Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory

[Team Microbe]

I already subscibed this 3d .. but let me say ...Very nice pic !

Thanks CT!

CC already pointed out how wrong the guy is about this subject three years ago.

Mhmm

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Not that, it's the redundancy that's been carried in this thread ever since LLB sent her crew over here to "do work"
...

For example, let's take the nit picking in both of the lava rock threads I've posted. We both know (or at least I and many others do) that the porosity and structure of lava provides an ideal habitat for microbes to harbor inside of... yet you continue to press on and say you have no evidence of this being true.

Once again , it's always someone else, isn't it? When I first got into your threads you were blaming me for getting LLB fired up. Now she's responsible when others make comments you'd rather not deal with.

In another thread of yours I was involved in, the disagreement about "lava rock" was when you stated that perlite hasn't the pore space to support micro life. When you make statements about the world which aren't factual, you can expect to get called on it. That's just the way it is here, for everyone, not just you. How these disagreements are sorted out is what sets the tone of a thread. It can be a positive thing or it can be negative.

This isn't sacred space. Good luck expecting people to read your threads and not comment on factual errors for fear of deflating the groovy atmosphere here. Yeah those nit pickers just get too hung up on facts. Pesky things those facts are.

I didn't log on here today to cause trouble. And I wasn't sent here by LLB. I came into this thread today hoping to learn something that I could apply towards my grow op. But if there's a need to speak up then I and others will speak up.

 

[Team Microbe]

Once again , it's always someone else, isn't it? When I first got into your threads you were blaming me for getting LLB fired up. Now she's responsible when others make comments you'd rather not deal with.

In another thread of yours I was involved in, the disagreement about "lava rock" was when you stated that perlite hasn't the pore space to support micro life. When you make statements about the world which aren't factual, you can expect to get called on it. That's just the way it is here, for everyone, not just you. How these disagreements are sorted out is what sets the tone of a thread. It can be a positive thing or it can be negative.

This isn't sacred space. Good luck expecting people to read your threads and not comment on factual errors for fear of deflating the groovy atmosphere here. Yeah those nit pickers just get too hung up on facts. Pesky things those facts are.

I didn't log on here today to cause trouble. And I wasn't sent here by LLB. I came into this thread today hoping to learn something that I could apply towards my grow op. But if there's a need to speak up then I and others will speak up.

Well no, she actually told me she sent her cyber buddies over here to troll in my thread after I had her banned indefinitely. She didn't specify who but it's pretty apparent who it is lol. I feel like we're back in the organic forum again... where trolling is the way of life and dicks are measured upon entry. Which reminds me, where's Mikell?!

Nah but all kidding aside... let's stay on track here fellas. We can agree to disagree for now, I suppose that'll just have to do

 

[Team Microbe]

There he is! Good to hear from ya, I was worried you may have left

 

[Team Microbe]

Cheese Candy reaching stage 3 of plant health! Lipids like woahhh


Well last night was Foliar Friday, which is probably my favorite day of the week. I mixed up (per gallon of spray) -

1 tbsp Neem Oil
5 ml Agsil16H
1/4 tsp aloe vera 200x powder
1 tsp essential oil blend

I love that shine from the neem the day afterwards

Crimson Clover popping up

I don't like to top my plants that much, I don't believe in causing stress for unnecessary reasons. The only plants I'll top are my mother plants, because I never intend on flowering them out. Anything I flower will see the least amount of stress possible until harvest. I've found that this really lets the plant grow to it's true potential. I've found bending them over and encouraging lateral growth with things like coconut water or corn SST is effective since they contain such high levels of cytokinins.

Some fresh castings from the top of the worm bin, they're loving the amended compost it looks like


Is anyone else vermicomposting? Let's see your EWC shots!

 

[EclipseFour20]

TM--if you research with an open mind: silica, siliconization, and Plant Available Silica (PAS) you will discover that "potassium silicate" is not the most efficient Si input available (synthetic or organic). And of the organic alternatives...many are superior in providing PAS in short duration of time as well as providing a respectable amount residual Si (left over and available for the next growing season)...but hey, who am I to rain on your parade.

