess that depends on the parentage, a proper f1 made with 2 stable inbred lines should have less variation in fact ,
they would be more likely to finish around the same time and be similar with a greater resistance to disease etc ,


so the variation you are noting is only because the parents are not stable as far as i know from what i have read and seen myself anyhow ...

the last sentence you wrote that i quoted is also explained by what i have written above ,, f1 hybrid should be closer to uniform and all similar and stronger plants and grow faster and yield better due to hybrid vigor ...

Most of them actually did donald...for example wen nevil himself made 5haze the chances of finding multiple potent plants in one pack wer huge...in the case of Neville's haze the inbreding of haze to haze caused it to drop...nevil said the co-efficiency was probably something like 35%..which was probably due to the nl#5 and/or wat ever the difference in genes was between hazeA and hazeC...but we wer still finding good plants atleast in evry pack...for nevil it brought the ratio down in his eyes to 1 in 20 wich was a excellent plant...some of the plants from many strains from his stuff are still around an stil not matched.

 

[GlandualFever]

99 ssh just gone for £366 well worth it in my opinion. someone's a lucky bunny.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Not bad considering its supposed to be the exact same seedline as any later batch.....99 was the year nevil won the cup for the third time in a row with ssh

 

[@hempy]

I wounder what % of growers in the community grow haze or sativas and focus only on the improvement or even preservation of set lines.


Funny fact me and Sam seam to have the same taste in cannabis heard Sam in a video that was posted saying he only prefers sativa type smokes.

 

[Elmer Bud]

.some of the plants from many strains from his stuff are still around an stil not matched.

Over rated ?

I tried C5 and was underwhelmed ! After reading bout it for years . Good smoke ,though not what I expected .
All that BS about people losing control of their bladder and or bowels ...

Some one with a vivid imagination was working in the marketing dept the day that was coined .

The yield of the C5 was what impressed me most . Fcking huge !!

So when I read Nevil say C5 was the ultimate plant I can`t help thinking it was a money maker . Strong enough and unique compared to all the Skunks and Indicas . But the big yields at premium prices were what made him love it .

EDIT ... Did I smoke C5 #1 or C5 #122 or another variation ???

 

[KiefSweat]

Winter greenhouse haze run.
If you like Dutch haze terps then I mean have fun.
Sativas are extremely generic unless you got something that throws out those 5% standouts the shits not worth the effort in my opinion.

The consumer sure isn’t asking for it.

 

[funkyhorse]

G'day EB
You are describing what I think of this C5 cut x Sour Diesel
What impresses me most in this cross is productivity

What i found when in inbreeding Haze hybrids i brought it up with Nevil in more than one conversation and he saw the same.

The only explanation is the Indica no matter what % it is added to Haze it becomes a more dominant gean to the sativa and why it dominates more n more each inbreeding.

Hempy, is this the reason why you mean Nevil's F1's were better than progeny? If you are a sativa lover then it certainly will be the case.

But a lot of people are drooling for indicas and interested in the NL line, so for them it is not diluted but the more you inbreed it then the better it gets for them as Dj9 was saying when he was hyping an NL5xH F6 very indica leaning, at the end of the day is a matter of tastes, what is diluted for you or me it seems to be enhanced for others

 

[@hempy]

Hempy, is this the reason why you mean Nevil's F1's were better than progeny? If you are a sativa lover then it certainly will be the case.

But a lot of people are drooling for indicas and interested in the NL line, so for them it is not diluted but the more you inbreed it then the better it gets for them as Dj9 was saying when he was hyping an NL5xH F6 very indica leaning, at the end of the day is a matter of tastes, what is diluted for you or me it seems to be enhanced for others

Hi funkyhorse i just dont like the affect that comes from NL and most indicas why i culled the SSH.

I call that affect a dirty high were some indicas and hash even tho still give a narcotic stone are pleasurable.

The more you inbreed a haze hybrid the more the indica dominates and why i would not do it were others would as they like the NL affect not me i am after the haze high.

I selected a MH that shanti said smelt smoked and looked like the real C5 yes it had a huge yield but so do most F1 haze hybrids but if its the real C5 it should be extremely potent also.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I thought the c5 gave an excellent head high ,

but not more potent than some other hybrids of haze i have tried ,
the nevils haze was stronger imho ,
but in honesty i think i preferred the c5 high to nh ..

and maybe mh more then either ...

but of course our experiences of cannabis high are all subjective ,
and what i experience may not be the same as others ...

 

[@hempy]

Winter greenhouse haze run.
If you like Dutch haze terps then I mean have fun.
Sativas are extremely generic unless you got something that throws out those 5% standouts the shits not worth the effort in my opinion.

The consumer sure isn’t asking for it.

I would not grow a haze or a haze hybrid or a sativa unless it was very good smoke the flower time needed alone is a big commitment.

Bag appeal in pure sativas wont be as good as a heavy indica but people wanting a good sativa high cant expect that to come from a pure sativa.