The Haze discussion thread

[@hempy]

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It´s Angola x Meao Thai F2...think about re-combination

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=1209&pictureid=2024997View Image

I like the look of it Raco i loved the look of the Angola to whats the smoke like.

 

[@hempy]

Nh21 pure.... ......do you know if they tried this indoors hempy....i recon if done in doors it would almost remind me of one of the ones we wer getting bit further back.... did you get a chance to try any of this one out?
Not my picture.
Do you reckon that it puffed up so much cuz of the near perfect environment its been grown in over ther...

Hiya Dark is that one of the ones Nevil and Kanga selected ?.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Yes hempy...probably one of ther pictures

EB....dam postman......do you know if anyone else actually managed to grow it indoors......
I seen one pheno think the 23 it come out like some creeper thing, alot of it growing on the floor....

 

[star crash]

Hey can some of you guys with more experience help explain to us why inbreeding is a bad thing?

 

[Elmer Bud]

My buddy who sent them to me grew them indoors .
He got them from another guy who was also a friend of Nevil`s , also now deceased.

Buddy grew them 1 time then scrapped them .

 

[harvestreaper]

Hey can some of you guys with more experience help explain to us why inbreeding is a bad thing?

inbreeding is not a bad thing at all its a myth that people describe it as such but like other breeding systems it can be bad it depends what your inbreeding if you take a landrace from a small island weres there been a small popluation for say 500 years and you bred a brother and sister together <the heaviest inbreeding possible> you will get a combination of both siblings positive and recessive traits some of the unseen recessive traits maybe defects or undesirable but they should be quite easy to know understand and isolate with such a pure genepool,,if you then cross a brother and sister from a lemon sk x og kush x haze x hawaian you will again get both the dominant an recessive genes of both parents in the offspring but this time you have them from 4 different lines most of which are a mix themselves of several lines you will therefore have many more possibiltys showing up in the offspring both good and bad because of the much larger amount of bad recessives in outcrossbred lineages people assume inbreeding is a bad thing when all it does is reveal whats already there which in effect is of great use to a breeder in removing defects and improving health ,,plants an animals come from nature and nature breeds to such a level of purity that animals look like clones but the selection criteria is much higher than mans and any defect is not tolerated and therefore gets eliminated or reduced greatly from the genepool when you hear stories of inbreeding being bad its human beings fucking around with nature trying to apply there own humanity to a system that already works perfectly with no humanity is pretty vain of us really lol so in the case of human being we go forth an multiply we are esentially mongrels therefore we carry many recessive defects and positives from a 1000 lineages so if we inbreed you gonna see a whole heap of defects pop straight up but its not the inbreeding that caused it its genetic material being used and the inbreeding simply revealed it hope that made sense as to how it can be bad sorry to ramble lol

this female is pollinated by a nephew who is the offspring of her full brother and sister,,pretty inbred

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

.

inbreeding is not a bad thing at all its a myth that people describe it as such but like other breeding systems it can be bad it depends what your inbreeding if you take a landrace from a small island weres there been a small popluation for say 500 years and you bred a brother and sister together <the heaviest inbreeding possible>

Selfing a single plant from that population and making S1's, then S2's, then S3's the inbreeding is much worse. Lots of negative recessive traits will pop up for sure. -SamS

