When you say a good plant to outcross with,, do you mean a homozygous line and you want something on the recessive side?
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The DEFINITIVE OG Kush History
- Thread starter JetLife175
- Start date
Medfinder
Chemon 91
Picked up this this clone in Beverly hills at a pre ICO paid taxes at an socal shop...
at the California registered cannabis clone nursery here is the bio on this strain from the website
East Bay OG
Purple City Genetics
Clone
East Bay OG | EBOG
Type: Sativa Hybrid
Finish: 9–10 wks
Genetics: Phenotype of OG Kush
Notes: Boasts high yields in both flower and extracts / Flavor and smell is everything you’d expect from a real OG Kush; lemon, skunk, pine, and fuel
so far ... stem rub is skunky gassy earthy
at the California registered cannabis clone nursery here is the bio on this strain from the website
East Bay OG
Purple City Genetics
Clone
East Bay OG | EBOG
Type: Sativa Hybrid
Finish: 9–10 wks
Genetics: Phenotype of OG Kush
Notes: Boasts high yields in both flower and extracts / Flavor and smell is everything you’d expect from a real OG Kush; lemon, skunk, pine, and fuel
so far ... stem rub is skunky gassy earthy
What do you think about crossing the clone only cultivars to a true breeding low flower time Male that is an f1. Not a poly hybrid. I am trying to rid my prized blue moonshine of the 25% intersex issues when crossed to bty or even cherry pie ( which has it's own problems with pollen sacks. Though they are all sterile)
Anyone can chime in please but the question is meant for Frank and jetlife. Thanks guys.
Anyone can chime in please but the question is meant for Frank and jetlife. Thanks guys.
I honestly think treating prized clones as if they are autogamous for a few generations to work out some of the lesser desired traits before introducing any new genetic material - of any kind - is the best approach. I've got a sticky some where that discusses a 7-10 year plan for the very purpose of trying to achieve a more stable single plant. This would aid in recombinations of true F1 parents, like you are suggesting.
The idea though, is you have to use your clone to create a new P1 line. Bx back to the clone once refined to restore variation. Throw those seeds in a drawer for worst case scenario, but move forward with the refined clone.
Honestly, I'll be utilizing this EXACT process with the BTY s1 seeds. Those seeds, will represent all the possible known variations that exist within OG without any outside genetic influences. That means, each plant, could potentially represent a individual valuable trait worth holding and isolating. True structure? True Terps? Odd ball indica pheno? Whatever it may be - each of these desirable plants gets selfed further and worked until that single attribute is more consistent.
It'll be fun to document what I've been discussing. I hope it changes the way some people think about what they have sitting in their seed vaults, instead of chasing the next new fad and constantly outcrossing to strike gold.
The gold is there - in the seeds already. You didn't get a bad batch of the gene pool. It just takes TIME.
That is the biggest difference between the older stuff and modern stuff. Before, seeds and genes were NOT as accessible. You got a pack of seeds, you grew that gear for 8-10 years, every year trying the best you could to improve it. If you ever got lucky enough to meet someone else who grew, you got a chance to make a hybrid and a life long friend...who together you worked that single line for another 10-15 years...
That's not happening anymore. Our current strain array shows it too.
We need to hit the brakes and stop letting corporate mentality and interests control how we approach this plant.
dank.Frank
The idea though, is you have to use your clone to create a new P1 line. Bx back to the clone once refined to restore variation. Throw those seeds in a drawer for worst case scenario, but move forward with the refined clone.
Honestly, I'll be utilizing this EXACT process with the BTY s1 seeds. Those seeds, will represent all the possible known variations that exist within OG without any outside genetic influences. That means, each plant, could potentially represent a individual valuable trait worth holding and isolating. True structure? True Terps? Odd ball indica pheno? Whatever it may be - each of these desirable plants gets selfed further and worked until that single attribute is more consistent.
It'll be fun to document what I've been discussing. I hope it changes the way some people think about what they have sitting in their seed vaults, instead of chasing the next new fad and constantly outcrossing to strike gold.
The gold is there - in the seeds already. You didn't get a bad batch of the gene pool. It just takes TIME.
That is the biggest difference between the older stuff and modern stuff. Before, seeds and genes were NOT as accessible. You got a pack of seeds, you grew that gear for 8-10 years, every year trying the best you could to improve it. If you ever got lucky enough to meet someone else who grew, you got a chance to make a hybrid and a life long friend...who together you worked that single line for another 10-15 years...
That's not happening anymore. Our current strain array shows it too.
