TEXAS CHURCH SHOOTING

[brown_thumb]

If you don't think the future will be good, it wont, if you do, it might.

If the mental landscape changed to where being a 'gun person' was an embarrassment of sorts rather then glamorized and made to seem cool.... it's weird how people are proud about their guns.

I don't mean to be negative about many things, but the gun 'thing' in USA, i think the rest of the civil world have one eyebrow raised because it just seems caveman.

Don't misunderstand my intent: If it were feasible to disarm everyone and this resulted in elimination of violent acts then I'd be all for it. But believing this will work is faulty logic. This problem is far deeper than that. No guns? They'll use poisons and bombs.

 

[brown_thumb]

Guns as a matter of Rights...

You do realize that the only real reason to have guns as a matter of Rights was, as outlined by the framers of the Constitution of the United States of America, for suppressing tyranny in government.

Americans are way past their due date on this point. We should have had another civil war in 1909 when the Government passed the Federal Reserve Act... Among other tyrannical actions.

Quoted for truth...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Christian terrorist...Oh wait he was white and a christian, only blacks and muslims can be called terrorists...

terrorist

noun [ C ] uk ​ /ˈter.ə.rɪst/ us ​ /ˈter.ɚ.ɪst/
​

.... someone who uses violent action, or threats of violent action, for political purposes:
Several terrorists have been killed by their own bombs.
There has been an increase in terrorist attacks.
The government has stated that it will not give in to terrorist threats.

More examples:

The hostages are being held as a bargaining chip by terrorist organizations.
The terrorist attack on the UN building has shocked the civilized world.
An unknown terrorist group has claimed responsibility for this morning's bomb attack.
It is thought that they worked in collusion with the terrorist network.
It's often said that one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.

Terrorists come in all shapes/sizes/colours.....and are not racially or religiously specific.

The Baader-Meinhof Group were part of the Red Army Faction, caucasian (white), and most certainly terrorists.

 

[brown_thumb]

Trying to pry guns from the cold hands of responsible US gun owners will most probably lead to a US civil war. A gun ban won't stop those that use guns in a bad way anyway.

There are hundreds of millions of guns out there in the US, millions of which are not registered and so illegal, and will stay illegal even if the US ever has a gun ban...That won't stop people from being shot by crazy people.

The shooter in this church obviously was mentally unstable. He was not acting in the name of some political/religious ideology, he was an atheist nut-job (not all atheists are nut-jobs)....

Just one correction: There is no US Federal Law regarding firearm registration. Frankly, I don't want one because it's no one's business if I own a firearm as long as I'm a responsible citizen. AND... only responsible citizens will register their guns should it become Federal Law. Criminals will not register their guns.

Furthermore, if societies continue to decline into anarchy then Martial Law will be initiated. Guess whose self-protection they'll take. That's right... those from responsible good people. The lunatics will retain theirs. Yeah... that's a good idea.

 

[brown_thumb]

Really?....well ya learn something every day.

Where in the US is registration of a firearm not required?

Almost everywhere. Only places like crime-ridden Chicago require it and make purchasing firearms difficult. So much for strict gun laws lowering crime rates...

 

[brown_thumb]

Not trying to go off-topic but I think this is relevant (cut/paste URL)...

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/150227

 

[moose eater]

Just one correction: There is no US Federal Law regarding firearm registration.

Yes, actually there is.

The references to 'federal firearms registration/licensing' refers to class III weapons (full-auto, select-fire, and others such as AOWs) and destructive devices. All are registered federally. And if you check the list from the previous page, Alaska is number one in this type of registration, meaning more class III's and DD's than any other state.

31 states permit such weapons, and all are required by the 1968 NFA and others, to be registered with the feds.

-Very- few legally registered class III weapons have been used in commission of crimes, btw.

 

[brown_thumb]

Yes, actually there is.

The references to 'federal firearms registration/licensing' refers to class III weapons (full-auto, select-fire, and others such as AOWs) and destructive devices. All are registered federally. And if you check the list from the previous page, Alaska is number one in this type of registration, meaning more class III's and DD's than any other state.

31 states permit such weapons, and all are required by the 1968 NFA and others, to be registered with the feds.

-Very- few legally registered class III weapons have been used in commission of crimes, btw.

Yes, that's correct. However, there is no registration requirement for typical firearms and accessories which are far and away more common. Essentially, anyone who can legally purchase a gun from a FFL dealer can own a full-auto firearm, sound suppressor, etc. provided they pay the US$200 tax stamp...

...the BATFE is a division of the IRS. That, my friends, is mostly about money.

 

[trichrider]

Christian terrorist...Oh wait he was white and a christian, only blacks and muslims can be called terrorists...

1. he was atheist.
2. terrorism has no prerequisites of religion or color.
3. he targeted christians

try your mind games elsewhere

 

[CaptainDankness]

Hello geneva sativa and Mj Passion, I am 53 years old and since more than 40 years, I am interested of the Nazi-Theme, but that Hitler collected the weapons of the Germans, I never heard about?