BTW, if you look back, each of my "suggestions", posts, and/or comments in your thread--they were factual, "constructive", not negative nor "intolerant"--but they did get you "thinking". It was not "my way or the highway", it was "hey I learned this and check this out"--all with the intent of helping others do "better"--(pumice vs volcanic rock, Perched Water Table vs bottom layering the container with wicking medium (like bark), inefficient synthetic Si vs efficient organic PAS). That has/is/will be my intention...helping others do better by "questioning authority"--especially when the authority seems to make no sense. IMHO, it makes no sense to drop "the organics" and go with "synthetics" that is both inferior and a benign "salt" product.

It is just a crying shame that you can not label your product as 100% organic...especially after all that effort. Just saying.

BTW...if you believe that I was sent here to "trash your thread", then you must believe in unicorns too; offering suggestions and asking "why" is not trashing...its called "conversation". Who is this LLB that supposedly sent me here to be a "cyberbully"...lol. Yep, if I am a "cyberbully", then methinks someone must believe in unicorns!

One last point TM: There are many types of people in this world--few are innovators (those that question authority) and some/most are sheeple (those that follow/obey blindly without question). You see, I am not a cranky old guy, rather I ask questions. If someone told me "it was OK to use Potassium Silicate for soil nutrition for organic gardens", instead of saying "OK" (sheeple)--I ask "why?". The logic/conclusions of a single person are seldom 100% correct; hell a broken clock is correct twice a day.

You see, I always viewed ROLS philosophy to be "organics on steroids"...as if it was a wannabe miniscule offshoot from BioDynamics--save all the crazy planetary-mysticism bullshit. I guess I was wrong....it appears AgSil and Potassium Silicate is used for soil fertility by many ROLS growers--which is fine with me, I am a big advocate of incorporating the best practices from both synthetic and organic growing disciplines.

 

[ghostmade]

^^^bamboo for si

 

[CimeTempestose]

TM I have a question about the crimson clover in your pics.. how do U manage them ?.. I know that they go till 80 cm heigth... do U cut them periodically or what ?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Well no, she actually told me she sent her cyber buddies over here to troll in my thread after I had her banned indefinitely. She didn't specify who but it's pretty apparent who it is lol. I feel like we're back in the organic forum again... where trolling is the way of life and dicks are measured upon entry. Which reminds me, where's Mikell?!

Nah but all kidding aside... let's stay on track here fellas. We can agree to disagree for now, I suppose that'll just have to do

This reminds me of a story I was told;
During the social turmoil of the sixties there was a particular police chief (Chicago?) who was an especially notorious bastard. A counterculture leader put the word out that there was a reward for whomever could slip a large dose of LSD into this bastard. Nobody made the attempt, but the chief was always wondering. This guy wasn't known for self introspection, but now he was closely watching himself, and anytime he began to feel a little bit different it set off alarm bells in his mind. He was always afraid and wondering if this time somebody had actually succeeded in doing the deed. Eventually he went nuts. And that had been the point of the whole affair.

A statement by Ladyluckybean (former guest) doesn't change the intentions of those who had been posting in your threads all along, or even those of new posters.

I see EclipseFour20's posts as touching on the difference between organic growing as an ideology, and simply using organic methods as another tool in the grower's toolbox. And that has often been the basis of many misunderstandings.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

TM I have a question about the crimson clover in your pics.. how do U manage them ?.. I know that they go till 80 cm heigth... do U cut them periodically or what ?

I was wondering the same thing about another thread. Bobblehead is growing organic in no till beds using Mammoth Red Clover as companions. He says they stay short, but the product description says they grow 2'-3' tall. I too am curious about this since I just planted a clover seed mix in my tubs in prep for the canna plants.

I've been wondering; with legume nitrogen fixation, is nitrogen added to the soil while the plants are still alive, or is the nitrogen only accumulating in the plants and only enters the soil when the plants are turned under as green manure?