We need to hit the brakes and stop letting corporate mentality and interests control how we approach this plant.
dank.Frank
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I know you said dank and jet,, just through this might be helpful too
This I know the answer to,, it's a classic Tom Hill answer ,,, i know the reference too,, page 167 I think (Allard 99) ,,principles of plant breeding,, anyway,, the most effective way of removing intersexed expression of a line is through selfing,, it's also the most direct and efficient route to homozygosity
There are ways to limit gene expression when growing clones,,it sorta depends on what environment you want to run stuff in and if you just want a single clone or a line,,
you will probably find,, unless you remove the trait from both lines before crossing you will only be able to rely on the intersex trait not being dominant in the 1st outcross and not expressing any latant tenancy until its incrossed ,, so if you choose different parents it might mask the issue in the first generation outcross ,, but once you incross all the crap will start showing the ability to express within the line,,
I guess it depends what your goals and target environment is,, limitations on nitrogen can easily meant he difference between balls and no balls,, the target environment is a huge factor
I'd also say BC is a good choice for trait fixing and a brilliant way to start a line,, but in the case of intersexed traits I'd self the trait out first to remove it entirely if that is a major goal ,,
I'm a big selfing fan and my preference is RBC,, reversed backcrossing,, but I'd do it after you remove the chance of fixing intersexed traits into the line
I'm a big selfing fan and my preference is RBC,, reversed backcrossing,, but I'd do it after you remove the chance of fixing intersexed traits into the line
Bingo. Well said, Rick.
In tomatoes, if you combine two recessive gene traits, they are dominant alleles in the next filial generation. The hybrid is then used to breed to other lines, where you are seeking a different recessive trait.
Example - normal leaf (d) x potato leaf (r) - F1 - all normal leaf. F2 You bred two potato leaf offspring that surfaced to make an F3 line that breds true for potato leaf. ALWAYS. FOREVER. No more regular leaves. Now you have a true dominant recessive trait to use as a breeding marker in other lines.
Red Normal Leaf (d) x Green Dominant Recessive Potato leaf (r)
So, if what you WANT is that rare trait, combined with a different color fruit, you can EASILY segregate your F2 population, without ever even seeing a tomato, because you only want the fruits with a potato leaf in the first place. You can discard 80% of the plants as they grow, because they lack the proper trait. (this is what Phylos wants to be able to accomplish by using their biomarkers - faster population segregation)
It doesn't technically matter which two parents you use in this scenario in the F1 generation either. All you want is to see the segregation to find the potato leaf plants. F2 then is when the time is spent sorting. F1 - you can actually make your first effort at selecting disease resistant plants though.
These SAME things can be applied to cannabis - IF - you spend enough time in a gene pool to REALLY learn how it behaves. That truly only comes with seeing enough of the population to make an accurate statement of what is REALLY in the line. 1 run of 2,000 or 100 runs of 20. I don't care, but that is how progress is made.
That's why universities work collectively sorting hundreds of thousands of plants for commercial crop improvements. It takes an organized effort and for the most part, we've lost sight of that in our own partition of the agricultural sector.
dank.Frank
In tomatoes, if you combine two recessive gene traits, they are dominant alleles in the next filial generation. The hybrid is then used to breed to other lines, where you are seeking a different recessive trait.
Example - normal leaf (d) x potato leaf (r) - F1 - all normal leaf. F2 You bred two potato leaf offspring that surfaced to make an F3 line that breds true for potato leaf. ALWAYS. FOREVER. No more regular leaves. Now you have a true dominant recessive trait to use as a breeding marker in other lines.
Red Normal Leaf (d) x Green Dominant Recessive Potato leaf (r)
So, if what you WANT is that rare trait, combined with a different color fruit, you can EASILY segregate your F2 population, without ever even seeing a tomato, because you only want the fruits with a potato leaf in the first place. You can discard 80% of the plants as they grow, because they lack the proper trait. (this is what Phylos wants to be able to accomplish by using their biomarkers - faster population segregation)
It doesn't technically matter which two parents you use in this scenario in the F1 generation either. All you want is to see the segregation to find the potato leaf plants. F2 then is when the time is spent sorting. F1 - you can actually make your first effort at selecting disease resistant plants though.
These SAME things can be applied to cannabis - IF - you spend enough time in a gene pool to REALLY learn how it behaves. That truly only comes with seeing enough of the population to make an accurate statement of what is REALLY in the line. 1 run of 2,000 or 100 runs of 20. I don't care, but that is how progress is made.
That's why universities work collectively sorting hundreds of thousands of plants for commercial crop improvements. It takes an organized effort and for the most part, we've lost sight of that in our own partition of the agricultural sector.
dank.Frank
Last edited:
Bingo. Well said, Rick.
In tomatoes, if you combine two recessive gene traits, they are dominant alleles in the next filial generation. The hybrid is then used to breed to other lines, where you are seeking a different recessive trait.
