TERROR IN NEW YORK!

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Not all Muslims believe is the same sort of Islam, there are many interpretations of the koran and many different branches and schools in Islam. The best known split, into Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, and Kharijites, was mainly political at first, but eventually acquired theological and juridical dimensions. There are three traditional types of schools in Islam: schools of jurisprudence, Sufi orders and schools of theology. There are also major denominations and movements that have arisen in the modern era. So not every mosque or place of worship is the same....and the interpretations of the koran can be widely different.


1. Sunni Islam
2. Shia Islam
3. Major sub-denominations
4. Ghulāt
5. Kharijite Islam
6. Sufi orders
7. Schools of jurisprudence
8. Sunni
9. Shia
10. Ibadi
11. Schools of Islamic theology
12. Kalām
13. Ash'ari
14. Maturidi
15. Traditionalist Theology
16. Murji'ah
17. Qadariyyah
18. Mu'tazili
19. Jahmiyyah
20. Bāṭeniyyah
21. Later branches
22. African-American movements
23. Ahmadiyya movement
24. Gülen / Hizmet movement
25. Islamism
26. Muslim Brotherhood
27. Jamaat-e-Islami
28. Liberal Muslims
29. Mahdavia
30. Non-denominational Islam
31. Tolu-e-Islam
32. Quranism
33. Salafism and Wahhabism
34. Ahl-i Hadith
35. Salafi movement
36. Islamic Modernism
37. Wahhabism

 

[Weird]

I have two very close Muslim friends one is conservative and one is very religious. My one Jewish friend is Hasidim, while others are Sephardic orthodox while others are conservative or non believers.

I mention them in particular because to most people these religious cultures come off to outsiders as xenophobic but yet here I am, a anomaly who understands them well enough to cross that divide and get a completely different experience. That common denominator is pot and reverence for culture and religion and because they are primordial Buddhism and are one of the many varied steps we can take on our way to coming to understand the true potential of humanity. I am not threatened by diversity in belief, they all lead to the same destinations something I could discuss in the minutia for days on end but I am not trying to make a hard sell just change the paradigm of perception because we have a choice it makes it difficult and because we are driven by emotion we can be sabotaged unless so it is not an intuitive process but that doesn't mean counter intuitive is counter productive

counter intuitive means having the courage to go against ingrained fears that marginalize others even if it is in honest fear and even justified of self preservation

it is not an easy road to see but it is most certainly there in front of you

 

[Weird]

there are a billion Muslims how do you separate the wheat from the chaff?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

So you based your opinion on radical people you met in prison ? i already hear it as a problem, you did not talk to the right people.

You said you read the koran and all the hadith ? but did you well understand them ? koran has to be explained by someone, you cant read it like a novel and read it literally. you dont read koran and hadith like that and say "i have read them all i have all undersatnd" same thing apply for the bible the talmud or any religious/phylosophical book.

Again i advise you to meet the good people with an open heart. sorry to inform you you did not undestand Islam.

Well the Muslims behind bars with me were Wahhabi muslims.

Actually Weird there are over 1.6 billion muslims currently Weird.
Here are some totals of the major groups.

Sunni: 1.2 billion largest popular sect in the world.
Shia: 154 million
Ibadi : 1.45 million
Ahmadiyya:10 million

'Wahhabism'

The Wahhabi movement was created by Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab in the Arabian peninsula, and was instrumental in the rise of the House of Saud to power. The terms Wahhabism and Salafism are often used interchangeably, although the word Wahhabi is specific for followers of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab. Wahhabism has been accused of being "a source of global terrorism and causing disunity in Muslim communities, and criticized for destruction of historic sites by its followers...

Yes I did have much guidance from them, since we were locked up together, they were keen to teach me and would answer all of my questions since their English was fairly good. Much of it I found hard to understand, but with the help of one of the teachers he tried and usually succeeded in getting me to comprehend what he was teaching me from the books they had to share.....

So who would be the 'Good People' muslims Gizmo?

 

[Gry]

Wahhabi are Saudi.
We have gone after that oil that sits under them for a fucking hundred years.
The largest pool of capital on earth.
Wonder what kind of subterfuge that might bring out ?