On the other Hand my friends, Hitler and german bashing, is a little bit out of Topic. What has the german history to do, a village in Texas? A Little bit helpless try amigos.

Sorry to say, but the USA are a joke today, a bitter joke.

Stalin and Mao took the guns and they killed a lot more people than Hitler.

Plus the worst domestic terrorist attack in US history was done with fertilizer, the Oklahoma City bombing.

Not to mention a citizen with a shotgun killed the Texas shooter, more people could have been killed had the armed citizen not shot the shooter.

 

[CaptainDankness]

Just one correction: There is no US Federal Law regarding firearm registration. Frankly, I don't want one because it's no one's business if I own a firearm as long as I'm a responsible citizen. AND... only responsible citizens will register their guns should it become Federal Law. Criminals will not register their guns.

Furthermore, if societies continue to decline into anarchy then Martial Law will be initiated. Guess whose self-protection they'll take. That's right... those from responsible good people. The lunatics will retain theirs. Yeah... that's a good idea.

Sure you don't have to register your guns but unless you buy it second hand the ATF has you on file as the owner of the gun. That's why there is a black market for criminals looking to murder people they toss the gun right after. Try that with a legally purchased gun the ATF knows everything about you.

Nothing will change from a registration just more taxes.

 

[brown_thumb]

Stalin and Mao took the guns and they killed a lot more people than Hitler.

Plus the worst domestic terrorist attack in US history was done with fertilizer, the Oklahoma City bombing.

Not to mention a citizen with a shotgun killed the Texas shooter, more people could have been killed had the armed citizen not shot the shooter.

To my knowledge, it isn't yet proven that the bystander with a rifle actually killed the suspect but he did shoot him. At the very least, the killer was slowed down and chased by the same citizen. This may have saved many lives. IMO, the guy who did that to the killer is a hero... GUN AND ALL. Given the fact that the killer began driving erratically, he probably knew he would die or be caught, so even if the final death was by his own hand, the bystander stopped that crazy son-of-a-bitch. BRAVO and THANK YOU, SIR!!!

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

This is what IS known....

(1) a LEGAL gun owner engaged the shooter with his own gun, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and try to escape by car. The shooter was chased and ultimately crashed his car. He was later found to have shot himself like the coward he was.

(2) He was also known to have had mental issues, was discharged from the military for committing assault on his wife and child.

(3)He had been sending threatening messages to his ex mother-in-law, who was known to attend that church on occasion. Other than that, I don't think anything else is definitely known. Like, say, if the shooters guns were purchased ILLEGALLY or not. Just like the bomb, knife, and car attacks in the UK, Paris, or Belgium could not have been prevented, neither could new gun laws past, present, or future have prevented this tragedy.

 

[brown_thumb]

This is what IS known....

(1) a LEGAL gun owner engaged the shooter with his own gun, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and try to escape by car. The shooter was chased and ultimately crashed his car. He was later found to have shot himself like the coward he was.

(2) He was also known to have had mental issues, was discharged from the military for committing assault on his wife and child.

(3)He had been sending threatening messages to his ex mother-in-law, who was known to attend that church on occasion. Other than that, I don't think anything else is definitely known. Like, say, if the shooters guns were purchased ILLEGALLY or not. Just like the bomb, knife, and car attacks in the UK, Paris, or Belgium could not have been prevented, neither could new gun laws past, present, or future have prevented this tragedy.

Quoted for truth and logic.

 

[moose eater]

This is what IS known....

(1) a LEGAL gun owner engaged the shooter with his own gun, causing the shooter to drop his rifle and try to escape by car. The shooter was chased and ultimately crashed his car. He was later found to have shot himself like the coward he was.

(2) He was also known to have had mental issues, was discharged from the military for committing assault on his wife and child.

(3)He had been sending threatening messages to his ex mother-in-law, who was known to attend that church on occasion. Other than that, I don't think anything else is definitely known. Like, say, if the shooters guns were purchased ILLEGALLY or not. Just like the bomb, knife, and car attacks in the UK, Paris, or Belgium could not have been prevented, neither could new gun laws past, present, or future have prevented this tragedy.

The reports I read further stated he was -not- dishonorably discharged, but rather something along the lines of conduct unbecoming, or something like that, stating he was thereby technically legally permitted to purchase firearms, though I also thought that persons who committed a domestic violence assault and were convicted were forbidden from purchasing firearms by federal and (many) state laws.

The whole clinging to the 2nd Amendment thing does make me chuckle, though.

If any authority becomes a burden to the point they need to be disciplined via use of firearms, does anyone really think that entity will simply say, "Well, ok, I guess you have a right."

In many circumstances involving armed revolt and lacking immediately available armaments, throughout history, those who believed the revolt was necessary acquired the necessary arms.. typically from their perceived or real oppressors.

The Jews of Warsaw (where Hitler -had- taken firearms away), Mujahedeen (preceding State Dept/CIA intervention via the drugs-for-weapons trade over the Khyber Pass) using crude but effective means to take down Soviet hardware and gun-ships to strip them of armaments, The Sons of Liberty raiding the King's armories and taking everything from muskets, to black powder, to cannons.