What are the ideal attributes of a companion plant?

 

[CimeTempestose]

Minor nitrogen is available during growth, the majority comes 3 to 4 weeks after mowing to my understanding.

For that inner dork most of us cherish.

Hi Mikell, sorry but my english is not so pro.. could U pls explain it better ? .. Because I know that the most of these kind of plants fix the nitrogen in the soil.. and they are used in agricolture in every place where there are also cows that as we all know eat the grass.. so the employ of the crimson help the soil to stay healty .. This is why I do not understand the sense to give low nitrogen rate to take down the crimson clover that are tall by their nature.. would not be better employ other varieties of crimson.. as the subterranean crimson ?

I am no one.. just want to learn how to grow with living soil

 

[Mikell]

Explain more? Jaysus, that's a good way to see how light my knowledge is with something hah.

Legumes (clover being one) fix nitrogen within root nodules, and while these nodules die off and are replaced during the season, almost all fixed nitrogen is directed at plant growth. As a companion plant/cover crop, very little nitrogen is released into the soil until after mowing, when roots/shoots have decomposed. Under ideal conditions this takes 3 to 4 weeks. As with mycorrhizal fungi showing poor root association and growth in the presence of mild phosphorous levels, the same goes for legumes and nitrogen.

This is a far better rundown than I can give.

I'm not entirely sure what your last question refers to, but it is preferable to have diversity.

 

[CimeTempestose]

I just havent understoud why employ crimson clover that should be tall plants.. while there are other kinds of crimson that dont grow so high .. infact my original question to TM was how he manage the crimson clover that can reach 50 cm heigth

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

"Crimson" refers to the strong reddish color of the clover.

The shortest clover variety I could find is Dutch White Clover which is supposed top out at 10".

http://www.groworganic.com/dutch-white-clover-rhizocoated-lb.html

Maybe the sixty day flowering time of cannabis is too short for taller clovers to get out of hand?

But it appears we are using clover as a companion plant because of the mistaken notion that nitrogen fixation is loading the soil around the plant with usable nitrogen, when the nitrogen is fixed within the membrane of the root nodules and is taken up by the plant without directly enriching the soil. Now mowing your clovers and mulching the leaves for the worms to process should work in a no-till bed. Many clovers put down deep roots. Is that a plus?

But if you're using companion plants to enhance the root surface mircro-life in your grow, maybe clover isn't the best. Clover is a legume that favors nodules full of nitrogen fixing bacteria. But if cannabis doesn't grow root nodules then what's the point? Would other plants favor bacteria more beneficial to cannabis?

A companion plant should be resistant to fusarium species which infect cannabis. But what other attributes make a good companion plant? Short growth habits? Should it be an understory plant? Wide ranging root growth? How much does it matter if you have short plants that grow en mass but then flower and fill your soil with seeds?

 

[Granger2]

If legumes are producing nodules in a container or garden with Cannabis, the Cannabis will get a share. If you're cutting the legumes down [controlling height] and putting the clippings on the soil surface for the worms and decomposition, the soil will be enriched with N. In no till this will be feeding the soil.

I'll be using Barley [not a legume] so I can control N better during bloom. Good luck. -granger

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I like the bamboo notion if its moderately relative in region to the dominant gene of the strain being worked which gets more difficult with hybrids. I especially like it if we could test it before decay and gussy it up with trichoderma, but alas I covet the loess. I've even considered glass (((sigh))). Quartz might be my obsession (((double sigh))), sighs matters... Silica sand light broadcast, I don't care how slow everyone thinks it is. The codex DE is fun, but I ponder salt-water derived which requires a saline regulator, uh oh! NEVER MIND! I swear I did not just say salt!!!

 

[Mikell]

I just havent understoud why employ crimson clover that should be tall plants.. while there are other kinds of crimson that dont grow so high .. infact my original question to TM was how he manage the crimson clover that can reach 50 cm heigth

Ahh. Makes sense. Made sense before in retrospect, just wasn't putting the Legos together.

