The Haze discussion thread

[Elmer Bud]

I think hempys experience is with some of the stuff earlier EB...so he may not have experience like he said with stuff from the last ten years.....be nice if you can share your experiences with us too...with indication of a stock time line...you have alot of experience with stuff from over their so wat youve seen from your point of veiw would be helpfull.
I will add that wen shanti was at ghs the widow was very good an didnt cary hermies...I didnt see hundreds of different phenos being grown but from wat I did see an clones that wer keep around by people for a while they wer fine...no seeds or hermies ever.

Grew Black widow circa 2010 .
Only a cpl . No herms . But ,,, I was a regular reader of Mr nice forum for the last 10 years and lots and lots of herm reports from growers .

I crossed SSH to Shit . Grew out the seeds . Guess what ? More herms than a trannie bar in BKK .

 

[LostTribe]

Black Widow dose not hermie in my limited experience .

There you go fixed that for you . It most certainly has , can , does , will .

Like I said if no herms , can be good smoke .
But doing the Mr nice forum thing and pretending Shanti walks on water won`t cut it here Hempy . lot`s of folks here know better .

I had a single experience w dp fem widow 02 lowers had pollen but the smoke was fire. A short spicy roundish leafed plant with a potent up yet stoney moving high. I want to see if the expensive dp are still the same as reports say.

 

[Koondense]

I disagree about clones staying the same.
My limited experience showed pheno variations in clones after four generations, some were revegged before flowered again, showed clear differences in flower structure and growth pattern especially during the stretch.
Could be an anomaly but to me is a proven fact.


Cheers

 

[Donald Mallard]

probably changed growing conditions koondense , not the cutting changing ,

they can perform differently depending on where and how they are grown of course , but the genetics does not change ....

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Geneticly scientificly if tested it dont change...but I have seen cuttings adapt, some for the better some become or should I say look totaly different to what they wer...ive seen two exact same cuttings come back years later an look completely different even wen then put side by side...I think they can begin to express themselves diffrently like phenotypes..but wen bred an seed is made...those seeds should still be the same...as geniticly it still should be able to pass on the same info (traits) it always has

 

[kickarse]

Run the same cutting for almost 20 years in three different places , it never changed

 

[chilliwilli]

Once made a side by side with the trainwreck going around austria. Got the same clone from 2 shops(flowery fields, blumen per lumen). Optical they were the same but the one from bpl was a hint sweeter imo. I think how u treat a clone makes a differenc for the outcome.

 

[Koondense]

probably changed growing conditions koondense , not the cutting changing ,

they can perform differently depending on where and how they are grown of course , but the genetics does not change ....

Yes, mostly temperatures and vpd.
But if phenos change how can one make selections? It can get complicated.
In my case I assume it could be due to revegging because they were taken when under 12/12.
Also if it were more frequent would be observeded by more people I guess.

Haze on!

Cheers

 

[RoyalFlush]

how many of you keep a mother vs taking a cutting before every flower? Does this make any difference in quality?

 

[TakenByTheSky]

Run the same cutting for almost 20 years in three different places , it never changed

I had the schrom clone for a few years and I can 100% say the final product from grow to grow would change with subtle environmental changes.

Sometimes it would have more resin, be more swollen, other times it would have more hair. It's physical look would be different and sometimes the taste would be more pronounced.

We see this here when many growers will all grow the same clone in different gardens, there will be subtle to extreme differences in how they look.

So yes, genetically it stays the same but the way it looks, tastes etc.. can change with environment. To someone who doesn't know any better they might think the change was on a genetic level but I think this falls under epigenetics where environment will alter an organism based on environmental factors.

 

[star crash]

It’s better to recycle the genetics

 

[star crash]

Don’t let the mom get too old ! recycle her!

 

[star crash]

Run the same cutting for almost 20 years in three different places , it never changed

Clones R recognizable...I agree

 

[Hammerhead]

how many of you keep a mother vs taking a cutting before every flower? Does this make any difference in quality?

I keep moms for 1 year. I then take a clone for a new mom and another year.

When I flower my moms they always perform better than the younger cuts. IMO a good veg is super important. They don't change much when kept in good health and conditions don't change. Getting t oknow your plants helps.. Some plants hate being topped to much. This can ruin a run.

 

[star crash]

I can’t hold moms for a year..I think that’s way too long

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have kept mothers for 30 years plus with no problems of their genetic expression they are exactly the same if kept disease free and grown the same size, in the same soil amounts & fertilizers, under the same light source & lumens, for the same number of hours, and with the same temperatures and if they have not picked up Viruses or other Cannabis diseases like Bacterial Diseases, Fungal Diseases, Phytoplasma Diseases, primarily transmitted from Insect pests.

I think viruses are the big one that can alter Phenotypic expression they can reduce yield, vigor, as well as resistance to Cannabis pests & diseases. Phenotypic expression also does change in mothers if the environment is altered.

For example, I have found 26 viruses that have been found in Cannabis, as well as research suggesting that exposure and infection to multiple Viruses can cause symptoms that do not really show up when Cannabis is exposed to just one Virus that is normally symptom-free in Cannabis, like most Viruses are that infect Cannabis.

So you need to use extreme proper IPM to keep mothers exposure to pests to the very minimum possible. It is insect pests that transmit most of the viruses to Cannabis.