you will get a combination of both siblings positive and recessive traits some of the unseen recessive traits maybe defects or undesirable but they should be quite easy to know understand and isolate with such a pure genepool,,if you then cross a brother and sister from a lemon sk x og kush x haze x hawaian you will again get both the dominant an recessive genes of both parents in the offspring but this time you have them from 4 different lines most of which are a mix themselves of several lines you will therefore have many more possibiltys showing up in the offspring both good and bad because of the much larger amount of bad recessives in outcrossbred lineages people assume inbreeding is a bad thing when all it does is reveal whats already there which in effect is of great use to a breeder in removing defects and improving health ,,plants an animals come from nature and nature breeds to such a level of purity that animals look like clones but the selection criteria is much higher than mans and any defect is not tolerated and therefore gets eliminated or reduced greatly from the genepool when you hear stories of inbreeding being bad its human beings fucking around with nature trying to apply there own humanity to a system that already works perfectly with no humanity is pretty vain of us really lol so in the case of human being we go forth an multiply we are esentially mongrels therefore we carry many recessive defects and positives from a 1000 lineages so if we inbreed you gonna see a whole heap of defects pop straight up but its not the inbreeding that caused it its genetic material being used and the inbreeding simply revealed it hope that made sense as to how it can be bad sorry to ramble lol


View Image
this female is pollinated by a nephew who is the offspring of her full brother and sister,,pretty inbred

 

[harvestreaper]

.

Selfing a single plant from that population and making S1's, then S2's, then S3's the inbreeding is much worse. Lots of negative recessive traits will pop up for sure. -SamS



interesting sam my experiance mainly comes from animals and ive never selfed a plant that many gens that is inbreeding and linebreeding simultaneously and i dont believe would be possible naturally ,,your experiences were only negative with this process?

 

[@hempy]

Males play a huge roll in cleaning up mutations

 

[@hempy]

Nh21 pure.... ......do you know if they tried this indoors hempy....i recon if done in doors it would almost remind me of one of the ones we wer getting bit further back.... did you get a chance to try any of this one out?
Not my picture.
Do you reckon that it puffed up so much cuz of the near perfect environment its been grown in over ther...

I don't think they were flowered indoors i never tried them but Nev did offer to send me some but i said no.

I still have NH f1s Nev made stored.

The flowers pictured there if you were to remove the reddish color in the flowers leaving a more yellow that would be what you would expect Mullum to look like.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Selfing a single plant from that population and making S1's, then S2's, then S3's the inbreeding is much worse. Lots of negative recessive traits will pop up for sure. -SamS



interesting sam my experiance mainly comes from animals and ive never selfed a plant that many gens that is inbreeding and linebreeding simultaneously and i dont believe would be possible naturally ,,your experiences were only negative with this process?

Iv seen sum stuff going around personally ....probably made with s1 parents...with probably plenty s1-s4's in ther background....wat im seeing with lines like this now at s3 or 4 from a clone, the seeds are taking many months to grow...throwing many mutant plants, ridiculously small yields, throwing way to many runty plants....thers some lines that are like this that have used regular breeding with males or females but ther not doing too good....but it really depends on what your doing it with...an how you do it...usually f1's work different an should work better than the parents depending on if ther done with proper unrelated plants....if your gona inbreed you need to know wat your doing...how to do it an wat your working with....its not always easy to cary all the traits through in a line....abit easier if the line is pure...meaning breed for many many generations to give a set of traits.. plant can take inbreeding quite well....doing it properly is not so easy...but then it would also depend on what your trying to inbreed.....evrything an anything in the line as well as its decendants..good and bad an stuff you may not even see.... or are you trying to inbreed an cary something in particular.


By S4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile, also poor yields, no pest and disease resistance. We made many S3 or S4 seeds for selecting parents for our single Cannabinoid breeding work but we did have the ability to restore the Vigor and delete or mask the recessive negative traits with a method used for other crops. Any single Cannabinoid say for THCV, we used 4 landrace unrelated lines, in the case of THCV, Afghan, Thai, S African Durban, and Calif Orange that all had about 1% THCV. After selfing each line separately and selecting the progeney plants with the highest THCV values which by S3 or S4 yielded plants that were 5%-7% THCV but all inbred and all but useless except for the target Cannabinoid, we combined the best of each of the 4 lines and restored the full F1 vigor found in F1 hybrids. A bit of work but it did work very well. As long as the 4 combined lines are unrelated. We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids, and high yielding with great pest and disease resistance, and vigor.
All Cannabis is Heterozygous and will deteriorate as a Homozygous plant with lots of problems expressed. By selfing S4 or more you get closer to Homozygous and all the recessive problems are expressed.
-SamS