Eh, you could periodically reseed and mow I suppose. Wee little push mower would do the trick. Tried it a few times before going with the inert mulch, but I'm inherently lazy.

There's always micro clover. Seeds probably stupid expensive comparatively speaking.

The whole practice seems more suited for no till beds. It is more winter cover crop than anything and would be better for fallow containers or beds. Fallow. Somewhere a farmer just rolled over in his grave...

 

[Team Microbe]

"Crimson" refers to the strong reddish color of the clover.

The shortest clover variety I could find is Dutch White Clover which is supposed top out at 10".

http://www.groworganic.com/dutch-white-clover-rhizocoated-lb.html

Maybe the sixty day flowering time of cannabis is too short for taller clovers to get out of hand?

But it appears we are using clover as a companion plant because of the mistaken notion that nitrogen fixation is loading the soil around the plant with usable nitrogen, when the nitrogen is fixed within the membrane of the root nodules and is taken up by the plant without directly enriching the soil. Now mowing your clovers and mulching the leaves for the worms to process should work in a no-till bed. Many clovers put down deep roots. Is that a plus?

But if you're using companion plants to enhance the root surface mircro-life in your grow, maybe clover isn't the best. Clover is a legume that favors nodules full of nitrogen fixing bacteria. But if cannabis doesn't grow root nodules then what's the point? Would other plants favor bacteria more beneficial to cannabis?

A companion plant should be resistant to fusarium species which infect cannabis. But what other attributes make a good companion plant? Short growth habits? Should it be an understory plant? Wide ranging root growth? How much does it matter if you have short plants that grow en mass but then flower and fill your soil with seeds?

From what I've seen so far, by the time the canopy fills in during mid-late veg the covers aren't allowed enough time to get too big. The lack of light makes them die back naturally pretty much. I've grown barley grass before, and that needs a lot of maintenance just to keep under control so I don't use that anymore. The plants loved that stuff though, I grew it out before transplanting in a 2 gallon template and they immediately formed a relationship with the barley roots upon transplant. I think that's why they took off so fast last run...

Since then I've used BAS's 40% clover blend and it worked well but I didn't like the Essex Rape broadleaves hogging up all the space in my containers. He also put barley in the mix and that was annoying to manage because it was the only plant that grew faster than the rest. If I were to run that mix without the Essex and Barley then I'd be happy I think. For now I'm trying out this crimson clover, mainly for it's N fixation but partly because I love the way it looks during bloom

I like to take my veg a little on the later side of things to fill in my canopy and to deliver the N from the dying green mulch before the onset of flowering. I try to flip lights a week or two after I see it die back for the most part. The roots should only help the cause; tilling as they dig deeper in search for food. Then when they decompose there are all those little passage ways still in place to provide structure for the soil - or at least that's how I would think it to be.

 

[Team Microbe]

I just havent understoud why employ crimson clover that should be tall plants.. while there are other kinds of crimson that dont grow so high .. infact my original question to TM was how he manage the crimson clover that can reach 50 cm heigth

It's unlikely that they'll get the chance to grow to that height, the canopy will be filling in soon and whatever is there will soon die back into the top layer (I'm guessing). I hope some stick around and get to bloom, maybe they'll be the ones peaking up through the cracks between the leaves. God damn I love this shit

 

[CimeTempestose]

Ahh. Makes sense. Made sense before in retrospect, just wasn't putting the Legos together.

Eh, you could periodically reseed and mow I suppose. Wee little push mower would do the trick. Tried it a few times before going with the inert mulch, but I'm inherently lazy.

There's always micro clover. Seeds probably stupid expensive comparatively speaking........

It's unlikely that they'll get the chance to grow to that height, the canopy will be filling in soon and whatever is there will soon die back into the top layer (I'm guessing). I hope some stick around and get to bloom, maybe they'll be the ones peaking up through the cracks between the leaves. God damn I love this shit

got the point, thank you both