Most people can not clean up a mother plant with viruses or other diseases without help from an In Vitro process that also has the ability to first test and confirm the plant has the virus or other disease and if grown in vitro and the virus eliminated tested to confirm the virus or other disease is gone. As few even know all of the 26 viruses there is little chance they can test for them all, that and today it is 26 Cannabis viruses but I find new ones almost every year.

I also try and grow out each mother in the ground in my greenhouse under the sun each year over 10 feet tall and use only vigorous mother plant materials for new clones to plant or use as mothers, it can be done if you try hard enough. It is not easy. If Virus-free they can be maintained In Vitro to keep them that way.

But this can keep the mothers producing healthy vigorous clones that do not change if grown identically as before.
Normally it is the phenotypic expression being altered by pests and diseases or the environment not the Genotypic expression.

-SamS

 

[ojd]

I'm wondering which strains they are that are 30 plus year old from mothers you keep ?
must be some of the lost plants we dont see anymore.

I have kept mothers for 30 years plus with no problems of their genetic expression they are exactly the same if kept disease free and grown the same size, in the same soil amounts & fertilizers, under the same light source & lumens, for the same number of hours, and with the same temperatures and if they have not picked up Viruses or other Cannabis diseases like Bacterial Diseases, Fungal Diseases, Phytoplasma Diseases, primarily transmitted from Insect pests.

I think viruses are the big one that can alter Phenotypic expression they can reduce yield, vigor, as well as resistance to Cannabis pests & diseases. Phenotypic expression also does change in mothers if the environment is altered.

For example, I have found 26 viruses that have been found in Cannabis, as well as research suggesting that exposure and infection to multiple Viruses can cause symptoms that do not really show up when Cannabis is exposed to just one Virus that is normally symptom-free in Cannabis, like most Viruses are that infect Cannabis.

So you need to use extreme proper IPM to keep mothers exposure to pests to the very minimum possible. It is insect pests that transmit most of the viruses to Cannabis.

Most people can not clean up a mother plant with viruses or other diseases without help from an In Vitro process that also has the ability to first test and confirm the plant has the virus or other disease and if grown in vitro and the virus eliminated tested to confirm the virus or other disease is gone. As few even know all of the 26 viruses there is little chance they can test for them all, that and today it is 26 Cannabis viruses but I find new ones almost every year.

I also try and grow out each mother in the ground in my greenhouse under the sun each year over 10 feet tall and use only vigorous mother plant materials for new clones to plant or use as mothers, it can be done if you try hard enough. It is not easy. If Virus-free they can be maintained In Vitro to keep them that way.

But this can keep the mothers producing healthy vigorous clones that do not change if grown identically as before.
Normally it is the phenotypic expression being altered by pests and diseases or the environment not the Genotypic expression.

-SamS

 

[Donald Mallard]

how many of you keep a mother vs taking a cutting before every flower? Does this make any difference in quality?

no difference ,
seems to be rumor that a cutting of a cutting of a cutting changes , looses potency etc ,
its not the cutting , it remains the same ....

as mentioned there can be slight variation due to growing conditions , but the genetics stay the same and in the same conditions will produce the exact same thing every time over and over and over ,
if this didnt happen , there would be no point to keeping cuttings...

 

[harvestreaper]

I have kept mothers for 30 years plus with no problems of their genetic expression they are exactly the same if kept disease free and grown the same size, in the same soil amounts & fertilizers, under the same light source & lumens, for the same number of hours, and with the same temperatures and if they have not picked up Viruses or other Cannabis diseases like Bacterial Diseases, Fungal Diseases, Phytoplasma Diseases, primarily transmitted from Insect pests.

I think viruses are the big one that can alter Phenotypic expression they can reduce yield, vigor, as well as resistance to Cannabis pests & diseases. Phenotypic expression also does change in mothers if the environment is altered.

For example, I have found 26 viruses that have been found in Cannabis, as well as research suggesting that exposure and infection to multiple Viruses can cause symptoms that do not really show up when Cannabis is exposed to just one Virus that is normally symptom-free in Cannabis, like most Viruses are that infect Cannabis.

So you need to use extreme proper IPM to keep mothers exposure to pests to the very minimum possible. It is insect pests that transmit most of the viruses to Cannabis.

Most people can not clean up a mother plant with viruses or other diseases without help from an In Vitro process that also has the ability to first test and confirm the plant has the virus or other disease and if grown in vitro and the virus eliminated tested to confirm the virus or other disease is gone. As few even know all of the 26 viruses there is little chance they can test for them all, that and today it is 26 Cannabis viruses but I find new ones almost every year.

I also try and grow out each mother in the ground in my greenhouse under the sun each year over 10 feet tall and use only vigorous mother plant materials for new clones to plant or use as mothers, it can be done if you try hard enough. It is not easy. If Virus-free they can be maintained In Vitro to keep them that way.

But this can keep the mothers producing healthy vigorous clones that do not change if grown identically as before.
Normally it is the phenotypic expression being altered by pests and diseases or the environment not the Genotypic expression.

-SamS

interesting post sam,,,,you ever found any virus resistant strains ??? are these viruses naturally occuring or cross contaminated from other domestic lines of plants ?? i like to get mums out in the sun to seems to revitalize them if kept indoors a long time

 

[Guest]

I can’t hold moms for a year..I think that’s way too long

I had this mum 10 years before i made a new one.