 

[star crash]

inbreeding is not a bad thing at all its a myth that people describe it as such but like other breeding systems it can be bad it depends what your inbreeding if you take a landrace from a small island weres there been a small popluation for say 500 years and you bred a brother and sister together <the heaviest inbreeding possible> you will get a combination of both siblings positive and recessive traits some of the unseen recessive traits maybe defects or undesirable but they should be quite easy to know understand and isolate with such a pure genepool,,if you then cross a brother and sister from a lemon sk x og kush x haze x hawaian you will again get both the dominant an recessive genes of both parents in the offspring but this time you have them from 4 different lines most of which are a mix themselves of several lines you will therefore have many more possibiltys showing up in the offspring both good and bad because of the much larger amount of bad recessives in outcrossbred lineages people assume inbreeding is a bad thing when all it does is reveal whats already there which in effect is of great use to a breeder in removing defects and improving health ,,plants an animals come from nature and nature breeds to such a level of purity that animals look like clones but the selection criteria is much higher than mans and any defect is not tolerated and therefore gets eliminated or reduced greatly from the genepool when you hear stories of inbreeding being bad its human beings fucking around with nature trying to apply there own humanity to a system that already works perfectly with no humanity is pretty vain of us really lol so in the case of human being we go forth an multiply we are esentially mongrels therefore we carry many recessive defects and positives from a 1000 lineages so if we inbreed you gonna see a whole heap of defects pop straight up but its not the inbreeding that caused it its genetic material being used and the inbreeding simply revealed it hope that made sense as to how it can be bad sorry to ramble lol


View Image
this female is pollinated by a nephew who is the offspring of her full brother and sister,,pretty inbred

Holy fucking shit Bat man ..
thank you

 

[Guest]

My Super Lemon Haze I acquired a clone of. This is my first time growing out a couple cuts.
Day 39

 

[Hammerhead]

<div>

Originally Posted by harvestreaper View Post
inbreeding is not a bad thing at all its a myth that people describe it as such but like other breeding systems it can be bad it depends what your inbreeding if you take a landrace from a small island weres there been a small population for say 500 years and you bred a brother and sister together <the heaviest="" inbreeding="" possible="">

Selfing a single plant from that population and making S1's, then S2's, then S3's the inbreeding is much worse. Lots of negative recessive traits will pop up for sure. -SamS

you will get a combination of both siblings positive and recessive traits some of the unseen recessive traits maybe defects or undesirable but they should be quite easy to know understand and isolate with such a pure genepool,,if you then cross a brother and sister from a lemon sk x og kush x haze x hawaian you will again get both the dominant an recessive genes of both parents in the offspring but this time you have them from 4 different lines most of which are a mix themselves of several lines you will therefore have many more possibility showing up in the offspring both good and bad because of the much larger amount of bad recessives in out crossbred lineages people assume inbreeding is a bad thing when all it does is reveal whats already there which in effect is of great use to a breeder in removing defects and improving health ,,plants an animals come from nature and nature breeds to such a level of purity that animals look like clones but the selection criteria is much higher than mans and any defect is not tolerated and therefore gets eliminated or reduced greatly from the gene pool when you hear stories of inbreeding being bad its human beings fucking around with nature trying to apply there own humanity to a system that already works perfectly with no humanity is pretty vain of us really lol so in the case of human being we go forth an multiply we are essentially mongrels therefore we carry many recessive defects and positives from a 1000 lineages so if we inbreed you gonna see a whole heap of defects pop straight up but its not the inbreeding that caused it its genetic material being used and the inbreeding simply revealed it hope that made sense as to how it can be bad sorry to ramble lol
View Image
this female is pollinated by a nephew who is the offspring of her full brother and sister,,pretty inbred