When push comes to shove, no tyrant is going to grant permission for use of items necessary to remove that tyrant. But those in need will find those means if they are determined to do so.

In that regard, it reminds me of the System's absurdity in belief that a restraining order will prevent a murdering spouse from assaulting or murdering the other partner because they're waving a TRO in front of them. A dangerously false sense of security at best.

And as stated before, the U.S. and it's citizens have tolerated the rolling out of tyrannical law after tyrannical law, and Bubba and his other brother Bubba, while being proud, dues-paying members of the NRA, have hardly whispered anything about this neo-fascism.

The exception to this was Gun Owners of America, who was right there along-side us in opposition to the passage and implementation of the USA PA's extra-legal BS; the NRA was more milquetoast and even supportive when it came to assaults on liberty that exemplify the very reason for the 2nd amendment's presence in the Bill of Rights.

It's been many years since I stroked any firearms like an inflatable sex toy, and I've had more than my share of guns.. They have their place. They've fed my family, protected me, and given those who might've decided to do (what ever) to think hard about the cost.

But as someone pointed out this morning, violence comes from the heart and mind, and our history is one of often solving problems, wants, and needs with force. Despite our view of ourselves, we are a violent culture. That's THE trigger, in my opinion.

Our kids play Call of Duty and other games that normalize killing, often up close and personal. There's something really wrong with that, in my opinion.

Killing may be necessary at different times; feeding one's self and/or family, defense, etc., but glorification of such things is a sign of psychological and/or systemic illness, in my own opinion.

But our negation of our words with our actions isn't new. The television regularly sports ads by gov. telling us to "feed the pig," telling us to control our spending and take responsibility for our futures... while they spend us into debt by the trillions. Likewise with their messages about being peaceful.

When we address our divisions, our hypocrisy, the disconnect between our stated values and our actions, and our apparently-situational grasp on the significance of ALL life, then maybe our Country will cease being the place it's been in these regards.

Until then, I expect little more than more of the same.

 

[pinkus]

Damn glad I didn't move to New Braunfels like I almost did.

 

[Vash]

Pastor and wife of church. Parents of little girl who was one of the alleged victims. No tears, no emotion, and you've lost a daughter. GTFOH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykMhryr7Tlw


Here's another one. NO tears. PLUS, a little kid hit FIVE times with an automatic weapon - and LIVES!!

Another staged event, people. Yeah, I said it. Vintage Vash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMiJXPDcoNI

Last, but not least....she lost EIGHT members of her family. NO tears. Where do you get these emotionless people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6FQk3cszGk

 

[MJPassion]

Plus the worst domestic terrorist attack in US history was done with fertilizer, the Oklahoma City bombing.

DAMN!!!

Did we forget about the Sept 11 attacks already or have you been sleeping the last 15 years?

& Oaklahoma was an inside job as well.
The official story doesn't match forensic evidence #1.

 

[moose eater]

Pastor and wife of church. Parents of little girl who was one of the alleged victims. No tears, no emotion, and you've lost a daughter. GTFOH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykMhryr7Tlw


Here's another one. NO tears. PLUS, a little kid hit FIVE times with an automatic weapon - and LIVES!!

Another staged event, people. Yeah, I said it. Vintage Vash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMiJXPDcoNI

I don't know these people, but I -can- tell you from experience that there are losses wherein all internal systems seemingly go numb. There are times tears may not come for years. Been there in both experiences. Maybe six months, maybe six years, then out of the blue, the water-works finally turn on, sometimes with no warning.

And if you look at shootings around the nation, there are many where folks absorb a surprising number of bullets, missing vital mass, and live.

Prince William Sound, out in the Islands, 20-some years back. Two drunks (one of them with a peculiar past that included repeated 'justified use of force in defense of life,' as though he sought out such situations) had their own private gun battle, each hitting the other repeatedly; one less than 20 times, and the other slightly more than 20s times, and neither died. They were medi-vacced, and lived

Both were shooting 9mm (another rd. with relatively good penetration, especially with 115 grain ball, but typically lacking in immediate knock-down power, unless striking vital mass or causing dismemberment; somewhat similar to the .223 in that regard).

Discounting others experiences during losses and hardship is a huge sin in my book. When I came back to school after my father died in '68, and the teacher invited me to explain my extended absence to the class if I chose to, instead of her doing so for me (respecting my boundaries), a neighbor, the daughter of a Baptist minister, blurted out, "No he didn't!! I saw his car in your driveway last week-end.!!"

It took two good friends to talk me out of a stall in the restroom. 2 weeks of trying to regain myself was blown to shit in seconds by someone who had a difficult time accepting that sometimes, even if there's a God, horrible things still happen.

Please be cautious when addressing others losses. You'd want the same.

 

[Vash]

DAMN!!!

Did we forget about the Sept 11 attacks already or have you been sleeping the last 15 years?

& Oaklahoma was an inside job as well.
The official story doesn't match forensic evidence #1.

Nailed it. Couldn't give you rep, but I'll get back to you with that...lol