Example - normal leaf (d) x potato leaf (r) - F1 - all normal leaf. F2 You bred two potato leaf offspring that surfaced to make an F3 line that breds true for potato leaf. ALWAYS. FOREVER. No more regular leaves. Now you have a true dominant recessive trait to use as a breeding marker in other lines.
Red Normal Leaf (d) x Green Dominant Recessive Potato leaf (r)
So, if what you WANT is that rare trait, combined with a different color fruit, you can EASILY segregate your F2 population, without ever even seeing a tomato, because you only want the fruits with a potato leaf in the first place. You can discard 80% of the plants as they grow, because they lack the proper trait. (this is what Phylos wants to be able to accomplish by using their biomarkers - faster population segregation)
It doesn't technically matter which two parents you use in this scenario in the F1 generation either. All you want is to see the segregation to find the potato leaf plants. F2 then is when the time is spent sorting. F1 - you can actually make your first effort at selecting disease resistant plants though.
These SAME things can be applied to cannabis - IF - you spend enough time in a gene pool to REALLY learn how it behaves. That truly only comes with seeing enough of the population to make an accurate statement of what is REALLY in the line. 1 run of 2,000 or 100 runs of 20. I don't care, but that is how progress is made.
That's why universities work collectively sorting hundreds of thousands of plants for commercial crop improvements. It takes an organized effort and for the most part, we've lost sight of that in our own partition of the agricultural sector.
dank.Frank
Okay. Lot to unpack there. Great post.
So I have a question pertaining to one of my projects.
I’ve had to have run over 2,000 s1 JDOG seeds in the years since it’s been around. Very VERY familiar with the genepool and how it behaves, expresses etc....
That lemon pledge furniture polish pheno pops up maybe 1:800-1000. Proof being a cut that was mislabeled or deliberately passed off as skywalker in the early 2ks in south Los Angeles county. I’ve had only two plants with this trait over the years out of the s1 seed I’ve made. Both are not around anymore.
If I was to find this trait again I should bx that back to the JDOG, which should potentially give me more plants with that trait in the progeny of that cross? I completely understand breeding but am not very good at remembering the lingo and putting what I am trying to say into words.
One foot into the science, one foot into the stoner science till I die Hahahaha.
You would make a s2 reverse that 1 in 800 s1 that has those traits. And repeat pop 800 s2.s and see if the percentage of those traits are now 1 in 400 ore hopefully more.
But when starting material is 1 in 800 it may take few generations to lock it in.
Ore go the old skool way and outcross and start cubing to that cut.
The S2 route is how Tom would plan it,,
I believe cubing was debunked by chim years ago ,, after the second backcross it's actually detrimental to the line,, if you want to increase inbreeding coefficients the best way is selfing and then incrossing
I believe cubing was debunked by chim years ago ,, after the second backcross it's actually detrimental to the line,, if you want to increase inbreeding coefficients the best way is selfing and then incrossing
Pure breed,, homozygous lines are the goal,, it would be a good idea to select multiple s1s and splitting it into pure lines
@EnglishRick - You've obviously not read my single plant breeding strategy sticky or followed my posts over the last couple months.
But yes. Isolated familial lines for recombination later down the road. Yep.
dank.Frank
But yes. Isolated familial lines for recombination later down the road. Yep.
dank.Frank
I've never once seen herb as good as I can grow myself for sale legally. Maybe I'm unlucky?
Drewsif
Member
Legal pot is mostly rejects from mold resistance trials and corporate pheno hunts. Fairly certain legit units go out the side door/darkweb. Every notable production permit on earth is sponsored by big industry and all workers signed a NDA to grow a fuckin plant.
They won't legalize federally until the final unregulated round of wild west musical chairs/duck alignment is finished. Which means compiled sales data proving people buy random bullshit homogenized with bottled products. Quality has no place in a market dictated by idiots with money to blow one shitty gram at a time. Thats the target audience. Cig smokers, not world class chefs.
The answers on breeding from the guys last page is pure gold.
Those answers were more than useful.
Thank you to Frank, Rick, Jetlife, and Karma.
Respect.
Those answers were more than useful.
Thank you to Frank, Rick, Jetlife, and Karma.
Respect.
Happy Times
Well-known member
@EnglishRick - You've obviously not read my single plant breeding strategy sticky or followed my posts over the last couple months.
But yes. Isolated familial lines for recombination later down the road. Yep.
dank.Frank
Any chance you can post a link to that sticky?
@EnglishRick - You've obviously not read my single plant breeding strategy sticky or followed my posts over the last couple months.
But yes. Isolated familial lines for recombination later down the road. Yep.
dank.Frank
No,, but I'd love to,,, did I get anything wrong,, or have I just not read it?