 

[Bud Green]

there are a billion Muslims how do you separate the wheat from the chaff?

That indeed is the big problem.. And it is a very serious problem that begs a solution...

It also seems that the "wheat" that we are discussing in this thread has a larger proportion of "chaff" than some of our other problems, and this "chaff" is not only worthless trash, but extremely poisonous also...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

All I am doing is recounting my experiences,
with islam, although quite limited I must say,
so I am no sage on all of islam, just what I was taught about it in a few months of being guided by Wahhabi muslims....

I'm happy for people to make up their own minds and study for themselves....It is an enormously complicated religion....so I am still learning,
even today...

*as for the radicalized islamist that perpetrated the recent atrocity in NY, there is nothing in the news to tell us from what area of islam his teachings come from, well if there is I can't seem to find it.

 

[trichrider]

this isn't about Muslims but Islam if you read gypsy's post even he was clear about it

if you can't discriminate between the two and use contrived absurdist logic to straw man my logic it only shows how unreasonably biased you are and how wrong it is to stereotype based on any label

how about critical discourse rooted in logic and not some separatist mantra

there are Muslims on the nypd should I grab their gun and put them under citizens arrest because they are brown and religious?

healthy people find commonality based on humanity regardless of belief and you can use those very religions as an excuse to marginalize others just as you can use a fear or misunderstanding of religions to stereotype a millions if not billions of people

It is very easy to just hate and marginalize others out of fear for self preservation that is why it is used to control populaces

This thread being a perfect example of people being ruled by irrational emotion and not real data or face to face experience

Some of the most beautiful and loving people I have ever met in my life were the very stereotypes p[people condemn, of every color, race and walk of life. You would never know if you only show them a face of hate.

if one is using religion or belief to maim and murder it is not an irrational emotion to marginalize and stereotype.

the religion of islam has one goal, conquest.

you're so into diversity, but condemn a person because they don't have the same opinion. my father warned me there would "be all kinds" and you've proven him correct.

and it's sad you've done the same thing with TRUMP (MAGA!) that you are accusing me of. previously i had admired and respected your intellect, but now i'm wondering why.

incidentally weird, i have loved and have been friends with many people of color, so i don't know where you get off. i could make some suggestions....

 

[Weird]

That indeed is the big problem.. And it is a very serious problem that begs a solution...

It also seems that the "wheat" that we are discussing in this thread has a larger proportion of "chaff" than some of our other problems, and this "chaff" is not only worthless trash, but extremely poisonous also...

any extremism can be poisonous and anyone can potential be pushed to extremism

there isn't an extremist gene that can be culled from the gene pool nor can you cull belief

what is driving people to be extreme is more than a belief but a set and setting aspect that makes that belief a viable solution to a perceived problem

the real dynamics have to do with resources and the lack thereof, which is driven by and facilitated by governments

it is not a simple problem but it is not impossible to understand or effect

 

[Weird]

if one is using religion or belief to maim and murder it is not an irrational emotion to marginalize and stereotype.

the religion of islam has one goal, conquest.

you're so into diversity, but condemn a person because they don't have the same opinion. my father warned me there would "be all kinds" and you've proven him correct.

and it's sad you've done the same thing with TRUMP (MAGA!) that you are accusing me of. previously i had admired and respected your intellect, but now i'm wondering why.

incidentally weird, i have loved and have been friends with many people of color, so i don't know where you get off. i could make some suggestions....

or I simply have too much intellectual integrity to label the whole of a people based on the actions of a few

how many religious Muslims have you discussed religion broke bread or smoked with that you base your opinion om?

how many are in NYC the place the attacks took place?

what do different Muslims look like?

in the end the only thing that separates a Muslim from an Muslim extremist is the extremism especially if their mantra is to pretend to be conservative?

but like I said anyone can be an extremist, even those who hate Islamic terrorism simply because terrorism is evil

if it where really that simple

hitler did such a great job of demonizing the jews they exterminated millions of them and made stuff from their bones

that seems the direction you guys would like to take it in, but hey you guys are so enlightened about 1.3 billion Muslims based on a few simple feelings and beliefs you have to have some intellectual/humanitarian integrity to back that up by right?