I agree with Sam.. The more selfing you do the more of those bad recessive traits pop up. IMO I wouldn't go passed S4

 

[harvestreaper]

Iv seen sum stuff going around personally ....probably made with s1 parents...with probably plenty s1-s4's in ther background....wat im seeing with lines like this now at s3 or 4 from a clone, the seeds are taking many months to grow...throwing many mutant plants, ridiculously small yields, throwing way to many runty plants....thers some lines that are like this that have used regular breeding with males or females but ther not doing too good....but it really depends on what your doing it with...an how you do it...usually f1's work different an should work better than the parents depending on if ther done with proper unrelated plants....if your gona inbreed you need to know wat your doing...how to do it an wat your working with....its not always easy to cary all the traits through in a line....abit easier if the line is pure...meaning breed for many many generations to give a set of traits.. plant can take inbreeding quite well....doing it properly is not so easy...but then it would also depend on what your trying to inbreed.....evrything an anything in the line as well as its decendants..good and bad an stuff you may not even see.... or are you trying to inbreed an cary something in particular.


By S4 the plants are seriously screwed up and many are functionally sterile, also poor yields, no pest and disease resistance. We made many S3 or S4 seeds for selecting parents for our single Cannabinoid breeding work but we did have the ability to restore the Vigor and delete or mask the recessive negative traits with a method used for other crops. Any single Cannabinoid say for THCV, we used 4 landrace unrelated lines, in the case of THCV, Afghan, Thai, S African Durban, and Calif Orange that all had about 1% THCV. After selfing each line separately and selecting the progeney plants with the highest THCV values which by S3 or S4 yielded plants that were 5%-7% THCV but all inbred and all but useless except for the target Cannabinoid, we combined the best of each of the 4 lines and restored the full F1 vigor found in F1 hybrids. A bit of work but it did work very well. As long as the 4 combined lines are unrelated. We ended up with a great THCV mother clone with closer to 15% THCV with little other Cannabinoids, and high yielding with great pest and disease resistance, and vigor.
All Cannabis is Heterozygous and will deteriorate as a Homozygous plant with lots of problems expressed. By selfing S4 or more you get closer to Homozygous and all the recessive problems are expressed.
-SamS

tds interesting observations this seems very likley considering most cannabis is selfed for reasons unrelated to health or vigour thanks for sharing ,,

sounds like that project was a lot of fun sam and interesting to hear how you pulled it apart and put it back together again nice job ,, if you were selecting for just one cannabinoid was that not the reason you lost so many other qualities thru the selfing generations as opposed to the selfing itself i mean you could have selected for pest resistance vigour to etc? in animals we will use inbreeding maybe even a father over a daughter two or 3 gens but this is combined with linebreeding and outcrossing within the line to keep it strong etc to keep flipping on one spot to the point of s4 does seem a fast way to end up hitting a dead end so your results do make sense to me under the criteria you were selecting for

 

[Hammerhead]

I've made sour dubb s1,s2. Lots of people grew those. No issues seen with those. I do have SDS3 project coming up. Trying to get a sdubb IBL line. I never had any plans to go beyond s4.

 

[harvestreaper]

I've made sour dubb s1,s2. Lots of people grew those. No issues seen with those. I do have SDS3 project coming up. Trying to get a sdubb IBL line. I never had any plans to go beyond s4.

sounds good what is sour dubbs genetics ?

 

[Dr. Purpur]

sounds good what is sour dubbs genetics ?

I think that is a controversial. Ive made several crosses with SD. Some of my best. I think it came out of a bag of BOGs buds, and I don't think he is even sure

 

[Raco]

Time machine LOL

15 years ago



Who said diesel?

 

[Hammerhead]

sounds good what is sour dubbs genetics ?

Its from Bog..Sour Dubble is a Unknown Diesel(ECSD) x Sour Bubble.