The Haze discussion thread

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes - I wholeheartedly agree with Sam here - and in many other threads we often see - members straying away from the topic at hand - to regale some other member - in a very personal fashion -

- So please stop with the ad hominem attacks against other members - the debate is not about you and me and other members - its about HAZE!

If the personal insults keep flying I will just remove any/all posts that are basically insults. You can all stick to info you know or believe about Haze and discuss that as well as Haze related info, try and keep all the attacks of other posters person to your self, or I will be forced to close the thread.
It is clear that some of the posters seem to enjoy the personal attacks, or what they consider a clever debate, but it has almost ruined this thread, please try and ignore the people involved with insults and stick to the Haze discussions, regardless if you feel justified or not. I really do not want to waste my time being a traffic cop on this thread but I will if I am given no choice.

-SamS

 

[harvestreaper]

shit was my post deleted ,,,,,only a bit humour guys you can check my posts dont ccome here for conflict

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes - I deleted it because it was the 'tat' bit of a 'tit for tat' exchange with another member who attacked you personally -

- and if I see any more personal attacks - the ban hammer will come out - and that member will be sent to the salt mines in Siberia for a while - as a form of self improvement -

* can we just get back to the story of HAZE - and some of the wonderful HAZE pictures? -

shit was my post deleted ,,,,,only a bit humour guys you can check my posts dont ccome here for conflict

 

[harvestreaper]

he was joking brother as was my reply but sure im all for the greater good so dont shoot lol

 

[zif]

what is generally thought ?? ,,,,this does not ring true with any observations ive seen with closed genepools,, i think it very much can be and is selected for and in nature its happening all the time the theory of filial degeneration relates a strain will revert to its average therefore the average has to be kept extremely high this is exactly how nature shows us by selecting only vigorous lifeforms for any/all applications,,, its man who does not always follow those rules of selection and encounters inevitable problems , the vigor is either showing dominant in the individual or it aint no matter how many genes are involved in producing it ,,,so it seems to me its selected for by some breeders and also in nature were we took the plants and animals from

I don’t agree that vigor is all or nothing.

When I say it’s not a trait, I mean that you can’t isolate and fix it, as you might isolate and fix purple flowers, or webbed leaves.

It’s ‘quantitative’, so you can perhaps move populations slowly up or down the scale. Or you can seek it more rapidly via hybridization.

Of course it’s very important, though. Plant breeding theory revolves around it, in many ways.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

Not to dumb down the conversation. But I would assume sometimes there is an exception to the rule. When dealing with enough genes or enough seeds sooner or later surprises or exceptions will pop up and if that surprise is chosen as parent material it will forever change that line if followed.

Kinda like assisted evolution.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Here’s some of Todd’s/Sam Skunkman’s Ohaze. I’m not going to make a thread about these as I’m running a bunch of other stuff and really don’t want to manage a thread here on IC atm.

I’ll be posting updates of these plants from time to time if that’s ok with you guys.

Germ rate not too shabby so far.

HB.

 

[star crash]

I’m not 100% positive yet but I think I got one male and one female from the 1997 super silver haze f3 pop ..
these were made by the ICMAG member “toxic hippie”... he doesn’t post much anymore ,but you can look him up he’s legit he’s been around for years ...I’m kind of excited also I will take ideas from anybody on how to proceed ...I am non-discriminatoryI will get some pics up forthcoming..

 

[TakenByTheSky]

I’m not 100% positive yet but I think I got one male and one female from the 1997 super silver haze f3 pop ..
these were made by the ICMAG member “toxic hippie”... he doesn’t post much anymore ,but you can look him up he’s legit he’s been around for years ...I’m kind of excited also I will take ideas from anybody on how to proceed ...I am non-discriminatoryI will get some pics up forthcoming..

When a mommy and daddy plant love eachother very much they make sweet love and a few months later the babies are born. It would be a travesty to let those old sshs go to waste.

 

[star crash]

When a mommy and daddy plant love eachother very much they make sweet love and a few months later the babies are born. It would be a travesty to let those old sshs go to waste.

Do you think I should mate them?

 

[TakenByTheSky]

Do you think I should mate them?

Well coming from someone that has been obsessed with pheno hunting ssh since 2007 I'd would say yes but I'm a bit biased. If you make them but me up maybe we could work out a trade.

 

[harvestreaper]

I don’t agree that vigor is all or nothing.

When I say it’s not a trait, I mean that you can’t isolate and fix it, as you might isolate and fix purple flowers, or webbed leaves.

It’s ‘quantitative’, so you can perhaps move populations slowly up or down the scale. Or you can seek it more rapidly via hybridization.