I will leave mention of cowardice out of the equation but I can't imagine what else could drive people to think in such polar and totalitarian terms but since I don't think that way maybe you can find the words to teach my why I should

 

[Weird]

if you just google racial tension in america every result resolves in a measurable uptick since trump was nominated

some sources have hard data some report trends

our hate is being orchestrated here, I would imagine the same is happening on the "opposing" side

the lives lost in conflict will be ours not the lives of those who are orchestrating it

ironic isn't it

https://www.google.com/search?q=racial+tension+2017&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Weird]

let's let other people stir us up and cause us to fight each other on their behalf

no thanks

 

[Weird]

one last thing, the thing that makes extremists so dangerous is they are so attached to their belief they don't see things from other perspectives

our world and our society has many dimensions and thus to really understand the world and human nature you need to understand the perceptions of those that make up apart of your world

to put anything so complex in a tiny box as small as a word and label a people with it will never bring resolve to any of this

ever

we any of us that closed minded when we encountered pot? or was it being open to a different perception the catalyst there?

 

[Mr. Lovebuzzed]

too complicated discussion. there is only one truth, whatever religion, that truth is LOVE. can we see love in those religions? i see cults of the death. no life, maybe life after death and where is woman in those religions? I cant love without woman. but not slave woman! not! i need free woman, as LOVE is FREE. stay lovebuzzed people.

 

[stoned-trout]

I hate cyclists too...Think they own the road here...Yeehaw..Got nothing against joggers/ runners

 

[MJPassion]

Where's the muslim representation in this thread?
I'm pretty sure this thread would get shut down with a quickness with such.

I see some folks are capable of discussion absent emotion but most can't keep themselves from hanging their asses out.


I'm honestly more interested in the facts behind the incident in NYC than the religious talk... But the talk is interesting.

Any updates that have been missed amongst the discussion?
This is the first I've heard of the incident.

 

[Weird]

too complicated discussion. there is only one truth, whatever religion, that truth is LOVE. can we see love in those religions? i see cults of the death. no life, maybe life after death and where is woman in those religions? I cant love without woman. but not slave woman! not! i need free woman, as LOVE is FREE. stay lovebuzzed people.

I dig this post but it begs the question

is all you've seen only what you have been shown?

even if terrorists killed 50k people it only represents a small percentage of the people involved on both sides to the point of lottery odds

so if this is a small percentage of strife, what is the other percentage, fear and loathing? or is there something more?

see I think the place where you see a cult of evil has love as well or it would be far darker and more aggressive like the slums in the Americas

it always seems to be concentrated where there is extreme poverty even in USA cities, cults of evil that is

 

[geneva_sativa]

if you just google racial tension in america every result resolves in a measurable uptick since trump was nominated

some sources have hard data some report trends

our hate is being orchestrated here, I would imagine the same is happening on the "opposing" side

the lives lost in conflict will be ours not the lives of those who are orchestrating it

ironic isn't it

https://www.google.com/search?q=racial+tension+2017&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Would be nice if that sacrificial goat would solve all your pesky problems though, huh ?

So there would be no Dylan Roofs if Obama was still in office ?

or maybe you hadn't heard of the various people caught spray painting racial slurs after Trumps election, that were not even remotely white ?

or hows about Richard Spencer ?

before leading "white nationalist" marches, he was ardent Obama supporter . . .

but yeah, keep trying to pin it on one guy. . . much easier than recognizing that there is a much larger concerted effort to divide and conqeuor

 

[MJPassion]

I almost forgot...
The saying is that "Money is the root to all evil" but I disagree...

Religion (unchangeable indoctrination) is the root!

 

[Weird]

Where's the muslim representation in this thread?

I see some folks are capable of discussion absent emotion but most can't keep themselves from hanging their asses out.


I'm honestly more interested in the facts behind the incident in NYC than the religious talk... But the talk is interesting.

Any updates that have been missed amongst the discussion?
This is the first I've heard of the incident.

lone wolf islamic terrorist who has been in country some time

not organized terrorism but a frustrated person who bought into the ideal that we are the enemy

no idea where they got that from people are so nice to muslims since trump was nominated

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ump_happened_racism_against_barack_obama.html