Of course it’s very important, though. Plant breeding theory revolves around it, in many ways.

thankyou for explaining your point and theory its a little clearer now and it makes sense altho i still disagree ,,its good to disagree it creates fertile ground for learning ,,it appears to me the loss of vigor always comes from mans tampering as nature takes care of the selection process quantitative or otherwise as is required for every natural environment its only when man removes the species from its environment from were its stress tested for vigor 24 7 and puts it in an unnatural environment combined with unnatural breeding selection processes does the loss of vigor suddenly appear,, its not a mystery it can be seen ,, man usually has a set goal a set of traits hes trying to get to with the genetics hes using and lets the fundamentals drop by the wayside its the most common type of breeding and is pretty much standard s not hard to see why ,for me breeding is refinement it does not matter if its a pure small lineage or a large scatter bred lineage the principles are the same its just the latter will obviously have many more combinations to sieve through and isolate and recombine just to get to the same starting point as the former ,,one is water and one one is mud if you like,, but the point remains in either scenario vigor has to be selected for ,mankind often seems to blame inbreeding but its really only the inbreeding or environmental interference man has done that causes it ,, nature examples would be infestations of foreign species in other countries ,,rabbits ,,grey squirrel in uk ,,mice in Australia etc very small gene pools explode into millions with no loss of vigor for me the difference to mans inbreeding is that the environment requires vigor selection among other things

 

[harvestreaper]

Here’s some of Todd’s/Sam Skunkman’s Ohaze. I’m not going to make a thread about these as I’m running a bunch of other stuff and really don’t want to manage a thread here on IC atm.

I’ll be posting updates of these plants from time to time if that’s ok with you guys.

Germ rate not too shabby so far.

View Image

HB.

ordered some meself HB good to see em poppin

 

[harvestreaper]

Not to dumb down the conversation. But I would assume sometimes there is an exception to the rule. When dealing with enough genes or enough seeds sooner or later surprises or exceptions will pop up and if that surprise is chosen as parent material it will forever change that line if followed.

Kinda like assisted evolution.

theres is no dumbing down its a discussion thread ,, and your right there are no absolutes generally speaking ,,its more just probabilty

 

[F2F]

Bigtaco - agreed. the biggest and most impactful progressions of change in nature are the result of evolutionary quantum leaps made possible by “freak” mutations and anomalies, not the standard and slow drift due to small and constant pressures.

Cheers
F2F

Not to dumb down the conversation. But I would assume sometimes there is an exception to the rule. When dealing with enough genes or enough seeds sooner or later surprises or exceptions will pop up and if that surprise is chosen as parent material it will forever change that line if followed.

Kinda like assisted evolution.

 

[RoyalFlush]

This thread is already running out of steam.

 

[Raco]

If the personal insults keep flying I will just remove any/all posts that are basically insults. You can all stick to info you know or believe about Haze and discuss that as well as Haze related info, try and keep all the attacks of other posters person to your self, or I will be forced to close the thread.
It is clear that some of the posters seem to enjoy the personal attacks, or what they consider a clever debate, but it has almost ruined this thread, please try and ignore the people involved with insults and stick to the Haze discussions, regardless if you feel justified or not. I really do not want to waste my time being a traffic cop on this thread but I will if I am given no choice.

-SamS

Yes - I deleted it because it was the 'tat' bit of a 'tit for tat' exchange with another member who attacked you personally -

- and if I see any more personal attacks - the ban hammer will come out - and that member will be sent to the salt mines in Siberia for a while - as a form of self improvement -

* can we just get back to the story of HAZE - and some of the wonderful HAZE pictures? -

Have you heard guys?? please be cool and delete your bs

THHz

 

[Elmer Bud]

Have you heard guys?? please be cool and delete your bs

THHz

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=82574&pictureid=2022514&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

But , but , but . lol .

Is Tom Hill`s theory on inbreeding from the Everyone is a breeder thread still around?
If not did anyone make a copy ?

That was the most comprehensive instruction in selfing I have read .Pick a line . Select and self the best few . Keep separate families . Inbreed and select ,rinse - repeat [selfing = approx 2.5 generations of M-F breeding ]
Then put one IBL to another and restore vigour .

That way you have isolated the traits you want . And then the final cross makes a fem F1 !

 

[JetLife175]

But , but , but . lol .

Is Tom Hill`s theory on inbreeding from the Everyone is a breeder thread still around?
If not did anyone make a copy ?

That was the most comprehensive instruction in selfing I have read .Pick a line . Select and self the best few . Keep separate families . Inbreed and select ,rinse - repeat [selfing = approx 2.5 generations of M-F breeding ]
Then put one IBL to another and restore vigour .

That way you have isolated the traits you want . And then the final cross makes a fem F1 !

Tom was ahead of his time that’s for sure. I’m trying to keep his techniques alive though. They produce solid results without a doubt.

 

[Raco]

But , but , but . lol .

Is Tom Hill`s theory on inbreeding from the Everyone is a breeder thread still around?
If not did anyone make a copy ?

That was the most comprehensive instruction in selfing I have read .Pick a line . Select and self the best few . Keep separate families . Inbreed and select ,rinse - repeat [selfing = approx 2.5 generations of M-F breeding ]
Then put one IBL to another and restore vigour .

That way you have isolated the traits you want . And then the final cross makes a fem F1 !

Hola EB

I´ve spent many hours discussing with Tom ...

I´m not pro...no breeder ...just another afficionado...grower since 1978...and let me tell you just one thing folks

Unless you´re born in the 50s I think you don´t know what you are talking about..for sure LOL

Tom used to call/insult me "old man" LOLOL